Kim wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).


After re-reading the NPRM, I'm no longer so sure of that as I was. The
appendix shows the new wording of the changed sections and the sections
that
show privileges have not been changed. So it may be that the FCC intends
to
keep the distinction between flavors of Tech and make the codeless
Technicians upgrade to get any HF privileges. Their extensive discussion
sections also seem to support that. Thirty pages including footnotes is a
lot of details to digest.

If approach is true, there are a lot of Technicians in for a shock.

Anyway, I think the FCC needs to clarify that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Ah! Here it is...wouldn't ya know it? OK, so you're thinking the NPRM in
its submitted form, if accepted and passed, would mean that
Codeless Technicians would have to upgrade?

I agree with you--lots of folks in for a shock. I am now
intrigued enough
to look through there and see what it says.

My initial thoughts are that, to do so, would seem to open up a whole can of
worms from a administration perspective. I mean, as it is, I
have to
produce the actual piece of paper to prove that I have the 5wpm endorsement
(if I wanted to upgrade to General under the current licensing structure).
That is, if I understand the "way it works." LOL

That's how it works now, Kim. But that piece of paper could be
an old license that says "Technician Plus", or a page from an
old Callbook, etc. Or a listing from the FCC database showing your
former license class as "Technician Plus".

So, there'd be more affected than just the No-Code techs, I
think. For
instance, I couldn't begin to even find my endorsement and I am not sure
I'll ever be able to. That would mean, essentially, I am a
Codeless Tech?

Since the changes of April 2000, FCC has left it up to the Technician
licensee (!) to retain documentation that they
are/were Tech Pluses.

It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

Of course the "simple" solution is to upgrade to General or Extra.

73 de Jim N2EY

wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite
a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except
that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges
but
not in name).


After re-reading the NPRM, I'm no longer so sure of that as I was. The
appendix shows the new wording of the changed sections and the sections
that
show privileges have not been changed. So it may be that the FCC
intends
to
keep the distinction between flavors of Tech and make the codeless
Technicians upgrade to get any HF privileges. Their extensive
discussion
sections also seem to support that. Thirty pages including footnotes
is a
lot of details to digest.

If approach is true, there are a lot of Technicians in for a shock.

Anyway, I think the FCC needs to clarify that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Ah! Here it is...wouldn't ya know it? OK, so you're thinking the NPRM
in
its submitted form, if accepted and passed, would mean that
Codeless Technicians would have to upgrade?

I agree with you--lots of folks in for a shock. I am now
intrigued enough
to look through there and see what it says.

My initial thoughts are that, to do so, would seem to open up a whole
can of
worms from a administration perspective. I mean, as it is, I
have to
produce the actual piece of paper to prove that I have the 5wpm
endorsement
(if I wanted to upgrade to General under the current licensing
structure).
That is, if I understand the "way it works." LOL

That's how it works now, Kim. But that piece of paper could be
an old license that says "Technician Plus", or a page from an
old Callbook, etc. Or a listing from the FCC database showing your
former license class as "Technician Plus".

So, there'd be more affected than just the No-Code techs, I
think. For
instance, I couldn't begin to even find my endorsement and I am not
sure
I'll ever be able to. That would mean, essentially, I am a
Codeless Tech?

Since the changes of April 2000, FCC has left it up to the Technician
licensee (!) to retain documentation that they
are/were Tech Pluses.

It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

Which is exactly what the NPRM says now that I've read it several times.
Each "flavor" of Technician maintains its current privileges. To gain
additional privileges will require taking the appropriate written test.
They remark that upgrading will require taking only the "simple" General
written exam.

In other words anyone who wants more privileges than they currently have
will have to take a test.


Of course the "simple" solution is to upgrade to General or Extra.


And as I read the comments in the NPRM, that is exactly what they want
licensees to do rather than give them any freebies at their current grade.
In other words they do not want people to be content with an entry level
license.

73 de Jim N2EY


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

N2EY:

Could the CB'ers get by with a note from their mother? Or, is that too much to
hope for?

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).


After re-reading the NPRM, I'm no longer so sure of that as I was. The
appendix shows the new wording of the changed sections and the sections
that
show privileges have not been changed. So it may be that the FCC intends
to
keep the distinction between flavors of Tech and make the codeless
Technicians upgrade to get any HF privileges. Their extensive discussion
sections also seem to support that. Thirty pages including footnotes is a
lot of details to digest.

If approach is true, there are a lot of Technicians in for a shock.

Anyway, I think the FCC needs to clarify that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Ah! Here it is...wouldn't ya know it? OK, so you're thinking the NPRM in
its submitted form, if accepted and passed, would mean that
Codeless Technicians would have to upgrade?

I agree with you--lots of folks in for a shock. I am now
intrigued enough
to look through there and see what it says.

My initial thoughts are that, to do so, would seem to open up a whole can
of
worms from a administration perspective. I mean, as it is, I
have to
produce the actual piece of paper to prove that I have the 5wpm
endorsement
(if I wanted to upgrade to General under the current licensing structure).
That is, if I understand the "way it works." LOL

That's how it works now, Kim. But that piece of paper could be
an old license that says "Technician Plus", or a page from an
old Callbook, etc. Or a listing from the FCC database showing your
former license class as "Technician Plus".

So, there'd be more affected than just the No-Code techs, I
think. For
instance, I couldn't begin to even find my endorsement and I am not sure
I'll ever be able to. That would mean, essentially, I am a
Codeless Tech?

Since the changes of April 2000, FCC has left it up to the Technician
licensee (!) to retain documentation that they
are/were Tech Pluses.

It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

Of course the "simple" solution is to upgrade to General or Extra.

73 de Jim N2EY

wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
Ah! Here it is...wouldn't ya know it? OK, so you're thinking the NPRM
in
its submitted form, if accepted and passed, would mean that
Codeless Technicians would have to upgrade?

I agree with you--lots of folks in for a shock. I am now
intrigued enough
to look through there and see what it says.

My initial thoughts are that, to do so, would seem to open up a
whole can of worms from an administration perspective.
I mean, as it is, I have to produce the actual
piece of paper to prove that I have the 5wpm endorsement
(if I wanted to upgrade to General under the current licensing
structure).
That is, if I understand the "way it works." LOL

That's how it works now, Kim. But that piece of paper could be
an old license that says "Technician Plus", or a page from an
old Callbook, etc. Or a listing from the FCC database showing your
former license class as "Technician Plus".

So, there'd be more affected than just the No-Code techs, I
think. For
instance, I couldn't begin to even find my endorsement and I am not
sure
I'll ever be able to. That would mean, essentially, I am a
Codeless Tech?

Since the changes of April 2000, FCC has left it up to the Technician
licensee (!) to retain documentation that they
are/were Tech Pluses.

It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

But isn't that exactly what is proposed. Once it becomes the
new regulations (i.e. no code test anymore at all) there really
is no way for a code-less Tech to then become a Tech
with coode since there won't be anymore code tests being
administered.

Of course the "simple" solution is to upgrade to General or Extra.

And since a CSCE is good for a year, many code-less techs
might want to consider getty element 3 so when the new
regs become the rules, they can just go for a paper upgrade
on the day the rules become effective. Lots of Techs and
advanced licensees did that in early 2000 once the new rules
were set to go into place in April of that year.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill Sohl wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
large cut
It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

But isn't that exactly what is proposed. Once it becomes the
new regulations (i.e. no code test anymore at all) there really
is no way for a code-less Tech to then become a Tech
with coode since there won't be anymore code tests being
administered.

OTOH this being the govt it could be the result I hope the FCC will
make it clear in the report and order

Of course the "simple" solution is to upgrade to General or Extra.

And since a CSCE is good for a year, many code-less techs
might want to consider getty element 3 so when the new
regs become the rules, they can just go for a paper upgrade
on the day the rules become effective. Lots of Techs and
advanced licensees did that in early 2000 once the new rules
were set to go into place in April of that year.

I intend personaly to so once the R&O is issued since the FCC may try
and drag its feet, (and if so I expect NCI will try anf hold thier toes
to te fire) or till my wife decides to take her tech test herself so as
to have some reason myself to be there


Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...


Bill Sohl wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
large cut
It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

But isn't that exactly what is proposed. Once it becomes the
new regulations (i.e. no code test anymore at all) there really
is no way for a code-less Tech to then become a Tech
with coode since there won't be anymore code tests being
administered.

OTOH this being the govt it could be the result I hope the FCC will
make it clear in the report and order

In the discussion in the NPRM, they make it clear that they expect any Tech
not having HF privileges (i.e. codeless Techs) to take the General exam and
upgrade to get HF privileges.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...


Bill Sohl wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Kim wrote:
large cut
It would be the height of irony if, in fact, the FCC dropped
Element 1 yet kept non-code-tested Techs off of HF until
they got Generals or Extras.

But isn't that exactly what is proposed. Once it becomes the
new regulations (i.e. no code test anymore at all) there really
is no way for a code-less Tech to then become a Tech
with coode since there won't be anymore code tests being
administered.

OTOH this being the govt it could be the result I hope the FCC will
make it clear in the report and order


I fully agree that they the FCC expect itbut from my reading it is far
from clear that they will require it

In the discussion in the NPRM, they make it clear that they expect any Tech
not having HF privileges (i.e. codeless Techs) to take the General exam and
upgrade to get HF privileges.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:

In the discussion in the NPRM, they make it clear
that they expect any Tech
not having HF privileges (i.e. codeless Techs)
to take the General exam and
upgrade to get HF privileges.

Interesting - in many ways!

For one thing, there would still be two kinds of
Technicians - those with HF and those without.

But more telling would be how many Techs would
get Generals or Extras in order to get HF.

We'd finally see how much of a "barrier" the
5 wpm code test really is/was, by how many
Techs upgrade and how many don't.

The sad part of it is that the recipe for
success is clear from the history, but
some folks don't like to look at history.

Back in 1951 the Novice license was created.
It was a limited term, easy-to-get license
that started the most new hams out on HF CW.

The Novice license ushered in an era of
tremendous growth in US ham radio. There were
perhaps 100,000 hams in 1951, and a dozen years
later there were 2-1/2 times that many - most
of whom had started out as Novices.

But all attempts to reinvent the Novice were rejected by FCC.
Some of those attempts were ill-conceived in detail, but
the basic concept is valid.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY:

Here is a link to the general test, will all the FALSE ANSWERS REMOVED, please,
share this with the techs, day after the code is dropped, let's see how many we
can get to general!
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/generaltest.txt

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dee Flint wrote:

In the discussion in the NPRM, they make it clear
that they expect any Tech
not having HF privileges (i.e. codeless Techs)
to take the General exam and
upgrade to get HF privileges.

Interesting - in many ways!

For one thing, there would still be two kinds of
Technicians - those with HF and those without.

But more telling would be how many Techs would
get Generals or Extras in order to get HF.

We'd finally see how much of a "barrier" the
5 wpm code test really is/was, by how many
Techs upgrade and how many don't.

The sad part of it is that the recipe for
success is clear from the history, but
some folks don't like to look at history.

Back in 1951 the Novice license was created.
It was a limited term, easy-to-get license
that started the most new hams out on HF CW.

The Novice license ushered in an era of
tremendous growth in US ham radio. There were
perhaps 100,000 hams in 1951, and a dozen years
later there were 2-1/2 times that many - most
of whom had started out as Novices.

But all attempts to reinvent the Novice were rejected by FCC.
Some of those attempts were ill-conceived in detail, but
the basic concept is valid.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dee Flint wrote:

In the discussion in the NPRM, they make it clear
that they expect any Tech
not having HF privileges (i.e. codeless Techs)
to take the General exam and
upgrade to get HF privileges.

Interesting - in many ways!

For one thing, there would still be two kinds of
Technicians - those with HF and those without.


Yes there will be. The NPRM bore down heavily on the point that licensees
are expected to continue to develop and learn and thus if they want more
privileges, they show that development by upgrading.

But more telling would be how many Techs would
get Generals or Extras in order to get HF.


I think that will indeed be very interesting. I was plotting the data from
the ah0a site out of curiosity and it is easy to see on a graph the bubble
in 2000 and it is easy to see the fact that it was small and temporary. The
only class that is steadily increasing significantly in numbers is the
Extra.

We'd finally see how much of a "barrier" the
5 wpm code test really is/was, by how many
Techs upgrade and how many don't.


My guess is that at least half the Technicians are inactive and will not
upgrade. Of the remaining portion, there will probably be half that either
don't hear about the change or don't hear that much about the change and so
won't pursue it. There will also be a handful that aren't really interested
in HF and so will not upgrade. Still if only 1/4 of the Techs upgrade in
the next year, it will be quite a burden on the VEs for a while.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE