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K4YZ wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "an old friend" wrote bull@@@@ Jim every movie or account of those days ........... I don't know what they taught you as a Colonel in the Chemical Corps,= but I was there on the blockade line (didn't watch some sensational movie versi= on) and Jim speaks truly. no he doesn't Yes, he does. not realy all the accounts of the matter make clear that we traded without appearing to trade the obselete jupiter bases It was HARDLY a "trade". We agreed to remove missles that were already obsolete and unservicible in return for the Russians dismantallying bases for "state-of-the-art" nuclear arms only 90 from home. it was not a fair trade but at the point it was made it served as a Fig leaf for the Soveit leader (whose name I not going to try speling on my own and I am not looking it up) but made in the face of what could have easily blown apart everything both sides though was valueble it likely looked pretty to K at the time Try "Missles of Oct" or "13 days" but I have never seen any historical or fictionalized account of those days that does not deal with that trade and assuming you were on the blockade line (I don't know but will give you the benifit of the doubt) that would be the last place to learn of such things "benefit" The benefit is not yours to give. sure is but then you don't respect any view but your own it was kept quiet for a time ( a few years) but I have known of the Jupiters and their trade off since I was 4 or 5 years old or put another way Under president Nixon in effect the next presidental term to follow JFK, the event happened before I was born but I learn ed of the crisis and the trade off at the same time in my youth Hey Mr Rocket Scientist... The Nixon Presidency was NOT the next administration for follow JFK. it was the next eletced one the next presidential TERM as I said And nice try about the "...but I have known..." line. Cute...Not true, but cute! entirely true USA Chemical corps never mentions the misslis of OCT or the cuban missle crisis at all in training "missles" "Cuban" Perhaps because you were never in the "USA Chemical corps", Mr Pathological Liar. Or have they "reactivated" your "commission" so you can justify lying in public again...?!?! neither stevie but such is not needed =20 Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "nobodys old friend" wrote not at all no one living in the times knows what was happening .... ....History can never be truly known till at al least 50 years after the fact What a humorous crock of ****! It isn't history when it's happening. = It's real life. Admiral Anderson had no real understanding of the presidents mind ... Admiral Anderson wasn't in charge of the quarantine. Admiral Alfred "C= orky" Ward was. What you learned at "4 or 5 years old" is a legend in your o= wn distorted mind. End of conversation. I do not abide fools, even fools who served as draftee-Colonels in the non-existent "USA Chemical Corps", another figm= ent of your "4 or 5 years old" mind. No doubt the "Colonel" was thinking of his CURRENT commander, "rear" Admiral Leonard "Lennie" H. (Hornblower?) Anderson, C-In-C of 1st NGLIEOFTENLIEBIG. The "Colonel" just forgot his place for a moment, Hans, that's all. you are obseesed with fake conspriascies little boy =20 73 =20 Steve, K4YZ |
an old friend wrote: wrote: K=D8HB wrote: wrote They valued warfare higher. As someone who has "been there, done that" I can assure you that nobo= dy values warfare except arms vendors. Warfare is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a method to OBTAIN some = thing or some result of value. Well said! JFK needed something that looked good to counter his critics about the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban missile crisis. "Been there, done that, got the medals both times". The only critics= of the results of the "Cuban missile crisis" wore poorly fitting suits and d= rank lots of vodka. Not the results but that the whole thing happened in the first place. IIRC, the Soviets were ticked off about the placement of Jupiter-C IRBMs in Turkey. Of course Turkey was and is a NATO country. Moscow's objection to the IRBMs was that they could hit targets inside the Soviet Union in minutes, and were virtually impossible to stop, compared to conventional bombers. They demanded that the IRBMs be removed, and of course NATO refused - even though the Jupiters were becoming outdated by ICBMs and submarine-launched missiles. So the Soviets retaliated by trying to install similar IRBMs in Cuba. Fortunately the preparations were discovered and their plans thwarted. But what was kept rather quiet is that some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters were quietly removed from Turkey. bull**** Jim Which part of what I wrote is not true, Mark? Perhaps you mean my reference to the Jupiter-Cs as "IRBMs" (Intermediate-Range-Ballistic-Missiles) which are elsewhere called "MRBMs" (Medium-Range-Ballistic-Missiles). every movie or account of those days mentions it Even if true, so what? Those movies and accounts were done long after the crisis. What I wrote is true: some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters were quietly removed from Turkey. That they were scheduled to be removed, were obsolete, and were already replaced by more-effective submarine-launched missiles and ICBMs is inconsequential. The point is that the Soviets backed down publicly and visibly, while *at the time*, the removal of the missiles in Turkey was kept quiet until long after it was an accomplished fact. and that the Jupiters were obsolete and scheduled for withdraw and the Kendy had ordered their withdraw several time Inconsequential - they were operational in October 1962 and were a big reason for the Soviets' actions in Cuba. Moscow figured that if the USA could have missiles so close to Soviet cities, then the USSR should have similar missiles at similar distances from US cities. That the Jupiters were actually meant to defend all of NATO, not just the USA, was lost on the Soviets. You also missed the point of the whole discussion: JFK pushed the "space race" in general, and the man-on-the-moon-before-this-decade-is-out, as a way to divert attention from the Soviets' early space successes, and Kennedy administration embarrassments like the Bay of Pigs. Space was a way to go mano-a-mano with the Rooskies *without* fighting, and while they had a head start, getting to the moon was far enough away that the USA had a good chance of getting there first. IOW, it *wasn't* about science, or exploration, or "the final frontier", new technologies, etc. Those things were side benefits - the main game was beating the Russians at something. But after July 1969, there wasn't another clear goal nor obvious opponent. In July 1975 the US and USSR did the joint Apollo-Soyuz mission, which would have been all but unimaginable ten years earlier. Just look at a partial list of early Soviet space "firsts": 1957 - Sputnik 1, first artificial earth satellite 1957 - Sputnik 2, first animal in space (Laika the dog) 1959 - Luna 2 impacts moon (intentionally!) 1961 - Vostok 1 - Yuri Gagarin is first human in space and first to orbit the earth 1962 - Mars 1 - First flyby of Mars 1964 - Voskhod 1 - First multiperson mission (three cosmonauts) 1965 - Voskhod 2 - Alexei Leonov makes first space walk 1966 - Luna 9 soft lands on the Moon and returns TV pictures 1966 - Venera 3 is first spacecraft to enter atmosphere of another planet (Venus) 1966 - Luna 10 orbits Moon (first spacecraft to orbit another world) Also the first woman in space, first pictures of the far side of the moon, and much more. And a "hot-line" was installed between Washington and Moscow so that things could be discussed more directly by the leaders of the two countries, and their representatives. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
nobodys old friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: No doubt the "Colonel" was thinking of his CURRENT commander, "rear" Admiral Leonard "Lennie" H. (Hornblower?) Anderson, C-In-C of 1st NGLIEOFTENLIEBIG. The "Colonel" just forgot his place for a moment, Hans, that's all. you are obseesed with fake conspriascies little boy "obsessed" "conspiracies" What conspiracy? I didn't address any "conspiracy", Mark. More delusions on your part. Steve, K4YZ |
nobodys old friend wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "nobodys old friend" wrote not at all no one living in the times knows what was happening .... ....History can never be truly known till at al least 50 years after the fact What a humorous crock of ####! It isn't history when it's happening. = It's real life. but the truth about current events is never known BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA= HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Admiral Anderson had no real understanding of the presidents mind ... Admiral Anderson wasn't in charge of the quarantine. Admiral Alfred "C= orky" Ward was. What you learned at "4 or 5 years old" is a legend in your o= wn distorted mind. Aderson certainly was in charge unless ward went off and founded his own navy "Anderson" I was again giving you the benift of the doubt Ward was further out of the loop than Anderson "benefit" It wasn't yours to give, Mark. End of conversation. promises pormises What an idiot. Can't even spell the same word right twice even when it's the ONLY word in the "sentence"... ! ! !=20 Steve, K4YZ |
an old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: KØHB wrote: "an old friend" wrote bull@@@@ Jim every movie or account of those days ........... I don't know what they taught you as a Colonel in the Chemical Corps, but I was there on the blockade line (didn't watch some sensational movie version) and Jim speaks truly. no he doesn't Yes, he does. not realy all the accounts of the matter make clear that we traded without appearing to trade the obselete jupiter bases It was HARDLY a "trade". We agreed to remove missles that were already obsolete and unservicible in return for the Russians dismantallying bases for "state-of-the-art" nuclear arms only 90 from home. it was not a fair trade but at the point it was made it served as a Fig leaf for the Soveit leader (whose name I not going to try speling on my own and I am not looking it up) That would have a been a tough one. How do you think you did with "Soviet", "spelling", "missiles" and "valueable"? but made in the face of what could have easily blown apart everything both sides though was valueble it likely looked pretty to K at the time Try "Missles of Oct" or "13 days" but I have never seen any historical or fictionalized account of those days that does not deal with that trade and assuming you were on the blockade line (I don't know but will give you the benifit of the doubt) that would be the last place to learn of such things "benefit" The benefit is not yours to give. sure is but then you don't respect any view but your own it was kept quiet for a time ( a few years) but I have known of the Jupiters and their trade off since I was 4 or 5 years old or put another way Under president Nixon in effect the next presidental term to follow JFK, the event happened before I was born but I learn ed of the crisis and the trade off at the same time in my youth Hey Mr Rocket Scientist... The Nixon Presidency was NOT the next administration for follow JFK. it was the next eletced one the next presidential TERM as I said I guess the truth wasn't known back in those days--you know, before it all became revealed in history. The rest of us probably had some strange idea that Goldwater ran against Johnson. Ever hear of it? Dave K8MN |
K4YZ wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: No doubt the "Colonel" was thinking of his CURRENT commander, "rear" Admiral Leonard "Lennie" H. (Hornblower?) Anderson, C-In-C of 1st NGLIEOFTENLIEBIG. The "Colonel" just forgot his place for a moment, Hans, that's all. you are obseesed with fake conspriascies little boy "obsessed" "conspiracies" What conspiracy? I didn't address any "conspiracy", Mark. the one you seem to think exist betwen myself Len Brain and maybe frank More delusions on your part. no you are the delusional fellow Steve, K4YZ |
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KY4Z wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "nobodys old friend" wrote not at all no one living in the times knows what was happening .... ....History can never be truly known till at al least 50 years after the fact What a humorous crock of ####! It isn't history when it's happening.= It's real life. but the truth about current events is never known BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA= HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! simple fact The Comenader at Midway did not know the what all was going one Ceaser's (Otavian) legion comanders did know what was going in the cvil war with Anthony hans can't have known what was going in the white house or at state Admiral Anderson had no real understanding of the presidents mind .= ..=2E Admiral Anderson wasn't in charge of the quarantine. Admiral Alfred = "Corky" Ward was. What you learned at "4 or 5 years old" is a legend in your= own distorted mind. Aderson certainly was in charge unless ward went off and founded his own navy "Anderson" I was again giving you the benift of the doubt Ward was further out of the loop than Anderson "benefit" It wasn't yours to give, Mark. it is solely mine to give, on my own behalf End of conversation. promises pormises What an idiot. Can't even spell the same word right twice even when it's the ONLY word in the "sentence"... ! ! ! no I can't some days but you know that, you know why (or you should by now) and yet you show you willing to bash and insult the disabled by going on and on OTOH do go ahead it saves me a lot of work with the targer audeince in showing you, and your side in various deabte your true colors =20 Steve, KY4Z |
wrote in message oups.com... an old friend wrote: wrote: KØHB wrote: wrote They valued warfare higher. As someone who has "been there, done that" I can assure you that nobody values warfare except arms vendors. Warfare is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a method to OBTAIN some thing or some result of value. Well said! JFK needed something that looked good to counter his critics about the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban missile crisis. "Been there, done that, got the medals both times". The only critics of the results of the "Cuban missile crisis" wore poorly fitting suits and drank lots of vodka. Not the results but that the whole thing happened in the first place. IIRC, the Soviets were ticked off about the placement of Jupiter-C IRBMs in Turkey. Of course Turkey was and is a NATO country. Moscow's objection to the IRBMs was that they could hit targets inside the Soviet Union in minutes, and were virtually impossible to stop, compared to conventional bombers. They demanded that the IRBMs be removed, and of course NATO refused - even though the Jupiters were becoming outdated by ICBMs and submarine-launched missiles. So the Soviets retaliated by trying to install similar IRBMs in Cuba. Fortunately the preparations were discovered and their plans thwarted. But what was kept rather quiet is that some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters were quietly removed from Turkey. bull**** Jim Which part of what I wrote is not true, Mark? Perhaps you mean my reference to the Jupiter-Cs as "IRBMs" (Intermediate-Range-Ballistic-Missiles) which are elsewhere called "MRBMs" (Medium-Range-Ballistic-Missiles). every movie or account of those days mentions it Even if true, so what? Those movies and accounts were done long after the crisis. What I wrote is true: some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters were quietly removed from Turkey. __________________________________________________ ____ End Quote Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for ratings. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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