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We need an issue to argue about!
Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new
issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! |
Alun L. Palmer wrote: Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! well gee you will have to wait a bit longer People Like Stevie, Dave and Jim Still think there is life in the issue yet, that is what all the personal attacks are about |
Alun:
Agreed! Some suggestions of mine: 1) How to attract large numbers of new general+ licensees. 2) How to set examples of civil conversation, debate, and exchange. 3) Discussion of other amateur policy which can be adjusted to promoted increased and improved exchanges. 4) Attempting to encourage arrl into reformation so they do represent all amateurs and gain additional membership. 5) etc. John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:05:44 +0000, Alun L. Palmer wrote: Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! |
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Alun: Agreed! Some suggestions of mine: 1) How to attract large numbers of new general+ licensees. 2) How to set examples of civil conversation, debate, and exchange. 3) Discussion of other amateur policy which can be adjusted to promoted increased and improved exchanges. 4) Attempting to encourage arrl into reformation so they do represent all amateurs and gain additional membership. 5) etc. John Well number 4 is doomed to failure as not all amateurs will join no matter what the enticements are so it is impossible for them to represent all the amateurs. Plus they don't even have 100% agreement on issues among the existing membership so if they try to represent all their members, they are in an impossible position and will end up doing nothing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
You are a smart girl, in your text you pin-point the problem exactly! They fail to focus on the issues which ALL amateurs can work out agreements on. If they run an agenda which only supports a few hams, or course they are seen as ineffective and a special interest group. They will either figure that out, or die when the influx of ideas and demands simple moves them aside... John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:03:40 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Alun: Agreed! Some suggestions of mine: 1) How to attract large numbers of new general+ licensees. 2) How to set examples of civil conversation, debate, and exchange. 3) Discussion of other amateur policy which can be adjusted to promoted increased and improved exchanges. 4) Attempting to encourage arrl into reformation so they do represent all amateurs and gain additional membership. 5) etc. John Well number 4 is doomed to failure as not all amateurs will join no matter what the enticements are so it is impossible for them to represent all the amateurs. Plus they don't even have 100% agreement on issues among the existing membership so if they try to represent all their members, they are in an impossible position and will end up doing nothing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
Again, you are right on! Your suggestion will fill a real need and help advance the society of amateur radio. I like you better all the time girl! John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:00:17 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. just how do you propose to do that, after all we are likely to be a mixed bunch Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: You are a smart girl, in your text you pin-point the problem exactly! They fail to focus on the issues which ALL amateurs can work out agreements on. If they run an agenda which only supports a few hams, or course they are seen as ineffective and a special interest group. They will either figure that out, or die when the influx of ideas and demands simple moves them aside... John My point was that there is no issue on which all amateurs can agree on the same answer/approach/methodology. Those whose point of view is not adopted, even if they are a very small minority, will start hollering about the ARRL serving only a few hams or special interests despite evidence to the contrary. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. just how do you propose to do that, after all we are likely to be a mixed bunch Which is exactly why such a discussion could be useful. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. just how do you propose to do that, after all we are likely to be a mixed bunch Which is exactly why such a discussion could be useful. as I thought I implied well enough but guess not, please by all means try Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
I see the issues as, for example: 1) Induce more licensees so the amateur contains a base of more varied and qualified skills. 2) Inspire a greater interest in manufacturers to provide more and updated equipment. 3) Restore a greater importance and public awareness in amateur radio, ideally, everyone IS a ham, or at least knows one. 4) Structure bandwidth to serve the the greatest number with the modes (protocols) they require or are interested in. 5) Inspired experimenting with adapting the new technologies to amateur radio, and not just on a commercial level, but at a "hands on level" which amateurs can participate in. 6) Clear all barriers and have free access to foreign hams, standardize as much as possible so hams can serve as ambassadors to the world. 7) Attempt to interface amateur with the internet in anyway possible so the amateur radio gains a useful status in todays world which keeps it competitive to sustaining its future. 8) etc, etc, etc... Once true principals and goals are established for the masses radio is meant to serve the course will become clear, those not working in radios best interest can be shown for what they are and weeded out... some do not wish this... first, arrl has to become a platform to work out these goals from EVERYONES input, and if the pool of amateurs is able to be expanded to a necessary degree and become diverse enough to represent all of technology, it just may... John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:41:34 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: You are a smart girl, in your text you pin-point the problem exactly! They fail to focus on the issues which ALL amateurs can work out agreements on. If they run an agenda which only supports a few hams, or course they are seen as ineffective and a special interest group. They will either figure that out, or die when the influx of ideas and demands simple moves them aside... John My point was that there is no issue on which all amateurs can agree on the same answer/approach/methodology. Those whose point of view is not adopted, even if they are a very small minority, will start hollering about the ARRL serving only a few hams or special interests despite evidence to the contrary. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: I see the issues as, for example: 1) Induce more licensees so the amateur contains a base of more varied and qualified skills. How? 2) Inspire a greater interest in manufacturers to provide more and updated equipment. How? 3) Restore a greater importance and public awareness in amateur radio, ideally, everyone IS a ham, or at least knows one. How? 4) Structure bandwidth to serve the the greatest number with the modes (protocols) they require or are interested in. How? 5) Inspired experimenting with adapting the new technologies to amateur radio, and not just on a commercial level, but at a "hands on level" which amateurs can participate in. How? 6) Clear all barriers and have free access to foreign hams, standardize as much as possible so hams can serve as ambassadors to the world. How? 7) Attempt to interface amateur with the internet in anyway possible so the amateur radio gains a useful status in todays world which keeps it competitive to sustaining its future. How? 8) etc, etc, etc... These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete actions. Once true principals and goals are established for the masses radio is meant to serve the course will become clear, those not working in radios best interest can be shown for what they are and weeded out... some do not wish this... first, arrl has to become a platform to work out these goals from EVERYONES input, and if the pool of amateurs is able to be expanded to a necessary degree and become diverse enough to represent all of technology, it just may... John I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
You expect it to happen all-at-once, I suspect... but, it will not... since it won't, many will call failure and hope to prevent change... It will be a series of baby-steps. That first has already been taken, removal of CW testing... next, find ways to provide fertile ground for either the ideas I have already expressed--encourage someone you know to get a ticket--pointing out they now only have to take a written test, and/or other ideas which benefit the hobby. Each of us can start in a local amateur group which is local to us, if nothing else, shame them into getting involved in the real future of amateur radio! The single most important thing any amateur can do is focus on the issues, improvements needed and gaining support of others to overcome the inertia of the current stagnant status quo. Decide if you wish to be part of the solution or part of the problem. Have patience and stick to what you know is right... don't drop down and begin petty battles with those who want to divert you and wear you out to maintain the status quo... take pride in having the courage to oppose the "small man attitude" which so many have seem prone to fall victim to... .... you know girl, "... longest journey begins but with the first step..." John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: I see the issues as, for example: 1) Induce more licensees so the amateur contains a base of more varied and qualified skills. How? 2) Inspire a greater interest in manufacturers to provide more and updated equipment. How? 3) Restore a greater importance and public awareness in amateur radio, ideally, everyone IS a ham, or at least knows one. How? 4) Structure bandwidth to serve the the greatest number with the modes (protocols) they require or are interested in. How? 5) Inspired experimenting with adapting the new technologies to amateur radio, and not just on a commercial level, but at a "hands on level" which amateurs can participate in. How? 6) Clear all barriers and have free access to foreign hams, standardize as much as possible so hams can serve as ambassadors to the world. How? 7) Attempt to interface amateur with the internet in anyway possible so the amateur radio gains a useful status in todays world which keeps it competitive to sustaining its future. How? 8) etc, etc, etc... These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete actions. Once true principals and goals are established for the masses radio is meant to serve the course will become clear, those not working in radios best interest can be shown for what they are and weeded out... some do not wish this... first, arrl has to become a platform to work out these goals from EVERYONES input, and if the pool of amateurs is able to be expanded to a necessary degree and become diverse enough to represent all of technology, it just may... John I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
On 14 Aug 2005 16:05:44 GMT, "Alun L. Palmer"
wrote: Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! Certain high-profile members of the 80 meter crowd migrated here after Riley sent a bunch of NALs a few years ago. I have never seen such a group of people so obsessed with each other. For some it's pills. For others, it's alcohol. But for this group, chaos seems to be their drug of choice... |
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! Try getting back on 14.313 for a welcome change. Ole Sid the Lid has been heard several times on that freq this week in the afternoon, along with the kooky indian from Evansville and a few of the old original gang of Liberty New QRM'ers from years gone by. They've seemed to have mellowed out a bit but their still as ornery and ignorant sounding as they were from years ago. Seems like things never change on ham radio until they either die off or go into the 'Happy Acres' rest home, where the closest thing they'll get to a ham radio is a transistor radio playing rush on the window table and the closest thing they'll see to a good Metal Ground Plane is the chromed stainless steel bedpan that Nurse Ratchet drops by each evening for the "long nights haul...." |
Ted:
Change is usually non-conformity, and may seem chaotic to those stuck in a rut... John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:32:14 -0400, Uncle Ted wrote: On 14 Aug 2005 16:05:44 GMT, "Alun L. Palmer" wrote: Now that the code test is on it's way to join the buggy whip, we need a new issue to argue about. There are a lot of threads here devoted to personal attacks on people I have never heard of. It's getting too much like 80m! Certain high-profile members of the 80 meter crowd migrated here after Riley sent a bunch of NALs a few years ago. I have never seen such a group of people so obsessed with each other. For some it's pills. For others, it's alcohol. But for this group, chaos seems to be their drug of choice... |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:12:26 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Ted: Change is usually non-conformity, and may seem chaotic to those stuck in a rut... John I fail to see what all of the current "non-conformists" are trying to change. It's like they're so obsessed with insults that they've forgotten what the original debate was about. |
Ted:
Agreed. John "Uncle Ted" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:12:26 -0700, John Smith wrote: Ted: Change is usually non-conformity, and may seem chaotic to those stuck in a rut... John I fail to see what all of the current "non-conformists" are trying to change. It's like they're so obsessed with insults that they've forgotten what the original debate was about. |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote:
| How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out. | These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete | actions. Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go. | I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different | people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. And why not hear them all out? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ | | (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
Dee Flint wrote: How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea: Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote: | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out. I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence" to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one saying "its a problem but YOU do the work." | These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete | actions. Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go. I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone else to solve. | I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different | people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. And why not hear them all out? No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on an almost daily basis. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
I don't think you have to explain. It is plain that those against change are into the ploy of attack the person advancing the change, list everything wrong, submit NO ideas for change, ignore, play dumb, hope it all goes away, keep it a close door group, etc, etc... You really don't have to take time to explain, we can work withing that framework... John On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:16:25 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote: | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out. I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence" to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one saying "its a problem but YOU do the work." | These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete | actions. Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go. I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone else to solve. | I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different | people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. And why not hear them all out? No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on an almost daily basis. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
wrote in message ps.com... Dee Flint wrote: How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea: Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos. 73 de Jim, N2EY The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this has a chance of getting those hams who don't belong to clubs. As far as websites go, there are already so many (some are very good) that I think additional websites may get lost in the crowd so to speak. Our club already has a presentation at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here. I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message ps.com... Dee Flint wrote: How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea: Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos. The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this has a chance of getting those hams who don't belong to clubs. One thing that generates interest is to see stuff actually in use. The AM folks in these parts have gotten into the idea of setting up a demo station at big hamfests like Gaithersburg. They use classic hollow-state gear, and show what both the gear and the mode are like. Usually it's a group effort, so the station is always on the air and nobody has to bring a complete setup. Another venue is specialized events like air shows. Some military-radio collectors set up a demo and display (with permission of course) and show the radio gear in action. As far as websites go, there are already so many (some are very good) that I think additional websites may get lost in the crowd so to speak. I think there's always room for more *good* online info. The big challenge is making it easy to find. Our club already has a presentation at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here. I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. That's a classic problem. But if the advice is offered the right way, most folks will take it. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
N2EY:
Gee, and we wonder why kids raised with computers and state-of-the-art communications are not turned on... John On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:47:49 -0700, N2EY wrote: Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... Dee Flint wrote: How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get a bunch all at once before it levels out once again. There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea: Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos. The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this has a chance of getting those hams who don't belong to clubs. One thing that generates interest is to see stuff actually in use. The AM folks in these parts have gotten into the idea of setting up a demo station at big hamfests like Gaithersburg. They use classic hollow-state gear, and show what both the gear and the mode are like. Usually it's a group effort, so the station is always on the air and nobody has to bring a complete setup. Another venue is specialized events like air shows. Some military-radio collectors set up a demo and display (with permission of course) and show the radio gear in action. As far as websites go, there are already so many (some are very good) that I think additional websites may get lost in the crowd so to speak. I think there's always room for more *good* online info. The big challenge is making it easy to find. Our club already has a presentation at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here. I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. That's a classic problem. But if the advice is offered the right way, most folks will take it. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... cut I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that, certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth. most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to operate I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF Some techs are cluessless and need hand holding (as do some extras, general etc) most that have stuck arround a bit are pretty resuourcefull and fairly pataint Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote: | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? | How? Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out. I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence" to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one saying "its a problem but YOU do the work." | These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete | actions. Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go. I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone else to solve. Talk is quite inexpensive. To point out what the problem is, and with no solutions - or offers to enact solutions is great work if you can get it. I worked with a guy once who used to say "My position in life is to point out the shortcomings of others." And he was serious. | I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different | people are going to have ten different needs and ideas. And why not hear them all out? No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on an almost daily basis. Yup. When I was the prez of the youth hockey league, there were several times when I was pulled aside by both sets of parents in disputes with threats to sue if my decision didn't go their way. - Mike KB3EIA - |
AOF:
You know, you have a point there. To tell you the truth, the full impact just brought me awake alike a slap in the face! Those ancient HF's with their fondness for mimicking pseudo-military communications, dreaming of saving-the-world-with-a-brass-key and using army protocols are going to wage a war like all-hell-has-broke-loose. And, while providing some entertainment, is likely to result in complete chaos! May take a decade just for the flack to clear the air... John On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:25:00 -0700, an_old_friend wrote: Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... cut I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that, certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth. most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to operate I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF Some techs are cluessless and need hand holding (as do some extras, general etc) most that have stuck arround a bit are pretty resuourcefull and fairly pataint Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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"John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too! John That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their issue. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
Yes. I agree, and now we must do our part and bring the word that there will not be a element 1. And, help those with an interest in radio to the amateur bands. But, this all depends on no code, so there is a lag while we wait. It doesn't take much to do a lot, every amateur bring one new licensee in, we double the numbers, two we triple, etc. Frankly, it is quite exciting! But, it would probably be too optimistic to expect everyone to participate, some may be "sour grapes" and drag their feet, leaving some to do more... The club here is dominated by "save the code" types, I am not popular there at all and some just avoid me. Hopefully, this will change... probably not, my hide is thick. grin John On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:03:19 -0400, Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too! John That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their issue. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too! John That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their issue. As One of them over the years I thank you for your gracious words. They have been rare from the "Other Side" I point out the the Nocoder took the Treaty and FCC and won now we just have to deal with HF, forgive me if it this flip but I think HF will pose an easier task. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
John Smith wrote: Mike: Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too! I certainly respect Bill. I argue with him sometimes, but We've always kept it civil - tho' I don't think he likes my "predictions" very much! 8^) I even respect Carl, even if he cahnged his mind about some pretty important things. I would offer some advice to him tho': Never say never... - Mike KB3EIA - |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message ups.com... Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... cut I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that, certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth. most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to operate This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The mutual respect is the key to it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Yes. I agree, and now we must do our part and bring the word that there will not be a element 1. And, help those with an interest in radio to the amateur bands. But, this all depends on no code, so there is a lag while we wait. I fear you are in for a big disappointment. Dropping the code was never the key. It doesn't take much to do a lot, every amateur bring one new licensee in, we double the numbers, two we triple, etc. I've been beating the drum for years. I've hung my awards in my office. No nibbles. Frankly, it is quite exciting! But, it would probably be too optimistic to expect everyone to participate, some may be "sour grapes" and drag their feet, leaving some to do more... The club here is dominated by "save the code" types, I am not popular there at all and some just avoid me. Hopefully, this will change... probably not, my hide is thick. grin Find a different club. Our club has two "missions" if you will. One is supporting public service events and the other is running amateur radio classes. We are already scheduling classes for the people who will want to ugrade to General under the new system. We figure by the time we get the word around about the changing requirements and the class, arrange a location, have the class set up, and actually go through the class, it should dovetail fairly well with the arrival of the new licensing requirements. The class is likely to start in January. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message ups.com... Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Mike: Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too! John That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their issue. As One of them over the years I thank you for your gracious words. They have been rare from the "Other Side" I point out the the Nocoder took the Treaty and FCC and won now we just have to deal with HF, forgive me if it this flip but I think HF will pose an easier task. Don't get too carried away. While I admired the fact that they acted instead of talked, I abhored the NCI tactics. As far as I am concerned, they put down the no coders worse than any pro-code advocate ever did by pushing the idea that it was too hard for average people to learn. They also touted how much less power modes like PSK took but omitted including the power requirements for the necessary computer and monitor, which more than wipes out any power consumption advantage. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message ups.com... Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... cut I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that, certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth. most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to operate This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. and also with a fair chance of not being blind sided as well, there is no free launch as AMSAT would say I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The mutual respect is the key to it. Indeed it does, as did the club I belonged in Springfield IL and several other clubs I have vistied over the years Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
AOF:
As I have been pointing out to you, with my last few posts, taking newbies under your wing and showing them there is nothing to fear. The gov't has granted them their license, certainly no one here is able to question the validity, and those who stoop so low are to be pitied... but, it is only those who can demonstrate this ability now, who will be able to help them then... John On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:40:43 -0700, an_old_friend wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message ups.com... Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ps.com... cut I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition. A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that, certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth. most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to operate This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. and also with a fair chance of not being blind sided as well, there is no free launch as AMSAT would say I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The mutual respect is the key to it. Indeed it does, as did the club I belonged in Springfield IL and several other clubs I have vistied over the years Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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