From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am

" wrote in
From: Michael Coslo on Sep 16, 9:44 am
an_old_friend wrote:
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 13, 1:25 pm


I'll admit that Len can be irritating at times, but this accusation that he
hates radio hams is nonsensical. I've never seen any evidence of that.

Alun, all those character-assassination statements of "hating hams"
are just that, character-assassination attempts.

Morsemanship - as a "requirement" for amateur radio licensing
has evolved to a high fantasy art, typified by the pseudo-
arithmetic of: HamRadio = MorseCode.

Put another way: "ARS" = Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society.

Those radio amateurs who fancy themselves good at radiotelegraphy
are incensed at such comparisons. They wish the ARS to be in
Their Image. [it's as simple as that] Hence the character
assassination attempts when they are challenged.

I also agree with his post that dropping the Morse test is THE big issue,
more important than any restructuring, etc. I have taught ham radio
classes, and IME the biggest factor in whether people succeed in the theory
tests is whether they are genuinely interested in radio. If they just want
to chat and aren't into radio as a medium, there's always CB. OTOH, it's
absolutely possible to be totally radio obsessed and yet not give a fig for
Sam Morse and his silly old bleeping noises. This is why it's a big issue.

Some radio amateurs who are NOT in the radio-electronics industry
keep insisting that "amateur radio was their first stepping-stone
into a radio-electronics working career." That's quite untrue.

All of electronics (radio is a subset within that) is
fascinating in and of itself to those who chose to work within
it. For the vast majority of workers IN the electronics-radio
industry, they did NOT "begin" as licensed radio amateurs. Hams
who are IN the industry try to say contrary but they are just
speaking of themselves, failing to look around at all the others
around them who did not "get ham licenses first."

Some of the incensed have already replied with "case histories"
from their own work, naming callsigns, hollering "see?! see?!"
That's a very restrictive "example" since they've not gone
beyond a very small bound of their own experience. The IEEE
world membership exceeds a quarter million and non-IEEE workers
are in the millions worldwide. Articles in the trade press
(over a dozen free-subscription monthlies) do not mention morse
code as having any significance. If morse code is mentioned at
all it is in a historical context or as a bit of wry humor.

What too many United States radio amateurs are stuck with is a
kind of conditioned thinking (i.e., "brainwashing") by a singular
publishing house cum membership organization that over-emphasizes
morse code and morsemanship as positive attributes for a hobby.
The League has lobbied for, and gotten, high-rate morsemanship
as a prerequisite for "advanced" (status/rank/privilege) class
licensing...and just never gave up on that until after WRC-03.
The League's core membership and BoD are still of that
generation and are stuck in their ways. They can't change.

As Cecil Moore used to write in here, "If all you've got is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail." :-)

If CW had been on the ITU agenda back in '93, which it was supposed to be,
s25 would have been amended back then, and we could have seen an explosion
in our numbers before the Internet really caught on. As it is, ham radio is
as old as yesterday's newspaper. In short, it's probably too late to get a
major boost in numbers, even if we gave the licences away, which abolishing
the code test certainly doesn't do (and no, I'm not proposing we make the
theory easier).

Astute observation. I agree with most of that.

I will disagree only with the "what if" of 1993 and any
possibility of S25 being changed in any radical way. The IARU
had not yet been turned around on their collective code test
opinion, their member organizations still fixated on standards
and practices of their leaders' youth and formative years.
However, the no-code-test movement had already been started a
decade before that, albeit small, ineffectual in the beginning
but growing in intensity as time went on.

Judging by all the past reports of WARCs and WRCs, the IARU was
more influential with the ITU than what the ARRL pretended to be.
The IARU was also embroiled in a number of problems such as the
40m amateur v. SWBC allocations that was SUPPOSED to have been
addressed at WARC-79. It was put off...and put off...until
finally, after 24 years it achieved a solution at WRC-03...which
won't be fully implemented until a few years from now.

In the United States the ARRL still hasn't fully understood that
the 1991 opening up of the no-code-test Technician class license
added over 200 thousand NEW radio amateurs to the amateur
database. If that had not happened, the United States hams would
have SHRUNK in overall numbers in today's database...even though
the overall population is continuing to increase. As it is, the
number of amateur licensees here have been virtually stagnant for
over two years, NOT growing and decreasing a miniscule amount
since the 2003 peak period. The trend is THERE. The licensees
keeping the numbers up are the newcomers arriving via the no-
code-test Tech class. Unrenewed license attrition is greater.

The enormous worldwide growth of the Internet and availability of
personal computers has stolen MUCH of the "magic" out of the
"shortwave radio" mystique. That can't be regained by insisting
on the alleged "necessity" to learn and test for radio-
telegraphy...for a hobby. Morse code won't defeat terrorists or
save lives or be the First Responder on the scene of disasters.

Radio - by itself - still has tremendous fascination to many. It
may be that elimination of the code test will produce some
increase. Certainly, judging from Comments of WT Docket 05-235,
there will be a surge of "upgraders" to "higher" classes. That
does little to the overall license totals. The PC and Internet
is the Great Challenge to amateur radio for 24/7 personal
communications...almost gargantuan competition, already dwarfing
other competitors. The number of Comments on Docket 05-235,
after only two months, are GREATER than the total number of
Comments on "restructuring" (WT Docket 98-143) for all of 1998!
Most filings on 05-235 are done electronically. Over on
www.qrz.com, the electronic comments on code testing are greater
than four times the filings on 05-235 (I stopped reading them a
couple weeks ago...too many). We are IN the electronic digital
age NOW.

I'll go out on a limb and say that, should code testing be
abolished for amateur radio, the license totals might jump to
20% more than current numbers and then level off. Assumption
only, more of a guess than anything. The sky will fall on
the old amateur morsemen, the "world as they know it" will be
a total disaster zone with bitter, angry recriminations
abounding. They will ignore all the years, the decades of
themselves parading proudly as Champions of Radio and
sneering, snarling at no-coders.

Need any more proof?

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
ups.com...
From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am

" wrote in
From: Michael Coslo on Sep 16, 9:44 am
an_old_friend wrote:
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 13, 1:25 pm


I'll admit that Len can be irritating at times, but this accusation that
he
hates radio hams is nonsensical. I've never seen any evidence of that.

Alun, all those character-assassination statements of "hating hams"
are just that, character-assassination attempts.

Morsemanship - as a "requirement" for amateur radio licensing
has evolved to a high fantasy art, typified by the pseudo-
arithmetic of: HamRadio = MorseCode.

Put another way: "ARS" = Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society.

Those radio amateurs who fancy themselves good at radiotelegraphy
are incensed at such comparisons. They wish the ARS to be in
Their Image. [it's as simple as that] Hence the character
assassination attempts when they are challenged.

I also agree with his post that dropping the Morse test is THE big issue,
more important than any restructuring, etc. I have taught ham radio
classes, and IME the biggest factor in whether people succeed in the
theory
tests is whether they are genuinely interested in radio. If they just want
to chat and aren't into radio as a medium, there's always CB. OTOH, it's
absolutely possible to be totally radio obsessed and yet not give a fig
for
Sam Morse and his silly old bleeping noises. This is why it's a big issue.

Some radio amateurs who are NOT in the radio-electronics industry
keep insisting that "amateur radio was their first stepping-stone
into a radio-electronics working career." That's quite untrue.

All of electronics (radio is a subset within that) is
fascinating in and of itself to those who chose to work within
it. For the vast majority of workers IN the electronics-radio
industry, they did NOT "begin" as licensed radio amateurs. Hams
who are IN the industry try to say contrary but they are just
speaking of themselves, failing to look around at all the others
around them who did not "get ham licenses first."

Some of the incensed have already replied with "case histories"
from their own work, naming callsigns, hollering "see?! see?!"
That's a very restrictive "example" since they've not gone
beyond a very small bound of their own experience. The IEEE
world membership exceeds a quarter million and non-IEEE workers
are in the millions worldwide. Articles in the trade press
(over a dozen free-subscription monthlies) do not mention morse
code as having any significance. If morse code is mentioned at
all it is in a historical context or as a bit of wry humor.

What too many United States radio amateurs are stuck with is a
kind of conditioned thinking (i.e., "brainwashing") by a singular
publishing house cum membership organization that over-emphasizes
morse code and morsemanship as positive attributes for a hobby.
The League has lobbied for, and gotten, high-rate morsemanship
as a prerequisite for "advanced" (status/rank/privilege) class
licensing...and just never gave up on that until after WRC-03.
The League's core membership and BoD are still of that
generation and are stuck in their ways. They can't change.

As Cecil Moore used to write in here, "If all you've got is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail." :-)

If CW had been on the ITU agenda back in '93, which it was supposed to be,
s25 would have been amended back then, and we could have seen an explosion
in our numbers before the Internet really caught on. As it is, ham radio
is
as old as yesterday's newspaper. In short, it's probably too late to get a
major boost in numbers, even if we gave the licences away, which
abolishing
the code test certainly doesn't do (and no, I'm not proposing we make the
theory easier).

Astute observation. I agree with most of that.

I will disagree only with the "what if" of 1993 and any
possibility of S25 being changed in any radical way. The IARU
had not yet been turned around on their collective code test
opinion, their member organizations still fixated on standards
and practices of their leaders' youth and formative years.
However, the no-code-test movement had already been started a
decade before that, albeit small, ineffectual in the beginning
but growing in intensity as time went on.

Judging by all the past reports of WARCs and WRCs, the IARU was
more influential with the ITU than what the ARRL pretended to be.
The IARU was also embroiled in a number of problems such as the
40m amateur v. SWBC allocations that was SUPPOSED to have been
addressed at WARC-79. It was put off...and put off...until
finally, after 24 years it achieved a solution at WRC-03...which
won't be fully implemented until a few years from now.

In the United States the ARRL still hasn't fully understood that
the 1991 opening up of the no-code-test Technician class license
added over 200 thousand NEW radio amateurs to the amateur
database. If that had not happened, the United States hams would
have SHRUNK in overall numbers in today's database...even though
the overall population is continuing to increase. As it is, the
number of amateur licensees here have been virtually stagnant for
over two years, NOT growing and decreasing a miniscule amount
since the 2003 peak period. The trend is THERE. The licensees
keeping the numbers up are the newcomers arriving via the no-
code-test Tech class. Unrenewed license attrition is greater.

The enormous worldwide growth of the Internet and availability of
personal computers has stolen MUCH of the "magic" out of the
"shortwave radio" mystique. That can't be regained by insisting
on the alleged "necessity" to learn and test for radio-
telegraphy...for a hobby. Morse code won't defeat terrorists or
save lives or be the First Responder on the scene of disasters.

Radio - by itself - still has tremendous fascination to many. It
may be that elimination of the code test will produce some
increase. Certainly, judging from Comments of WT Docket 05-235,
there will be a surge of "upgraders" to "higher" classes. That
does little to the overall license totals. The PC and Internet
is the Great Challenge to amateur radio for 24/7 personal
communications...almost gargantuan competition, already dwarfing
other competitors. The number of Comments on Docket 05-235,
after only two months, are GREATER than the total number of
Comments on "restructuring" (WT Docket 98-143) for all of 1998!
Most filings on 05-235 are done electronically. Over on
www.qrz.com, the electronic comments on code testing are greater
than four times the filings on 05-235 (I stopped reading them a
couple weeks ago...too many). We are IN the electronic digital
age NOW.

I'll go out on a limb and say that, should code testing be
abolished for amateur radio, the license totals might jump to
20% more than current numbers and then level off. Assumption
only, more of a guess than anything. The sky will fall on
the old amateur morsemen, the "world as they know it" will be
a total disaster zone with bitter, angry recriminations
abounding. They will ignore all the years, the decades of
themselves parading proudly as Champions of Radio and
sneering, snarling at no-coders.

wrote:
From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am


" wrote in

From: Michael Coslo on Sep 16, 9:44 am

an_old_friend wrote:

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"an_old_friend" wrote in message

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

wrote in message

From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 13, 1:25 pm



I'll admit that Len can be irritating at times, but this accusation that he
hates radio hams is nonsensical. I've never seen any evidence of that.


Alun, all those character-assassination statements of "hating hams"
are just that, character-assassination attempts.

Morsemanship - as a "requirement" for amateur radio licensing
has evolved to a high fantasy art, typified by the pseudo-
arithmetic of: HamRadio = MorseCode.

Put another way: "ARS" = Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society.

You've put it several ways, all of them untrue. I myself operate any
number of modes available to me. We all know that there is no "Archaic
Radiotelegraphy Society" and we also know that CW is the second most
popular HF mode.

Those radio amateurs who fancy themselves good at radiotelegraphy
are incensed at such comparisons. They wish the ARS to be in
Their Image. [it's as simple as that] Hence the character
assassination attempts when they are challenged.

It would make much more sense for that to be the case--if it was true.
What wouldn't make sense is for amateur radio to be molded in the image
of some geezer on the west coast, who isn't even a participant in
amateur radio. As to character assassination, you've been more guilty of
that than just about anyone here. It is what you do.


I also agree with his post that dropping the Morse test is THE big issue,
more important than any restructuring, etc. I have taught ham radio
classes, and IME the biggest factor in whether people succeed in the theory
tests is whether they are genuinely interested in radio. If they just want
to chat and aren't into radio as a medium, there's always CB. OTOH, it's
absolutely possible to be totally radio obsessed and yet not give a fig for
Sam Morse and his silly old bleeping noises. This is why it's a big issue.


Some radio amateurs who are NOT in the radio-electronics industry
keep insisting that "amateur radio was their first stepping-stone
into a radio-electronics working career." That's quite untrue.

Guys not in the radio-electronics industry insist that they got into
radio or electronics work because of amateur radio. That doesn't make
sense and I've not seen anyone claim anything like you've stated.

All of electronics (radio is a subset within that) is
fascinating in and of itself to those who chose to work within
it. For the vast majority of workers IN the electronics-radio
industry, they did NOT "begin" as licensed radio amateurs.

So?

Hams
who are IN the industry try to say contrary but they are just
speaking of themselves, failing to look around at all the others
around them who did not "get ham licenses first."

Hams who are in the industry to to say that majority of their co-workers
got into their work because of amateur radio? I don't believe you.

Some of the incensed have already replied with "case histories"
from their own work, naming callsigns, hollering "see?! see?!"
That's a very restrictive "example" since they've not gone
beyond a very small bound of their own experience.

I don't think anyone has used his personal experience to attempt to say
that being a ham is the only way into industry or government
radio/electronics. It certainly can be *a* way. Does it honk you off
because an amateur radio ticket opens the door for some? The CIA has
placed ads in QST and has had a booth at the Dayton Hamvention. When I
was hired by State, the Department was actively recruiting former
military ops and radio amateurs. Why would that surprise or upset you?

The IEEE
world membership exceeds a quarter million and non-IEEE workers
are in the millions worldwide. Articles in the trade press
(over a dozen free-subscription monthlies) do not mention morse
code as having any significance. If morse code is mentioned at
all it is in a historical context or as a bit of wry humor.

Wow, I guess you told us. That just about sums up all there is to know
about that, huh?

What too many United States radio amateurs are stuck with is a
kind of conditioned thinking (i.e., "brainwashing") by a singular
publishing house cum membership organization that over-emphasizes
morse code and morsemanship as positive attributes for a hobby.

....positive attributes for a *hobby* in which morse code still plays a
large part. What would be wrong with that? Are you able to write "The
American Radio Relay League" or "ARRL"? Is it your not-very-well-hidden
dislike for amateur radio which compels you to write things like
"'brainwashing' by a singular publishing house cum membership
organization that over-emphasizes morse code..."?

The League has lobbied for, and gotten, high-rate morsemanship
as a prerequisite for "advanced" (status/rank/privilege) class
licensing...and just never gave up on that until after WRC-03.
The League's core membership and BoD are still of that
generation and are stuck in their ways. They can't change.

Your statement is disingenuous at best.

As Cecil Moore used to write in here, "If all you've got is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail." :-)

You screwed that up big time. :-)

If CW had been on the ITU agenda back in '93, which it was supposed to be,
s25 would have been amended back then, and we could have seen an explosion
in our numbers before the Internet really caught on. As it is, ham radio is
as old as yesterday's newspaper. In short, it's probably too late to get a
major boost in numbers, even if we gave the licences away, which abolishing
the code test certainly doesn't do (and no, I'm not proposing we make the
theory easier).


Astute observation. I agree with most of that.

I will disagree only with the "what if" of 1993 and any
possibility of S25 being changed in any radical way. The IARU
had not yet been turned around on their collective code test
opinion, their member organizations still fixated on standards
and practices of their leaders' youth and formative years.
However, the no-code-test movement had already been started a
decade before that, albeit small, ineffectual in the beginning
but growing in intensity as time went on.

Judging by all the past reports of WARCs and WRCs, the IARU was
more influential with the ITU than what the ARRL pretended to be.
The IARU was also embroiled in a number of problems such as the
40m amateur v. SWBC allocations that was SUPPOSED to have been
addressed at WARC-79. It was put off...and put off...until
finally, after 24 years it achieved a solution at WRC-03...which
won't be fully implemented until a few years from now.

That was certainly a case of amateur radio fighting the deep pockets of
mostly governmental shortwave outlets. In the end, it has been
accomplished and is being implemented. Does that bother you?

The sky will fall on
the old amateur morsemen, the "world as they know it" will be
a total disaster zone with bitter, angry recriminations
abounding. They will ignore all the years, the decades of
themselves parading proudly as Champions of Radio and
sneering, snarling at no-coders.

It is strange that those who don't view things as you, are always
sneering or snarling or parading proudly (or even overly-proudly).
That's quite a world you've pasted together for yourself, Leonard.

She was a CW operator's daughter and she didit 'cuz her Da-da did it.

Don't take any wooden modems.

Dave K8MN

" wrote in
ups.com:

From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am

" wrote in
From: Michael Coslo on Sep 16, 9:44 am
an_old_friend wrote:
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 13, 1:25 pm


I'll admit that Len can be irritating at times, but this accusation
that he hates radio hams is nonsensical. I've never seen any evidence
of that.

Alun, all those character-assassination statements of "hating hams"
are just that, character-assassination attempts.

Morsemanship - as a "requirement" for amateur radio licensing
has evolved to a high fantasy art, typified by the pseudo-
arithmetic of: HamRadio = MorseCode.

Put another way: "ARS" = Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society.

Those radio amateurs who fancy themselves good at radiotelegraphy
are incensed at such comparisons. They wish the ARS to be in
Their Image. [it's as simple as that] Hence the character
assassination attempts when they are challenged.

I also agree with his post that dropping the Morse test is THE big
issue, more important than any restructuring, etc. I have taught ham
radio classes, and IME the biggest factor in whether people succeed in
the theory tests is whether they are genuinely interested in radio. If
they just want to chat and aren't into radio as a medium, there's
always CB. OTOH, it's absolutely possible to be totally radio obsessed
and yet not give a fig for Sam Morse and his silly old bleeping noises.
This is why it's a big issue.

Some radio amateurs who are NOT in the radio-electronics industry
keep insisting that "amateur radio was their first stepping-stone
into a radio-electronics working career." That's quite untrue.

All of electronics (radio is a subset within that) is
fascinating in and of itself to those who chose to work within
it. For the vast majority of workers IN the electronics-radio
industry, they did NOT "begin" as licensed radio amateurs. Hams
who are IN the industry try to say contrary but they are just
speaking of themselves, failing to look around at all the others
around them who did not "get ham licenses first."

Some of the incensed have already replied with "case histories"
from their own work, naming callsigns, hollering "see?! see?!"
That's a very restrictive "example" since they've not gone
beyond a very small bound of their own experience. The IEEE
world membership exceeds a quarter million and non-IEEE workers
are in the millions worldwide. Articles in the trade press
(over a dozen free-subscription monthlies) do not mention morse
code as having any significance. If morse code is mentioned at
all it is in a historical context or as a bit of wry humor.

What too many United States radio amateurs are stuck with is a
kind of conditioned thinking (i.e., "brainwashing") by a singular
publishing house cum membership organization that over-emphasizes
morse code and morsemanship as positive attributes for a hobby.
The League has lobbied for, and gotten, high-rate morsemanship
as a prerequisite for "advanced" (status/rank/privilege) class
licensing...and just never gave up on that until after WRC-03.
The League's core membership and BoD are still of that
generation and are stuck in their ways. They can't change.

As Cecil Moore used to write in here, "If all you've got is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail." :-)

If CW had been on the ITU agenda back in '93, which it was supposed to
be, s25 would have been amended back then, and we could have seen an
explosion in our numbers before the Internet really caught on. As it
is, ham radio is as old as yesterday's newspaper. In short, it's
probably too late to get a major boost in numbers, even if we gave the
licences away, which abolishing the code test certainly doesn't do (and
no, I'm not proposing we make the theory easier).

Astute observation. I agree with most of that.

I will disagree only with the "what if" of 1993 and any
possibility of S25 being changed in any radical way. The IARU
had not yet been turned around on their collective code test
opinion, their member organizations still fixated on standards
and practices of their leaders' youth and formative years.
However, the no-code-test movement had already been started a
decade before that, albeit small, ineffectual in the beginning
but growing in intensity as time went on.

Judging by all the past reports of WARCs and WRCs, the IARU was
more influential with the ITU than what the ARRL pretended to be.
The IARU was also embroiled in a number of problems such as the
40m amateur v. SWBC allocations that was SUPPOSED to have been
addressed at WARC-79. It was put off...and put off...until
finally, after 24 years it achieved a solution at WRC-03...which
won't be fully implemented until a few years from now.

In the United States the ARRL still hasn't fully understood that
the 1991 opening up of the no-code-test Technician class license
added over 200 thousand NEW radio amateurs to the amateur
database. If that had not happened, the United States hams would
have SHRUNK in overall numbers in today's database...even though
the overall population is continuing to increase. As it is, the
number of amateur licensees here have been virtually stagnant for
over two years, NOT growing and decreasing a miniscule amount
since the 2003 peak period. The trend is THERE. The licensees
keeping the numbers up are the newcomers arriving via the no-
code-test Tech class. Unrenewed license attrition is greater.

The enormous worldwide growth of the Internet and availability of
personal computers has stolen MUCH of the "magic" out of the
"shortwave radio" mystique. That can't be regained by insisting
on the alleged "necessity" to learn and test for radio-
telegraphy...for a hobby. Morse code won't defeat terrorists or
save lives or be the First Responder on the scene of disasters.

Radio - by itself - still has tremendous fascination to many. It
may be that elimination of the code test will produce some
increase. Certainly, judging from Comments of WT Docket 05-235,
there will be a surge of "upgraders" to "higher" classes. That
does little to the overall license totals. The PC and Internet
is the Great Challenge to amateur radio for 24/7 personal
communications...almost gargantuan competition, already dwarfing
other competitors. The number of Comments on Docket 05-235,
after only two months, are GREATER than the total number of
Comments on "restructuring" (WT Docket 98-143) for all of 1998!
Most filings on 05-235 are done electronically. Over on
www.qrz.com, the electronic comments on code testing are greater
than four times the filings on 05-235 (I stopped reading them a
couple weeks ago...too many). We are IN the electronic digital
age NOW.

I'll go out on a limb and say that, should code testing be
abolished for amateur radio, the license totals might jump to
20% more than current numbers and then level off. Assumption
only, more of a guess than anything. The sky will fall on
the old amateur morsemen, the "world as they know it" will be
a total disaster zone with bitter, angry recriminations
abounding. They will ignore all the years, the decades of
themselves parading proudly as Champions of Radio and
sneering, snarling at no-coders.





The only point where I differ is that I'm personally convinced that
abolition of the Morse test would have been carried in the ITU in 1993 if
it could only have got to the floor. Those who delayed it did so precisely
because they knew that. The ITU is one country one vote, so the US is no
more influential there than Monaco or Luxembourg.

From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Sun 18 Sep 2005 07:19

" wrote in
From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am


The only point where I differ is that I'm personally convinced that
abolition of the Morse test would have been carried in the ITU in 1993 if
it could only have got to the floor. Those who delayed it did so precisely
because they knew that.

That's a typical tactic, found at any large conclave/conference.

The ITU is one country one vote, so the US is no
more influential there than Monaco or Luxembourg.

Only when it comes to the VOTE ITSELF. It's fairly obvious that
the larger-population countries have larger delegates (and the
'guests' who are not supposed to have any voting power). With
more people in a delegation, the more people there are to meet
with other delegations away from the assembly and do one-on-one
salesmanship for "their side."

Then you have the many months prior to a WRC where the delegates
have been largely identified on the ITU listings (plus their
hotels/lodgings per delegation identified) so that "salesmanship"
can be applied.

The major "salesmanship" effort is on OTHER radio matters, of
course, and - contrary to specific-interest-on-ham-radio groups -
is of a greater international importance in radio regulations.

The IARU as a collective body is larger than the ARRL and their
opinion-influence on the voting delegates is stronger than the
ARRL's influence. When the IARU came out against amateur radio
licensing code testing a year prior to WRC-03, that sent a
"message" (in effect) to other administrations' delegates, a
"set-up" for the future voting. The IARU had not yet been of a
consensus on S25 modernization the decade before WRC-03.

One problem of American radio amateurs is that they do NOT, as
a general rule, look any further than American ham radio
magazines for "news." While the ITU has a number of easily-
downloadable files on regulatory information, most of it is
available only to "members" on a subscription basis (members
would be "recognized" administration delegations or delegates).
They don't much bother with the FCC freely-available information
even though the FCC is their government's radio regulatory
agency. News that does get down to the individual-licensee
level is thus rather "filtered" by intermediate parties. That
makes it very easy for them to NOT spend time looking for news
elsewhere and they get to play with their radios longer. :-)
It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

wrote:
From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Sun 18 Sep 2005 07:19


" wrote in

From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am



The only point where I differ is that I'm personally convinced that
abolition of the Morse test would have been carried in the ITU in 1993 if
it could only have got to the floor. Those who delayed it did so precisely
because they knew that.


That's a typical tactic, found at any large conclave/conference.


The ITU is one country one vote, so the US is no
more influential there than Monaco or Luxembourg.


Only when it comes to the VOTE ITSELF. It's fairly obvious that
the larger-population countries have larger delegates (and the
'guests' who are not supposed to have any voting power). With
more people in a delegation, the more people there are to meet
with other delegations away from the assembly and do one-on-one
salesmanship for "their side."

Then you have the many months prior to a WRC where the delegates
have been largely identified on the ITU listings (plus their
hotels/lodgings per delegation identified) so that "salesmanship"
can be applied.

The major "salesmanship" effort is on OTHER radio matters, of
course, and - contrary to specific-interest-on-ham-radio groups -
is of a greater international importance in radio regulations.

The IARU as a collective body is larger than the ARRL and their
opinion-influence on the voting delegates is stronger than the
ARRL's influence.

The ARRL began the IARU and the IARU permanent headquarters is at
Newington. Most IARU member societies are very, very small. They don't
have many members and they don't have much money. The IARU HQ
frequently donates money so that third world delegates may attend.
In the past, one of these was Cassandra Davies 9L1YL, President of SLARS
(Sierra Leone Amateur Radio Society), also a licensing official at SLET,
the Sierra Leonian PTT. Many SLARS members were non-Sierra Leonian.
Average meeting attendance was between fifteen to twenty radio amateurs.

In Botswana, no natives of Botswana were BARS members. There were no
indigenous radio amateurs in Botswana despite yearly BARS classes in
theory, regs and morse. Most licensees were German, British, Indian,
South African or American resident citizens.

Guinea-Bissau had no resident radio amateurs much of the time. During
my two years in Bissau, there was a Swedish op, Bengt Lundgren J52BLU in
country for about four months. There was a DXpedition to the Bijagos
Islands by an Italian group which lasted a matter of days. For the
balance of my tour, I was the only licensed radio amateur in the country.

When the IARU came out against amateur radio
licensing code testing a year prior to WRC-03, that sent a
"message" (in effect) to other administrations' delegates, a
"set-up" for the future voting. The IARU had not yet been of a
consensus on S25 modernization the decade before WRC-03.

It wasn't much of a message for most African countries delegates.

One problem of American radio amateurs is that they do NOT, as
a general rule, look any further than American ham radio
magazines for "news."

You state that as a fact. It can only be an assumption on your part.
The internet has made it very easy for radio amateurs to find other
sources for news.

While the ITU has a number of easily-
downloadable files on regulatory information, most of it is
available only to "members" on a subscription basis (members
would be "recognized" administration delegations or delegates).

So, Joe Average Ham wouldn't be likely to subscribe in order to obtain
the material.

They don't much bother with the FCC freely-available information
even though the FCC is their government's radio regulatory
agency.

There's another assumption on your part.

News that does get down to the individual-licensee
level is thus rather "filtered" by intermediate parties.

Filtered how, Len? Do you mean that only information of interest to
radio amateurs is published, as a rule, in amateur radio magazines? Why
would it be otherwise?

That
makes it very easy for them to NOT spend time looking for news
elsewhere and they get to play with their radios longer. :-)

Do commercial ops and governmental ops have the same problem? Do they
waste time and isn't it easy for them to cut down on the time they have
to play with their radios? :-)

It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

I had a feeling that we'd get down to your intimating that there's some
conspiracy to keep radio amateurs in the dark.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Sun 18 Sep 2005 07:19
" wrote in
From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am

The only point where I differ is that I'm personally convinced that
abolition of the Morse test would have been carried in the ITU in 1993 if
it could only have got to the floor. Those who delayed it did so precisely
because they knew that.

That's a typical tactic, found at any large conclave/conference.

The ITU is one country one vote, so the US is no
more influential there than Monaco or Luxembourg.

Only when it comes to the VOTE ITSELF. It's fairly obvious that
the larger-population countries have larger delegates (and the
'guests' who are not supposed to have any voting power). With
more people in a delegation, the more people there are to meet
with other delegations away from the assembly and do one-on-one
salesmanship for "their side."

Then you have the many months prior to a WRC where the delegates
have been largely identified on the ITU listings (plus their
hotels/lodgings per delegation identified) so that "salesmanship"
can be applied.

The major "salesmanship" effort is on OTHER radio matters, of
course, and - contrary to specific-interest-on-ham-radio groups -
is of a greater international importance in radio regulations.

The IARU as a collective body is larger than the ARRL and their
opinion-influence on the voting delegates is stronger than the
ARRL's influence.

The ARRL began the IARU and the IARU permanent headquarters is at
Newington.

Kind of like the Radio League of Nations!

Most IARU member societies are very, very small. They don't
have many members and they don't have much money. The IARU HQ
frequently donates money so that third world delegates may attend.

Kind of like the League of Nations!

In the past, one of these was Cassandra Davies 9L1YL, President of SLARS
(Sierra Leone Amateur Radio Society), also a licensing official at SLET,
the Sierra Leonian PTT. Many SLARS members were non-Sierra Leonian.
Average meeting attendance was between fifteen to twenty radio amateurs.

Kind of like the Marianas Amateur Radio Club, MARC. Ask Jim about it
sometime.

In Botswana, no natives of Botswana were BARS members.

Oh, my! Sounds elitist.

There were no
indigenous radio amateurs in Botswana despite yearly BARS classes in
theory, regs and morse.

Oh, my! Sounds like institutionalized SOMETHING.

Most licensees were German, British, Indian,
South African or American resident citizens.

Hmmm? Them license classes must not have been very effective.

Guinea-Bissau had no resident radio amateurs much of the time. During
my two years in Bissau, there was a Swedish op, Bengt Lundgren J52BLU in
country for about four months. There was a DXpedition to the Bijagos
Islands by an Italian group which lasted a matter of days. For the
balance of my tour, I was the only licensed radio amateur in the country.

I wasn't the only licensed amateur in Korea, Guam, nor Somalia.

When the IARU came out against amateur radio
licensing code testing a year prior to WRC-03, that sent a
"message" (in effect) to other administrations' delegates, a
"set-up" for the future voting. The IARU had not yet been of a
consensus on S25 modernization the decade before WRC-03.

It wasn't much of a message for most African countries delegates.

Too busy cashing in on the foreign aid packages, probably.

One problem of American radio amateurs is that they do NOT, as
a general rule, look any further than American ham radio
magazines for "news."

You state that as a fact. It can only be an assumption on your part.
The internet has made it very easy for radio amateurs to find other
sources for news.

Excellent point! Please point me to the newsletter of the SLARS.
Please!

While the ITU has a number of easily-
downloadable files on regulatory information, most of it is
available only to "members" on a subscription basis (members
would be "recognized" administration delegations or delegates).

So, Joe Average Ham wouldn't be likely to subscribe in order to obtain
the material.

And SLARS members? They receive them via 1st class mail?

They don't much bother with the FCC freely-available information
even though the FCC is their government's radio regulatory
agency.

There's another assumption on your part.

Hmmmm? There's a trend in your claiming that Len assumes too much.

News that does get down to the individual-licensee
level is thus rather "filtered" by intermediate parties.

Filtered how, Len? Do you mean that only information of interest to
radio amateurs is published, as a rule, in amateur radio magazines? Why
would it be otherwise?

Nuts and Volts used to publish some amatuer material.

The Mother Earth News used to publish amateur mateiral.

Now most of it comes via just a few mouthpeices.

That
makes it very easy for them to NOT spend time looking for news
elsewhere and they get to play with their radios longer. :-)

Do commercial ops and governmental ops have the same problem? Do they
waste time and isn't it easy for them to cut down on the time they have
to play with their radios? :-)

What? No trade mags for the pros?

It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

I had a feeling that we'd get down to your intimating that there's some
conspiracy to keep radio amateurs in the dark.

Dave K8MN

No conspiracy. Most choose to be in the dark.

From: on Sep 20, 3:51 pm

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Sun 18 Sep 2005 07:19
" wrote in
From: Alun L. Palmer on Sep 17, 8:07 am


The IARU as a collective body is larger than the ARRL and their
opinion-influence on the voting delegates is stronger than the
ARRL's influence.

The ARRL began the IARU and the IARU permanent headquarters is at
Newington.

Kind of like the Radio League of Nations!

Almost...IARU was formed in 1925 (according to them...but what
do they know?).

President Wilson helped push for the League of Nations.

Most IARU member societies are very, very small. They don't
have many members and they don't have much money. The IARU HQ
frequently donates money so that third world delegates may attend.

Kind of like the League of Nations!

Wow! "Very, very small." Like the RSGB, the JARL, the
organizations of Germany, Australia, New Zealand...all "very,
very small" countries.

Tsk, tsk, for an ex-State Department person, Heil sure doesn't
get lavish on diplomacy...


In the past, one of these was Cassandra Davies 9L1YL, President of SLARS
(Sierra Leone Amateur Radio Society), also a licensing official at SLET,
the Sierra Leonian PTT. Many SLARS members were non-Sierra Leonian.
Average meeting attendance was between fifteen to twenty radio amateurs.

Kind of like the Marianas Amateur Radio Club, MARC. Ask Jim about it
sometime.

That's Jim Kehler, KH2D, to readers who weren't here years ago.

But, I wasn't aware that Side-Looking Airborne Radar Systems
(SLARS) were anything but a hard-point attached accessory...


In Botswana, no natives of Botswana were BARS members.

Oh, my! Sounds elitist.

Could be a religious-ethical thing...no hanging out in BARS.


There were no indigenous radio amateurs in Botswana despite
yearly BARS classes in theory, regs and morse.

Oh, my! Sounds like institutionalized SOMETHING.

Most licensees were German, British, Indian,
South African or American resident citizens.

They could have formed EARS...Embassy Amateur Radio Society.

Hmmm? Them license classes must not have been very effective.

Nor the society...nobody asked "ya got yer ears ON?"


Guinea-Bissau had no resident radio amateurs much of the time. During
my two years in Bissau, there was a Swedish op, Bengt Lundgren J52BLU in
country for about four months. There was a DXpedition to the Bijagos
Islands by an Italian group which lasted a matter of days. For the
balance of my tour, I was the only licensed radio amateur in the country.

I wasn't the only licensed amateur in Korea, Guam, nor Somalia.

Heil wanted EXCLUSIVITY. :-)

The major export of the country of Guinea-Bisseau is Cashews.
That's nuts.


When the IARU came out against amateur radio
licensing code testing a year prior to WRC-03, that sent a
"message" (in effect) to other administrations' delegates, a
"set-up" for the future voting. The IARU had not yet been of a
consensus on S25 modernization the decade before WRC-03.

It wasn't much of a message for most African countries delegates.

Too busy cashing in on the foreign aid packages, probably.

...or loading up outgoing ships with cashews. That's nuts.



You state that as a fact. It can only be an assumption on your part.
The internet has made it very easy for radio amateurs to find other
sources for news.

Excellent point! Please point me to the newsletter of the SLARS.
Please!


So, Joe Average Ham wouldn't be likely to subscribe in order to obtain
the material.

And SLARS members? They receive them via 1st class mail?


They don't much bother with the FCC freely-available information
even though the FCC is their government's radio regulatory
agency.

There's another assumption on your part.

Hmmmm? There's a trend in your claiming that Len assumes too much.

Yeah..."non-participants" aren't supposed to know anything. :-)


News that does get down to the individual-licensee
level is thus rather "filtered" by intermediate parties.

Filtered how, Len? Do you mean that only information of interest to
radio amateurs is published, as a rule, in amateur radio magazines? Why
would it be otherwise?

Nuts and Volts used to publish some amatuer material.

The Mother Earth News used to publish amateur mateiral.

Now most of it comes via just a few mouthpeices.

Actually it comes from a HANDFUL of EDITORS (and their publishers)
who do the deciding. Always has. ARRL has complete control over
the output of its own media. Always has.

If those few editors and their Associates put the words together
in the right way, they will CONVINCE the readership that they
are getting "all" the news.

Heil just doesn't get it...even at his advanced age...


Do commercial ops and governmental ops have the same problem? Do they
waste time and isn't it easy for them to cut down on the time they have
to play with their radios? :-)

What? No trade mags for the pros?

Actually there are quite a few "controlled subscription" trade
magazines (free subscription to those IN the industry). Heil
doesn't understand that professionals in radio work in NON-hobby
activity...for money. Maybe State plays with radios on the job?

I'm not sure if the NAB (National Association of Broadcasters)
has free periodicals...maybe they do to Members. Radio and TV
broadcasting only SEEMS like "playing around" to NON-pros.


It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

I had a feeling that we'd get down to your intimating that there's some
conspiracy to keep radio amateurs in the dark.

No conspiracy. Most choose to be in the dark.

It's the effect of the Darkness-Emitting Diode (DED) used by
morsemen to show the state of their keying. Morse = DED. :-)

[Heil doesn't have a sense of humor so the above is wasted on him]

It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

I had a feeling that we'd get down to your intimating that there's some
conspiracy to keep radio amateurs in the dark.

No conspiracy. Most choose to be in the dark.

It's the effect of the Darkness-Emitting Diode (DED) used by
morsemen to show the state of their keying. Morse = DED. :-)

[Heil doesn't have a sense of humor so the above is wasted on him]


===================================

Poor flatulent Lennie. A primo example of an Octogenarian "Gas Baggeous"
malcontentus.

wrote:
From: on Sep 20, 3:51 pm
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

It's also a ripe area for any group to do influence-control on
many without them realizing what is happening.

I had a feeling that we'd get down to your intimating that there's some
conspiracy to keep radio amateurs in the dark.

No conspiracy. Most choose to be in the dark.

It's the effect of the Darkness-Emitting Diode (DED) used by
morsemen to show the state of their keying. Morse = DED. :-)

[Heil doesn't have a sense of humor so the above is wasted on him]



Not wasted. He'll try his best to misinterpret, as he usually does...