It's generally agreed that Access BPL will be a bad thing in any urban
radio environment. It's also apparent that way too many commenters
are trying to voice their grievances to the FCC in the wrong place.

FCC 04-29, the NPRM or Notice of Proposed Rule Making, was
released on 23 February 2004 with a 45 day period for Comments
and a total 75 day period for Replies to Comments.

Once an NPRM is released, any previous documentation
(comments, threats, entreaties, etc.) on the same subject are
essentially ignored by the FCC for the purposes of making new
rules indicated in the NPRM. While the website location may
remain open for comment on a subject long after the subject is
closed, those remain just bits on a very large hard drive and do
not have to be looked at by the FCC for any sort of rulemaking.

ET Docket 03-104 was an NOI or Notice Of Inquiry request by the
FCC to get suggested standards and testing for Broadband over
Power Lines (now called "Access BPL"). By the FCC's format,
the first two digits indicate the year of release (in that case 2003).
The comment and reply-to-comment period on 03-104 is long over,
yet radio amateurs keep posting on 03-104, even after an NPRM
has been released nearly a month before.

03-104 now has 5,713 documents in its ECFS section as of
Sunday, 14 March 2004. At least 600 of those were submitted
AFTER the initial notice of the NPRM (12 February 2004). Any
further input at 03-104 is not going to do any good. According to
the 12 Feb 04 Notice, the Docket number is 04-37. The NPRM is
04-29. As of Sunday, 14 Mar 04, the ECFS listings indicate the
following number of documents on the two dockets -

04-29: 5 04-37: 21

If anyone REALLY wants to make their voice heard on the BPL
subject, the above are the two places to file (I don't know yet why
the initial notice said "docket 04-37" but my Comment went to
both and were indicated as accepted).

The R&O (Report and Order) that established the latest
Restructuring in U.S. amateur radio was FCC 99-412 and was
effective 30 Dec 99. By the ECFS listings on the NPRM 98-143,
218 sent in Comments AFTER that date. All commentary
on 98-143 was cut off on 15 Jan 99 but many continued on
regardless. The last person to "file" comments on 98-143 was
Peter Alterman, PhD, W2CDO, document accepted 24 Sep 03 (!),
over two and a half years AFTER the R&O. Does anyone think
that 200+ comments filed on an NPRM after an R&O has been
issued will somehow make an R&O go away?

No one HAS to file anything on any subject with the FCC. Hams
can just let the ARRL do all the work for them and go back to
playing with their radios. However, anyone who really and truly
cares to comment as a thinking, independent citizen has an
excellent opportunity to speak DIRECTLY to our government.

There's no real delay with electronic filing. But...there's only about
two weeks left for initial Comments and a month more for Reply to
Comments and back-and-forth on same. Time doesn't stand still
and a minority membership organization can't do all the effective
speaking for you.

The alternative is to do NOTHING. Very safe, no effort required.
But, you don't qualify all the subsequent whines and crying about
the awful interference on HF when you did NOTHING. You did
NOTHING even if you sit around high-fiving all the other do-nothing
hams about your self-perceived wonderfulness and glorious
"service" to something or other.

CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

DO SOMETHING. Tell the government what you think.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:
CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

They are? Would it be too much trouble for you to name one or two of
'em?

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

Poor baby. ANGER affecting your thinking, is it?

Access BPL is going to affect ANYONE desiring to tune anything
in the HF and low-VHF spectrum.

You have some choices. Stay in here, do nothing about BPL, and
snarl at non-hams (like you always do); or, make your comments to
the FCC...free, quite quick, and you go on public record as one of
many who oppose Access BPL; or just let the ARRL do it, one
special-interest group against MANY others who want it.

You have this wonderful opportunity as a citizen to make your
feelings known to our government, freely, and without censorship.
But, you don't (at least not yet) and all you do in here is bitch and
snarl and try to arrogantly control others.

Play all you want with your mighty HF radios now. They might be
worthless in the future when BPL comes into your area and the
FCC has relaxed incidental RF radiation limits because not enough
citizens showed interest in the problem. Continue to snarl and
make nasty to selected individuals...that way you can say you are
"too busy" to comment on Access BPL because you were trying
to maintain ethnic cleansing of the newsgroup.

So long, Slobodan,

LHA / WMD

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:
CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

They are? Would it be too much trouble for you to name one or two of
'em?

Actually, Dave, the citizens' radio service was created by FCC in 1946
and the first licenses issued in 1947. See:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W8PAL/

The first allocations were in the 460 MHz range, and were known as
Class A and Class B cb. (One class was voice and the other
radio-control). The more-popular ~27 MHz cb (Class C and Class D) were
authorized by FCC in 1958. FRS and GMRS are really the lineal
descendants of 1946-era cb.

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

There's a profile floating around that you might find handy, Dave...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

Poor baby. ANGER affecting your thinking, is it?

No, Loon. Was it effecting your thinking when you wrote something
similar about what you believe hams are thinking about the loss of 11m?

Access BPL is going to affect ANYONE desiring to tune anything
in the HF and low-VHF spectrum.

Really?

You have some choices. Stay in here, do nothing about BPL, and
snarl at non-hams (like you always do); or, make your comments to
the FCC...free, quite quick, and you go on public record as one of
many who oppose Access BPL; or just let the ARRL do it, one
special-interest group against MANY others who want it.

You know, I've never needed your assistance in posting my comments to
the FCC before. What made you think I'd need it now?

Dave K8MN

N2EY wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:
CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

They are? Would it be too much trouble for you to name one or two of
'em?

Actually, Dave, the citizens' radio service was created by FCC in 1946
and the first licenses issued in 1947. See:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W8PAL/

The first allocations were in the 460 MHz range, and were known as
Class A and Class B cb. (One class was voice and the other
radio-control). The more-popular ~27 MHz cb (Class C and Class D) were
authorized by FCC in 1958. FRS and GMRS are really the lineal
descendants of 1946-era cb.

I would have thought our resident expert on all things radio would have
known that.

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

There's a profile floating around that you might find handy, Dave...

Oh, don't worry. Your summary of Len's likely actions will pop up from
time to time as long as he acts as he does. The humorous part of
dealing with Leonard is that he just can't see is that he is guilty of
those things of which he accuses others. If someone like him moved next
door to me, I'd give serious thought to planting a "For Sale" sign on my
lawn--or maybe I'd just paint my house lavender and put in a yard full
of pink plastic flamingos.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:
CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

They are? Would it be too much trouble for you to name one or two of
'em?

Actually, Dave, the citizens' radio service was created by FCC in 1946
and the first licenses issued in 1947. See:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W8PAL/

The first allocations were in the 460 MHz range, and were known as
Class A and Class B cb. (One class was voice and the other
radio-control). The more-popular ~27 MHz cb (Class C and Class D) were
authorized by FCC in 1958. FRS and GMRS are really the lineal
descendants of 1946-era cb.

I would have thought our resident expert on all things radio would have
known that.

Such a person should also know that FCC will accept comments up to 45 days from
the date an NPRM is published in the federal register.

Such a person should also know that FCC has been doing the comment thing for
decades. Back in the 60s FCC got over 6000 comments to the various "incentive
licensing" proposals. This was back in the days when such comments were usually
manually typed and mailed - no PCs, no internet, no emails. This was
back when the number of US hams was about 40% of what it is today.

And you'd think such a person would have filed comments on 98-143 during the
comment period, not the reply comment period, and done it electronically. But
hey, even professionals have computer trouble.

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

There's a profile floating around that you might find handy, Dave...

Oh, don't worry. Your summary of Len's likely actions will pop up from
time to time as long as he acts as he does.

So predictable.

The humorous part of
dealing with Leonard is that he just can't see is that he is guilty of
those things of which he accuses others.

Maybe he can. Maybe that's his point.

If someone like him moved next
door to me, I'd give serious thought to planting a "For Sale" sign on my
lawn--or maybe I'd just paint my house lavender and put in a yard full
of pink plastic flamingos.

Did you ever see the John Waters film by that name?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

The first allocations were in the 460 MHz range, and were known as
Class A and Class B cb. (One class was voice and the other
radio-control). The more-popular ~27 MHz cb (Class C and Class D) were
authorized by FCC in 1958. FRS and GMRS are really the lineal
descendants of 1946-era cb.

I would have thought our resident expert on all things radio would have
known that.

You don't think Lennie was going to let somehting like "details"
or "facts" get in the way of his chance to let loose yet another
anti-Amateur barrage, do ya...?!?!

(...and pretty much puts a hole in his "hams don't know anything
about radio outside of ham bands" rants...)

There's a profile floating around that you might find handy, Dave...

Oh, don't worry. Your summary of Len's likely actions will pop up from
time to time as long as he acts as he does. The humorous part of
dealing with Leonard is that he just can't see is that he is guilty of
those things of which he accuses others. If someone like him moved next
door to me, I'd give serious thought to planting a "For Sale" sign on my
lawn--or maybe I'd just paint my house lavender and put in a yard full
of pink plastic flamingos.

Better idea: Paint HIS house lavender and put the flamingoes in
HIS yard...especially when he takes one of his vaunted "road trips"
with Mrs Lennie...Don't forget the metallized fountain ball and the
"carriage boy with lantern" figurine..


73

Steve, K4YZ

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

The humorous part of
dealing with Leonard is that he just can't see is that he is guilty of
those things of which he accuses others.

The humorous part of it is that those things of which he accuses
others is generally correct.

If someone like him moved next
door to me, I'd give serious thought to planting a "For Sale" sign on my
lawn--or maybe I'd just paint my house lavender and put in a yard full
of pink plastic flamingos.

Dave K8MN

Hmmmm? A Lavendar painted tar-paper shack? WV Chic?

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:
CB was created 46 years ago and hams of today are still crying
and whining and P&Ming about the FCC "stealing away 'their' band"
even though they may not have been born when CB was.

They are? Would it be too much trouble for you to name one or two of
'em?

Actually, Dave, the citizens' radio service was created by FCC in 1946
and the first licenses issued in 1947. See:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W8PAL/

The first allocations were in the 460 MHz range,

462 Mhz to be more precise I do believe.

and were known as
Class A and Class B cb. (One class was voice and the other
radio-control).

Yessir. Maybe 1950 or so and I was prowling Arch around Tenth and one
of those radio row junk shops had it's usual pile lined up on the
sidewalk. In addition to the half ton of WW2 surplus goodies there
were several clean new-looking boxes which, in retrospect, were along
the lines of the Gonset Communicators and/or Benton Harbor Lunchboxes.
Nice looking pieces, mics included, had short whips atop the boxes.
Looked like complete two-way radios to me and were marked $5 each,
same $$ as all the ARC-5 boxes. I asked the guy what they were. His
exact words are long lost of course but the gist of it was that they
were for a new kind of two-way radio band everybody could use without
having to take any FCC tests at all. "WHAT??". Unthinkable! "What
frequencies do they run on?" "UHF crap, 400 Mhz or something. Don't
work worth a damn for more than a few blocks away, don't bother kid."
I didn't.


The more-popular ~27 MHz cb (Class C and Class D) were
authorized by FCC in 1958. FRS and GMRS are really the lineal
descendants of 1946-era cb.

You seem to be whining and crying about amateur radio licensing issues
even though you weren't born when amateur radio was.

There's a profile floating around that you might find handy, Dave...

73 de Jim, N2EY

b.