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RED ALERT! to all alzheimers victims...
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"John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hello, John I passed my amateur extra, 1st phone, and 2nd telegraph in 1966. After letting all my tickets expire, I simply re-tested and passed with no study my amateur extra (20 wpm) in 1993 as well as my GROL (which is considerably simpler than the old 1st phone). I have worked with a lot of surface mount technology, computers, programming languages, and still know pi to 100 places. What amazes me is that folks think that if you have an education that is 15 years old or more or possess a license issued more than 15 years ago, then you can't possibly be up-to-date. Sounds like you've got earlyheimers disease to me :)) With all due regard from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Jim:
I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hello, John I passed my amateur extra, 1st phone, and 2nd telegraph in 1966. After letting all my tickets expire, I simply re-tested and passed with no study my amateur extra (20 wpm) in 1993 as well as my GROL (which is considerably simpler than the old 1st phone). I have worked with a lot of surface mount technology, computers, programming languages, and still know pi to 100 places. What amazes me is that folks think that if you have an education that is 15 years old or more or possess a license issued more than 15 years ago, then you can't possibly be up-to-date. Sounds like you've got earlyheimers disease to me :)) With all due regard from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
http://www.eham.net/articles/9587
John "John Smith" wrote in message ... Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hello, John I passed my amateur extra, 1st phone, and 2nd telegraph in 1966. After letting all my tickets expire, I simply re-tested and passed with no study my amateur extra (20 wpm) in 1993 as well as my GROL (which is considerably simpler than the old 1st phone). I have worked with a lot of surface mount technology, computers, programming languages, and still know pi to 100 places. What amazes me is that folks think that if you have an education that is 15 years old or more or possess a license issued more than 15 years ago, then you can't possibly be up-to-date. Sounds like you've got earlyheimers disease to me :)) With all due regard from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
John Smith wrote:
Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks-- If your views weren't so narrow, you might find what those 60 somethings have to say is interesting. I suppose that when you get to be 60+ you will of course be absolutely enchanting. |
I suppose everyone has something to say...
We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... John "Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks-- If your views weren't so narrow, you might find what those 60 somethings have to say is interesting. I suppose that when you get to be 60+ you will of course be absolutely enchanting. |
"John Smith" wrote I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. My impression is that hams are getting younger all the time. Couple years ago most hams were older than I, now seems most are younger than I am. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
So...
Maybe soon you will be the oldest ham alive? John "KXHB" wrote in message ink.net... "John Smith" wrote I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. My impression is that hams are getting younger all the time. Couple years ago most hams were older than I, now seems most are younger than I am. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
John Smith wrote: I suppose everyone has something to say... We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... John, you are showing signs of being an ageist. A person's ability to do a job is not specifically related to their age. That is an old paradigm. In fact, in the technical fields, there is a dramatic lack of young Americans. So if the geezers have that "death grip" on the reins removed, there likely won't be anyone to take it up. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Michael:
So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." I find that similar to, "Well, the neighbors paper wasn't delivered--same as ours. And, their toilet is plugged up--just like ours, nothing to worry about." And, that is EXACTLY a very-good example of why I say younger minds need to be called to play here--with more energy and willing to face up to truths and take on these problems. John "Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: I suppose everyone has something to say... We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... John, you are showing signs of being an ageist. A person's ability to do a job is not specifically related to their age. That is an old paradigm. In fact, in the technical fields, there is a dramatic lack of young Americans. So if the geezers have that "death grip" on the reins removed, there likely won't be anyone to take it up. - Mike KB3EIA - |
John Smith wrote:
So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." I find that similar to, "Well, the neighbors paper wasn't delivered--same as ours. And, their toilet is plugged up--just like ours, nothing to worry about." And, that is EXACTLY a very-good example of why I say younger minds need to be called to play here--with more energy and willing to face up to truths and take on these problems. Good plan. At least your newspaper might be delivered and your toilet might work. Dave K8MN |
John Smith wrote:
I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks-- To a narrow minded simpleton like you, that's probably true. |
John Smith wrote:
I suppose everyone has something to say... ....and our problem is to determine whether it is worth listening. We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. "Younger" doesn't necessarily mean an improvement. Then you need to define "more capable". You need to explain why younger and older can't co-exist. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... Your agenda is given away when you use terms like "grizzled old" (maybe you meant "grizzled, old") and "death-grip". Finally, you'll have to establish as fact that there is a buggy and that it is heading for a cliff. Dave K8MN |
John Smith wrote:
Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. That's a big leap. Remember when your were 21? Yes And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? No How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? No Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I'm not quite "that" old and wasn't blind then or now. I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... So you've continued the same flawed views of others that you had as a twenty-one-year-old. Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You don't seem to have offered any proof of your statement. You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... It doesn't look like a fit, given the gaping holes in your logic. You continue to play the troll. Dave K8MN |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hey John! Did you notice the * DATE * of the above referenced article........? "April 01 2004 " Get a clue doofus! ....amazing eh folks? They quote an April 01 article from 2004 - THAT'S LAST YEAR! "alzheimers victims..." (?) Better go look in da mirror bunkie! ; ) |
John Smith wrote:
Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Not a valid assumption, John. Remember when your were 21? Yep. I remember all the way back to when I was 3 years old. And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? I don't remember older people that way at all, from when I was 21. Or any other age. Sure, when I was 21, someone who was 51 looked "old". That's natural - someone who is 21 looks very young to me now. But they did not look like they "had one foot in the grave", nor "were preserved in formaldehyde". Just older. A few were uninteresting old grumps. Others were *very* interesting to chat with, talk to, learn from, spend time with. When I was attending the University of Pennsylvania in the early-mid 1970s, there was one professor who was absolutely adored by all of us EE students. He was Professor Cornelius Weygandt, who taught a number of courses like Electrodynamics and Power Systems. He was at least 70 at the time and looked ancient to us. But he had an energy that, for lack of a better word, was pure electricity. He'd walk into class with a half-sheet of paper on which was written a complex problem. He'd draw the problem on the board and then proceed to show us how to solve it. No notes, no books, no calculators, no slide rule, just his own knowledge. His explanations were clear and precise, making complex concepts clear and understandable to all. We would toss variations on the problems at him, and he'd solve the variations too, with no preparation at all. One time in Power Systems he gave us a homework problem from the book. Looked simple but the answer made no sense no matter how we solved it. The book had a misprint, and the numbers given could not exist in reality. Of course the *real* lesson was to check your data. When some students protested, he asked "Do you mean you trust everything that's written in books without question? Next thing you'll tell me is that you trust everything that comes out of a computer!" Lesson learned. Sometimes (outside of class) we could get him to tell stories of when he was our age (he'd graduated from the same school in 1921) or his work on the Differential Analyzer. Great stuff. He's just one example - I have many more. Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? No. But there are none so blind as those who will not see. I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks to *you*, maybe. Not to me. --there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Consider that the problem may be *your* perception and interaction with them. I know plenty of interesting people in their '60s, '70s, '80s, even some in their '90s. Plus plenty of interesting younger people. Their different perspectives are illuminating - all of them. And if people are living longer, and staying healthy longer, then there's no reason for them to step aside just because they're old. Ever hear the phrase "60 is the new 40" or some such? Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... There's a lot more reasons than money. Sometimes a younger woman wants a daddy figure. Sometimes she wants someone who's more experienced, mature and stable. And yes, sometimes it's the money. There are also men who prefer older women, for similar reasons. I suggest you rent the film "Harold and Maude". (no, it's not about Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore). You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... From what I see, all ages have something to contribute - if they want to. And if those of other ages are willing to listen. Take a look at the comments to the various restructuring proposals - both the 18 current ones and the 1998 one that led to the changes of 2000. There were fewer than 2500 comments in 1998. I'm not sure of the number of comments to the 18 current proposals (they're all long past their comment periods) but in total there are only a few thousand. And support for continued Morse Code testing is in the majority! All those people who supposedly don't accept the Morse Code test - yet they cannot even bother to comment to FCC. Say - if you really believe older folks should step aside, maybe *you* should step aside for a younger guy like me! Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hello, John I passed my amateur extra, 1st phone, and 2nd telegraph in 1966. After letting all my tickets expire, I simply re-tested and passed with no study my amateur extra (20 wpm) in 1993 as well as my GROL (which is considerably simpler than the old 1st phone). I have worked with a lot of surface mount technology, computers, programming languages, and still know pi to 100 places. What amazes me is that folks think that if you have an education that is 15 years old or more or possess a license issued more than 15 years ago, then you can't possibly be up-to-date. Sounds like you've got earlyheimers disease to me :)) I passed the Extra in 1970 - at age 16. Graduated with BSEE in 1976 and MSEE in 1992. But my education isn't 15 years old, because it's an ongoing thing. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dave:
Ohhh, younger is much better, means you will still have hams left when the old ones are SK (i.e., not still moving about above ground.) .... also, it will bring a breath of fresh air to the hobby--anyone on the bands know we suffer an overload of people older than 40 and need some new blood... John "Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... John Smith wrote: I suppose everyone has something to say... ...and our problem is to determine whether it is worth listening. We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. "Younger" doesn't necessarily mean an improvement. Then you need to define "more capable". You need to explain why younger and older can't co-exist. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... Your agenda is given away when you use terms like "grizzled old" (maybe you meant "grizzled, old") and "death-grip". Finally, you'll have to establish as fact that there is a buggy and that it is heading for a cliff. Dave K8MN |
Dave:
It is quite obvious, anyone who does not agree with you is a troll--well, in you interpretation of the word... I stand behind those words you have fault with. I think they are right on and the truth. I know some think that simply denying them for a sufficient length of time will cause them to go away... .... all we have to do now is watch declining numbers, take tally on the oldsters about and lack of youngsters and the truth is quite obvious. Really, no argument is needed. What the future looks like has already been stated. Now the proof which is hidden in the pudding only needs to be given a sufficient length of time to come out. As long as we are watching and able to argue for changes to improve and save the hobby, I have faith in the younger people coming along--they will eventually make the right decisions when they come into power... John "Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... John Smith wrote: Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. That's a big leap. Remember when your were 21? Yes And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? No How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? No Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I'm not quite "that" old and wasn't blind then or now. I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... So you've continued the same flawed views of others that you had as a twenty-one-year-old. Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You don't seem to have offered any proof of your statement. You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... It doesn't look like a fit, given the gaping holes in your logic. You continue to play the troll. Dave K8MN |
N2EY:
Well, it is quite obvious it is NOT as it was when I was younger--you are correct--back then there were real men/women who knew how to interact with youngsters and improve the hobby--and give a welcome and "hand-up" to the newbie's. Now, today, you see an example of the problem right here. The older generation has not learned how to gain the caliber, stature and wisdom of those who gave them a hand up. This new bunch is a "good ole boys" club with a closed door policy. They are a self-serving bunch of self-centered "small men/women." Long as they can rag chew and rant their personal issues, likes, wants, etc they will go to their doom--it is just up to thinking minds to make sure they don't carry the hobby to doom with them... They lack sorely when gauged against the those of yesteryear... hopefully those who will now take the reins will learn from these lessons and be able to correct this blight which has descended on this once great hobby... John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Not a valid assumption, John. Remember when your were 21? Yep. I remember all the way back to when I was 3 years old. And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? I don't remember older people that way at all, from when I was 21. Or any other age. Sure, when I was 21, someone who was 51 looked "old". That's natural - someone who is 21 looks very young to me now. But they did not look like they "had one foot in the grave", nor "were preserved in formaldehyde". Just older. A few were uninteresting old grumps. Others were *very* interesting to chat with, talk to, learn from, spend time with. When I was attending the University of Pennsylvania in the early-mid 1970s, there was one professor who was absolutely adored by all of us EE students. He was Professor Cornelius Weygandt, who taught a number of courses like Electrodynamics and Power Systems. He was at least 70 at the time and looked ancient to us. But he had an energy that, for lack of a better word, was pure electricity. He'd walk into class with a half-sheet of paper on which was written a complex problem. He'd draw the problem on the board and then proceed to show us how to solve it. No notes, no books, no calculators, no slide rule, just his own knowledge. His explanations were clear and precise, making complex concepts clear and understandable to all. We would toss variations on the problems at him, and he'd solve the variations too, with no preparation at all. One time in Power Systems he gave us a homework problem from the book. Looked simple but the answer made no sense no matter how we solved it. The book had a misprint, and the numbers given could not exist in reality. Of course the *real* lesson was to check your data. When some students protested, he asked "Do you mean you trust everything that's written in books without question? Next thing you'll tell me is that you trust everything that comes out of a computer!" Lesson learned. Sometimes (outside of class) we could get him to tell stories of when he was our age (he'd graduated from the same school in 1921) or his work on the Differential Analyzer. Great stuff. He's just one example - I have many more. Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? No. But there are none so blind as those who will not see. I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks to *you*, maybe. Not to me. --there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Consider that the problem may be *your* perception and interaction with them. I know plenty of interesting people in their '60s, '70s, '80s, even some in their '90s. Plus plenty of interesting younger people. Their different perspectives are illuminating - all of them. And if people are living longer, and staying healthy longer, then there's no reason for them to step aside just because they're old. Ever hear the phrase "60 is the new 40" or some such? Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... There's a lot more reasons than money. Sometimes a younger woman wants a daddy figure. Sometimes she wants someone who's more experienced, mature and stable. And yes, sometimes it's the money. There are also men who prefer older women, for similar reasons. I suggest you rent the film "Harold and Maude". (no, it's not about Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore). You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... From what I see, all ages have something to contribute - if they want to. And if those of other ages are willing to listen. Take a look at the comments to the various restructuring proposals - both the 18 current ones and the 1998 one that led to the changes of 2000. There were fewer than 2500 comments in 1998. I'm not sure of the number of comments to the 18 current proposals (they're all long past their comment periods) but in total there are only a few thousand. And support for continued Morse Code testing is in the majority! All those people who supposedly don't accept the Morse Code test - yet they cannot even bother to comment to FCC. Say - if you really believe older folks should step aside, maybe *you* should step aside for a younger guy like me! Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hello, John I passed my amateur extra, 1st phone, and 2nd telegraph in 1966. After letting all my tickets expire, I simply re-tested and passed with no study my amateur extra (20 wpm) in 1993 as well as my GROL (which is considerably simpler than the old 1st phone). I have worked with a lot of surface mount technology, computers, programming languages, and still know pi to 100 places. What amazes me is that folks think that if you have an education that is 15 years old or more or possess a license issued more than 15 years ago, then you can't possibly be up-to-date. Sounds like you've got earlyheimers disease to me :)) I passed the Extra in 1970 - at age 16. Graduated with BSEE in 1976 and MSEE in 1992. But my education isn't 15 years old, because it's an ongoing thing. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Hey Doofus:
The same problems exist which existed a year ago--NO PROGRESS! Get a clue... That is as accurate today as the day it was written--that IS my point--some here are stuck in the twilight zone--no improvements... John "Maritime Wheeeeee" wrote in message roups.com... "John Smith" wrote in message ... http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2004/04/01/1/ John Hey John! Did you notice the * DATE * of the above referenced article........? "April 01 2004 " Get a clue doofus! ...amazing eh folks? They quote an April 01 article from 2004 - THAT'S LAST YEAR! "alzheimers victims..." (?) Better go look in da mirror bunkie! ; ) |
John Smith wrote:
Michael: So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." Quotes even! I don't recall saying "we have nothing to worry about" We do, and ham radio is waay down on the list of problems that occur due to the lack of US citizens going for technical careers. And it isn't going to be fixed by Ham radio. - Mike KB3EIA - |
it is proper to quote anything which has been said...
I would think it is obvious it is what I am saying that I am quoting... I am asking a question, and giving what I hear as the interpretation of his thinking... .... you guys just don't get it do you? My whole point is that all you are about is personal attacks and not about any real discussion--to which you supply another personal attack as if that doesn't prove my point.... get a clue.... you constantly demonstrate that you are self-serving and into attacking any person who presents any part of the problem--since you benefit from the existing problem... John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Michael: So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." Quotes even! I don't recall saying "we have nothing to worry about" We do, and ham radio is waay down on the list of problems that occur due to the lack of US citizens going for technical careers. And it isn't going to be fixed by Ham radio. - Mike KB3EIA - |
John Smith wrote:
Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Aha! John, you have an age thing going on here. When I was a young 'un I did indeed notice that my elders looked different than me. They looked bigger than me too. But other than that, it was no big deal. And they definitely were not uninteresting. My Grandfather got me started in electronics, giving me old car radios, power supplies, and showing me how to fix them. Great memories, that. Not a trace of the dreary picture you paint of older people. A bad path to go on, John. Lord willing and the crick don't rise, you will be ancient some day. I hear despite the drawbacks, it sure beats the alternative. Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since. You must be either pre-judging these older folk, or hanging out with the wrong crowd! ;^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
John Smith wrote:
it is proper to quote anything which has been said... That was nothing I ever said. Is quoting things I never said proper? I would think it is obvious it is what I am saying that I am quoting... That isn't how quotes work. I don't quote myself, save when I look up something I wrote or said earlier. I am asking a question, and giving what I hear as the interpretation of his thinking... No need for interpretation needed, as far as I can see. ... you guys just don't get it do you? My whole point is that all you are about is personal attacks and not about any real discussion--to which you supply another personal attack as if that doesn't prove my point.... get a clue.... you constantly demonstrate that you are self-serving and into attacking any person who presents any part of the problem--since you benefit from the existing problem... What personal attack, John Smith? If you interpret my responses as a personal attack, then what on earth are *your* missives? But if that is how ya are, okay. I can quite botherin' ya. - Mike KB3EIA - John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Michael: So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." Quotes even! I don't recall saying "we have nothing to worry about" We do, and ham radio is waay down on the list of problems that occur due to the lack of US citizens going for technical careers. And it isn't going to be fixed by Ham radio. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: I suppose everyone has something to say... We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... John, you are showing signs of being an ageist. A person's ability to do a job is not specifically related to their age. That is an old paradigm. In fact, in the technical fields, there is a dramatic lack of young Americans. So if the geezers have that "death grip" on the reins removed, there likely won't be anyone to take it up. - Mike KB3EIA - Hello, Mike There is a dearth of young folks in technical fields as the religious right has no (perceived) need for them. Our engineering is now done in India and manufacturing in China. I've had two small appliances now that failed in 6 months or less. The "warrantee" is you send them the bad unit and they give you a replacement - and half price. So, they simply sold another unit. Meanwhile, I note we are quite a bit down the line in life expectancy. We have a much higher incidence of infant death than many others. I'm tired of hearing how great we are. We are leaving a rather poor legacy to the young folks. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... John Hello, John Even worse is an old guy hanging out with kids. Did you see where that guy is suspected of many 10s of thousands of cases of abuse? Nah, gimme a few acres in the Northwest with a lake or stream nearby and a fishing pole. I fear that this country has expanded beyond its' capability of supporting its' own population (or, rather, will shortly). We consume 1/4 of the world's oil output whilst the administration continues tax breaks for SUVs over 3 tons. To heck with the cost of gas; cut welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, education, social security, the VA .... Just make sure the very wealthy continue to pay *less* percentage than folks making 80 to 100 grand per year. I'd give it a few more years before many morons will understand what has been happening. Then there will be a revolution at the polls. Unfortunately, if another party wins by too high a margin, they may also feel they can play loose and free (as the Republicans currently are doing). What we need are some moderates. Very hard to find. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... N2EY: Well, it is quite obvious it is NOT as it was when I was younger--you are correct--back then there were real men/women who knew how to interact with youngsters and improve the hobby--and give a welcome and "hand-up" to the newbie's. Now, today, you see an example of the problem right here. The older generation has not learned how to gain the caliber, stature and wisdom of those who gave them a hand up. This new bunch is a "good ole boys" club with a closed door policy. They are a self-serving bunch of self-centered "small men/women." Long as they can rag chew and rant their personal issues, likes, wants, etc they will go to their doom--it is just up to thinking minds to make sure they don't carry the hobby to doom with them... They lack sorely when gauged against the those of yesteryear... hopefully those who will now take the reins will learn from these lessons and be able to correct this blight which has descended on this once great hobby... John Hello, John Certainly there are a few curmudgeons, but the hams I know well have been always willing to help youngsters. I think the biggest problem we've had is this code/no code argument that never seems to die. Myself, I wouldn't mind a retest for everyone rather than a free pass every 10 years. That might be an interesting "equalizer". 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Mike:
Let me break this to you gently, what you have to say is just not important in the whole scheme of things--a year from now we will see what we all feel as whole--after debate and argument... I didn't come here for you to teach me english--rant on if you must--just know it is ignored... No, there is little need for interpretation of what you say, it is obvious: 1) there is no problem 2) even if a problem exists--no reason to worry 3) we need not do anything 4) I (Mike, meaning YOU) am happy, everyone else shut up and go away 5) status quo is all which matters 6) etc, etc, etc I don't make personal attacks--however, if the truth offends someone, so be it... John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: it is proper to quote anything which has been said... That was nothing I ever said. Is quoting things I never said proper? I would think it is obvious it is what I am saying that I am quoting... That isn't how quotes work. I don't quote myself, save when I look up something I wrote or said earlier. I am asking a question, and giving what I hear as the interpretation of his thinking... No need for interpretation needed, as far as I can see. ... you guys just don't get it do you? My whole point is that all you are about is personal attacks and not about any real discussion--to which you supply another personal attack as if that doesn't prove my point.... get a clue.... you constantly demonstrate that you are self-serving and into attacking any person who presents any part of the problem--since you benefit from the existing problem... What personal attack, John Smith? If you interpret my responses as a personal attack, then what on earth are *your* missives? But if that is how ya are, okay. I can quite botherin' ya. - Mike KB3EIA - John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Michael: So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." Quotes even! I don't recall saying "we have nothing to worry about" We do, and ham radio is waay down on the list of problems that occur due to the lack of US citizens going for technical careers. And it isn't going to be fixed by Ham radio. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike:
You just don't get it, do you... you can hand off the reins in a dignified method which signifies an intelligent person--or, you can just grow old and have them yanked from your cold dead fingers--either way you dream a fools dream if you don't think the world renews itself with coming generations... .... all which is changes, either way--is how you are viewed... John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Aha! John, you have an age thing going on here. When I was a young 'un I did indeed notice that my elders looked different than me. They looked bigger than me too. But other than that, it was no big deal. And they definitely were not uninteresting. My Grandfather got me started in electronics, giving me old car radios, power supplies, and showing me how to fix them. Great memories, that. Not a trace of the dreary picture you paint of older people. A bad path to go on, John. Lord willing and the crick don't rise, you will be ancient some day. I hear despite the drawbacks, it sure beats the alternative. Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since. You must be either pre-judging these older folk, or hanging out with the wrong crowd! ;^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
Jim:
Well for gawds sake... I would trust NO ONE without supervision around children--not even MOTHERS or CPS WORKERS!!!... .... we have quite a problem with the women school marms here "boffing" the young lads in their cars at lunch time on school grounds too--no reason to stop educating children--but an EXCELLENT reason to imprison these perverts!!! John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Jim: I just took it for granted that everyone experienced life a lot like me. Remember when your were 21? And how back then 50 year old people looked like they had one foot in the grave? How 60 year old people looked as if they were preserved in formaldehyde? And, were just about as interesting to chat with as window drapes? Now that you are old--suddenly you got blind? I am 55 and people even 65 are about as interesting as rocks--there is that kind of difference which occurred in the 60's and has been occurring ever since... Get real--the only reason some old geezer type will have a younger woman on his arm is for the money.... You can extrapolate on that to figure out how it applies here at amateur radio... John Hello, John Even worse is an old guy hanging out with kids. Did you see where that guy is suspected of many 10s of thousands of cases of abuse? Nah, gimme a few acres in the Northwest with a lake or stream nearby and a fishing pole. I fear that this country has expanded beyond its' capability of supporting its' own population (or, rather, will shortly). We consume 1/4 of the world's oil output whilst the administration continues tax breaks for SUVs over 3 tons. To heck with the cost of gas; cut welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, education, social security, the VA .... Just make sure the very wealthy continue to pay *less* percentage than folks making 80 to 100 grand per year. I'd give it a few more years before many morons will understand what has been happening. Then there will be a revolution at the polls. Unfortunately, if another party wins by too high a margin, they may also feel they can play loose and free (as the Republicans currently are doing). What we need are some moderates. Very hard to find. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Mike:
I say to you, "This is a proper quote." I have said in the past, "This is a proper quote." I will say in the future, "This is a proper quote." If you would ask me about the weather, I would say, "It is hot." I think, "You are a self-centered person who cannot see further than you ancient nose." I believe your philosophy is, "To hell with the younger people... all they are good for is to morse with me and keep my old butt company." I say the world if for the living and we all will soon be dead, I think I hear you saying, "I am all which matters." John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: it is proper to quote anything which has been said... That was nothing I ever said. Is quoting things I never said proper? I would think it is obvious it is what I am saying that I am quoting... That isn't how quotes work. I don't quote myself, save when I look up something I wrote or said earlier. I am asking a question, and giving what I hear as the interpretation of his thinking... No need for interpretation needed, as far as I can see. ... you guys just don't get it do you? My whole point is that all you are about is personal attacks and not about any real discussion--to which you supply another personal attack as if that doesn't prove my point.... get a clue.... you constantly demonstrate that you are self-serving and into attacking any person who presents any part of the problem--since you benefit from the existing problem... What personal attack, John Smith? If you interpret my responses as a personal attack, then what on earth are *your* missives? But if that is how ya are, okay. I can quite botherin' ya. - Mike KB3EIA - John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Michael: So, your logic goes something like this, "That problem exists in other places too--we have nothing to worry about." Quotes even! I don't recall saying "we have nothing to worry about" We do, and ham radio is waay down on the list of problems that occur due to the lack of US citizens going for technical careers. And it isn't going to be fixed by Ham radio. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"John Smith" wrote ....so younger and more capable minds .... Gee, and I always thought that experience was "the best teacher". Silly me! Turns out younger is more capable. By that tortured logic, we ought to be issuing call signs on birth certificates so we can capture the REALLY capable minds! 73, de Hans, K0HB |
KXHB:
Yes, that is always the trouble with those getting their "15 minutes of fame"--they NEVER leave gracefully... frown .... time for new ideas and motivated minds with energy to move up front... .... all walkers, wheelchairs and crutches to the back, next to those clutching bottles of laxatives, blood pressure medication, heart burn medication, viagra, etc, etc... if you forget your name--don't worry--a name tag has been placed on your chest to remind you... John "KXHB" wrote in message ink.net... "John Smith" wrote ....so younger and more capable minds .... Gee, and I always thought that experience was "the best teacher". Silly me! Turns out younger is more capable. By that tortured logic, we ought to be issuing call signs on birth certificates so we can capture the REALLY capable minds! 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Even worse is an old guy hanging out with kids. Neatest "old guy" I know (pushing 80-something now) is a WW-II vet who spends all his summer taking kids (dependents of deployed CT military) on day trips fishing on his dime. He feels useful, the kids line up for weeks to get on his "list", the deployed warriors feel someone "cares", and everyone wins. It's called "putting something back". This guy deserves a medal, but unfortunately if he's identified publicly some cinic like you would do your best to rain on his good deed. DNE |
"W2DNE" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Even worse is an old guy hanging out with kids. Neatest "old guy" I know (pushing 80-something now) is a WW-II vet who spends all his summer taking kids (dependents of deployed CT military) on day trips fishing on his dime. He feels useful, the kids line up for weeks to get on his "list", the deployed warriors feel someone "cares", and everyone wins. It's called "putting something back". This guy deserves a medal, but unfortunately if he's identified publicly some cinic like you would do your best to rain on his good deed. DNE Point well made. I was really concerned with some that cause many problems for a lot of folks. My elmer, back in 1961, was Russ, W2ZS. He was in his mid 60s then and passed away in the mid 70s. Heck of a great guy. Certainly there are good folks, young and old. Some of the things that have happened of late will likely keep some of the older folks from trying to get involved, as well as keeping some of the youngsters away in fear as well. I'm not always that careless with my comments; I have had my rabies shots :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Jim Hampton wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: I suppose everyone has something to say... We are experiencing a time in our history where people are living a lot longer than they ever used to--and in better health. This is causing a problem in how to get them moved aside so younger and more capable minds can grab the reins. However, those grizzled old hands hands have a death-grip while the buggy heads for the cliff... John, you are showing signs of being an ageist. A person's ability to do a job is not specifically related to their age. That is an old paradigm. In fact, in the technical fields, there is a dramatic lack of young Americans. So if the geezers have that "death grip" on the reins removed, there likely won't be anyone to take it up. - Mike KB3EIA - Hello, Mike There is a dearth of young folks in technical fields as the religious right has no (perceived) need for them. Interesting topic drift, but yes you are correct. It is of great interest that the righteous religious have a love/hate relationship with technology. While they are very happy to use the technology that exists to subdue the "enemy", they are most uncomfortable with any new technology. The problem is that the mindset of those who would pursue new technology is in general anathema to them. Our engineering is now done in India and manufacturing in China. I've had two small appliances now that failed in 6 months or less. The "warrantee" is you send them the bad unit and they give you a replacement - and half price. So, they simply sold another unit. Sweet, eh? - Mike KB3EIA - |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Let me break this to you gently, what you have to say is just not important in the whole scheme of things--a year from now we will see what we all feel as whole--after debate and argument... I didn't come here for you to teach me english--rant on if you must--just know it is ignored... No, there is little need for interpretation of what you say, it is obvious: 1) there is no problem 2) even if a problem exists--no reason to worry 3) we need not do anything 4) I (Mike, meaning YOU) am happy, everyone else shut up and go away 5) status quo is all which matters 6) etc, etc, etc I don't make personal attacks--however, if the truth offends someone, so be it... John However looking in the wrong places for solutions won't solve the problem either. You want to repeat solutions that haven't worked. You ignore the concept that the average age of our entire population is rising. You ignore the idea that radio will only appeal to certain types of people. You ignore the fact that many people simply don't know about ham radio. You ignore the fact that all hobby activities are having trouble getting new members because now everyone is split over more activities than ever before and that it's not unique to ham radio. You think one "magic bullet" (eliminating the code test) will fix the problem. Changing the testing requirements are highly unlikely to cause a significant impact because they do not address the main issues. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... KXHB: Yes, that is always the trouble with those getting their "15 minutes of fame"--they NEVER leave gracefully... frown ... time for new ideas and motivated minds with energy to move up front... ... all walkers, wheelchairs and crutches to the back, next to those clutching bottles of laxatives, blood pressure medication, heart burn medication, viagra, etc, etc... if you forget your name--don't worry--a name tag has been placed on your chest to remind you... John If I had a buck for all the mistakes the fellows with "... time for new ideas and motivated minds with energy" made and that I had to straighten out, I'd be rich. Every activity needs a BLEND OF OLD, NEW, and IN-BETWEEN to get the best results. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE "KXHB" wrote in message ink.net... "John Smith" wrote ....so younger and more capable minds .... Gee, and I always thought that experience was "the best teacher". Silly me! Turns out younger is more capable. By that tortured logic, we ought to be issuing call signs on birth certificates so we can capture the REALLY capable minds! 73, de Hans, K0HB |
KØHB wrote:
"John Smith" wrote ....so younger and more capable minds .... Gee, and I always thought that experience was "the best teacher". Silly me! Turns out younger is more capable. By that tortured logic, we ought to be issuing call signs on birth certificates so we can capture the REALLY capable minds! Didn't' you know, Hans - there are a brand new set of laws of physics now - and the big thing is that they can only be understood by those under 25..... - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Let me break this to you gently, what you have to say is just not important in the whole scheme of things--a year from now we will see what we all feel as whole--after debate and argument... I didn't come here for you to teach me english--rant on if you must--just know it is ignored... No, there is little need for interpretation of what you say, it is obvious: 1) there is no problem 2) even if a problem exists--no reason to worry 3) we need not do anything 4) I (Mike, meaning YOU) am happy, everyone else shut up and go away 5) status quo is all which matters 6) etc, etc, etc I don't make personal attacks--however, if the truth offends someone, so be it... John Dee steps into the ring and spars for a couple seconds......... However looking in the wrong places for solutions won't solve the problem either. You want to repeat solutions that haven't worked. She lands a quick right. You ignore the concept that the average age of our entire population is rising. Quick feint... You ignore the idea that radio will only appeal to certain types of people. A few hits to the midsection.... You ignore the fact that many people simply don't know about ham radio. another feint.. You ignore the fact that all hobby activities are having trouble getting new members because now everyone is split over more activities than ever before and that it's not unique to ham radio. Followed by a quick hit to the head. You think one "magic bullet" (eliminating the code test) will fix the problem. Stunning the opponent, who falls to the canvas..... Changing the testing requirements are highly unlikely to cause a significant impact because they do not address the main issues. And at last, a scene reminding me of the famous shot of Muhammad Ali standing over Jim Frasier.... And since we are making sports comparisons, Game, Set, Match, Dee. - Mike KB3EIA - (who is sitting here tonight, listening to my newly resurrected Heathkit HW-22 tube rig, while using my other radio to work psk-31, and typing a few notes via the internet....) It's all good...... - Mike KB3EIA - |
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