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nobodys old friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "nobodys old friend" wrote not at all no one living in the times knows what was happening .... ....History can never be truly known till at al least 50 years after the fact What a humorous crock of ####! It isn't history when it's happenin= g=2E It's real life. but the truth about current events is never known BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! simple fact The Comenader at Midway did not know the what all was going one "commander" Was that a sentence? What has the commander at Midway have to do with the Cuban Missle Crisis? Or are you refering to the situation at Midway in 1942? Seems he knew a lot more than his adversary since between him, the COMSEC guys and some sneaky radio ops they figured out what the Japanese were up to. That's why a militarily superior force got whupped by a logistically strapped force. "...what all was going one..." WTF was that? Ceaser's (Otavian) legion comanders did know what was going in the cvil war with Anthony "Octavian" "commanders" "civil" Ya think the lack of spontaneous, simulataneous communications had anything to do with that? hans can't have known what was going in the white house or at state "Hans" "White House" Why couldn't he have? He was certainly in a much better position to know than YOU did at the time! Admiral Anderson had no real understanding of the presidents mind= =2E.. Admiral Anderson wasn't in charge of the quarantine. Admiral Alfre= d "Corky" Ward was. What you learned at "4 or 5 years old" is a legend in yo= ur own distorted mind. Aderson certainly was in charge unless ward went off and founded his own navy "Anderson" I was again giving you the benift of the doubt Ward was further out of the loop than Anderson "benefit" It wasn't yours to give, Mark. it is solely mine to give, on my own behalf No, it's not. There was NO doubt in ANYone's mind but yours, and only because you're ill-informed and typically running off at the mouth about topics for which you are ill-prepared. End of conversation. promises pormises What an idiot. Can't even spell the same word right twice even when it's the ONLY word in the "sentence"... ! ! ! no I can't some days What? The moon's gravity pulls your fingers one way or the other? Or you just hit your prescription meds and Jack Daniels a bit too hard the night before? but you know that, you know why (or you should by now) and yet you show you willing to bash and insult the disabled by going on and on I'm not "bashing" anyone. You're an incompetent, lazy punk. That's all. OTOH do go ahead it saves me a lot of work with the targer audeince in showing you, and your side in various deabte your true colors "target" "audience" "debate" T A R G E T...?!?! YOU'RE THREATENING ME! ! ! STALKER! STALKER! My "true colors" are red, white and blue, intertwined with USMC Scarlet and Gold. Yours are just white and yellow. Steve, K4YZ |
"K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... nobodys old friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: nobodys old friend wrote: KØHB wrote: "nobodys old friend" wrote not at all no one living in the times knows what was happening .... ....History can never be truly known till at al least 50 years after the fact What a humorous crock of ####! It isn't history when it's happening. It's real life. but the truth about current events is never known BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! simple fact The Comenader at Midway did not know the what all was going one "commander" Was that a sentence? What has the commander at Midway have to do with the Cuban Missle Crisis? Or are you refering to the situation at Midway in 1942? Seems he knew a lot more than his adversary since between him, the COMSEC guys and some sneaky radio ops they figured out what the Japanese were up to. That's why a militarily superior force got whupped by a logistically strapped force. "...what all was going one..." WTF was that? Ceaser's (Otavian) legion comanders did know what was going in the cvil war with Anthony "Octavian" "commanders" "civil" Ya think the lack of spontaneous, simulataneous communications had anything to do with that? hans can't have known what was going in the white house or at state "Hans" "White House" Why couldn't he have? He was certainly in a much better position to know than YOU did at the time! Admiral Anderson had no real understanding of the presidents mind ... Admiral Anderson wasn't in charge of the quarantine. Admiral Alfred "Corky" Ward was. What you learned at "4 or 5 years old" is a legend in your own distorted mind. Aderson certainly was in charge unless ward went off and founded his own navy "Anderson" I was again giving you the benift of the doubt Ward was further out of the loop than Anderson "benefit" It wasn't yours to give, Mark. it is solely mine to give, on my own behalf No, it's not. There was NO doubt in ANYone's mind but yours, and only because you're ill-informed and typically running off at the mouth about topics for which you are ill-prepared. End of conversation. promises pormises What an idiot. Can't even spell the same word right twice even when it's the ONLY word in the "sentence"... ! ! ! no I can't some days What? The moon's gravity pulls your fingers one way or the other? Or you just hit your prescription meds and Jack Daniels a bit too hard the night before? but you know that, you know why (or you should by now) and yet you show you willing to bash and insult the disabled by going on and on I'm not "bashing" anyone. You're an incompetent, lazy punk. That's all. OTOH do go ahead it saves me a lot of work with the targer audeince in showing you, and your side in various deabte your true colors "target" "audience" "debate" T A R G E T...?!?! YOU'RE THREATENING ME! ! ! STALKER! STALKER! My "true colors" are red, white and blue, intertwined with USMC Scarlet and Gold. Yours are just white and yellow. Steve, K4YZ Marky just likes to argue Steve. Don't confuse him with the facts. I especially enjoyed the part about the Cuban missle Crisis and the Commander at Midway......well you know. And Dee is correct, at least that is how I remember how it went in 1962. Shortly after the Russians pulled there missles out of Cuba we removed the obsolete Jupiters. No real loss since the Submarine missles and the new Atlas ICBM were coming or were already on line. Not to mention the lighter Hydrogen bombs available for use by the B-52 SAC Bombers. Dan/W4NTI |
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:58:53 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: snip That would have a been a tough one. How do you think you did with "Soviet", "spelling", "missiles" and "valueable"? Actually, the word is spelled "valuable"...... http://www.bartleby.com/61/56/V0015600.html Nice job on the other three, though! snip Dave K8MN 73, Leo |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "K4YZ" wrote in message Marky just likes to argue Steve. Don't confuse him with the facts. Quite correct. I especially enjoyed the part about the Cuban missle Crisis and the Commander at Midway......well you know. Well...Coming from a "guy" who was "drafted" at age 7 or 8 and forced to remain on active duty despite being an admitted deviant and pathological liar, I don't find ANYthing that comes out of Mark's "mouth" surprising anymore...ESPECIALLY since he's admitted what goes IN his mouth.... And Dee is correct, at least that is how I remember how it went in 1962. Shortly after the Russians pulled there missles out of Cuba we removed the obsolete Jupiters. No real loss since the Submarine missles and the new Atlas ICBM were coming or were already on line. Not to mention the lighter Hydrogen bombs available for use by the B-52 SAC Bombers. The story behind the Jupiter missles was nothing more than a "face saving" exercise for the Soviets. It allowed them to say, "See, we did get something out of the whole deal..." when in fact all we did was change from fixed base missles to seaborne. It's just one more "Markism" we can point at him and laugh about, Dan! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Careful, Marky the stalker will hit you with his purse.
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an old friend wrote:
wrote: an old friend wrote: wrote: K=D8HB wrote: wrote They valued warfare higher. As someone who has "been there, done that" I can assure you that = nobody values warfare except arms vendors. Warfare is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a method to OBTAIN s= ome thing or some result of value. Well said! JFK needed something that looked good to counter his critics about the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban missile crisis. "Been there, done that, got the medals both times". The only cri= tics of the results of the "Cuban missile crisis" wore poorly fitting suits a= nd drank lots of vodka. Not the results but that the whole thing happened in the first plac= e=2E IIRC, the Soviets were ticked off about the placement of Jupiter-C IRBMs in Turkey. Of course Turkey was and is a NATO country. Moscow= 's objection to the IRBMs was that they could hit targets inside the Soviet Union in minutes, and were virtually impossible to stop, compared to conventional bombers. They demanded that the IRBMs be removed, and of course NATO refused - even though the Jupiters were becoming outdated by ICBMs and submarine-launched missiles. So the Soviets retaliated by trying to install similar IRBMs in Cub= a=2E Fortunately the preparations were discovered and their plans thwart= ed. But what was kept rather quiet is that some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters we= re quietly removed from Turkey. bull**** Jim Which part of what I wrote is not true, Mark? that the Jupiter links with the cuban misle cris were unknown at the time That's the way it was. There were two parts to the resolution of the crisis: First, the Soviets removed their missiles and promised not to put such missiles or similar weapons so close to the USA in the future. This part was made public right away. Second, the USA and NATO removed the Jupiter-C missiles from Turkey some time afterwards. This part was kept secret and *not* publicized until long after the crisis was over. But don't take my word for it. Read the actual documents, many recently unclassified: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/ All sorts of good stuff on that site. For example, the Jupiters in Turkey only became operational in April, 1962. And at that time, the USSR had only about fifty nuclear-capable bombers and missiles that could reach the USA, while the USA had about ten times that many capable of reaching the USSR. the NY Times and Washington post had stories out within day of their withdraw Show us. it was comon knowledge with a few years The point is that *at the time of the crisis* the US agreement to remove the Jupiter-Cs from Turkey was kept very quiet, while the USSR's agreement to remove their missiles from Cuba was all over the front pages of the Western world. Perhaps you mean my reference to the Jupiter-Cs as "IRBMs" (Intermediate-Range-Ballistic-Missiles) which are elsewhere called "MRBMs" (Medium-Range-Ballistic-Missiles). every movie or account of those days mentions it Even if true, so what? that these account all list the withdraw *AFTER* the crises was long past. Not in October/November 1962, when the Soviet concessions were made. Those movies and accounts were done long after the crisis. What I wrote is true: some months after the Soviets backed down from installing their missiles in Cuba, the Jupiters were quietly removed from Turkey. the last is the falsehood the jupiters simply were not front page news Show us. That they were scheduled to be removed, were obsolete, and were already replaced by more-effective submarine-launched missiles and ICBMs is inconsequential. The point is that the Soviets backed down publicly and visibly, while *at the time*, the removal of the missiles in Turkey was kept quiet until long after it was an accomplished fact. deabtable the meaning of "long" by my count it was matter of few months. Then what you're really arguing over is how much time it takes to qualify as "long after". I call that short, indeed id say it was kept queist a shorter than most folks who do learn morse Code take to learn it Most people can learn Morse Code well enough to pass the current test in about 30 days - if they practice the right way. but in any event that was part of the deal the jupiter withdraw was mostly to help K setle matter matter with the politboro, not the public NK was removed from power within about two years (1964), with the handling of that crisis being a big factor. and that the Jupiters were obsolete and scheduled for withdraw and the Kendy had ordered their withdraw several time cut the waste of BW You mean the facts. The Jupiters in Turkey only became operational in April 1962. I suggest you and anyone interested check out the above website for the facts. btw, since K0HB was a USN radio operator involved in the quarantine, it's very possible he knew far more about what was going on - first hand - than you give him credit for. |
Dee Flint wrote: Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for ratings. Well said, Dee! There's also the fact that opinions differ about what is worth reporting and what is not, how much detail to report, how much history to tell, etc. It should also be remembered that before Vietnam and particularly Watergate, the US news media tended to avoid criticizing the current administration. They'd almost always give the president - indeed, almost anyone in the government - the benefit of the doubt, as it were. All that changed after Watergate. The following website: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/ includes a critique of the recent film "Thirteen Days", specifically pointing out how its omissions can leave the viewer with a rather distorted and inaccurate view of what caused the crisis in the first place. That film is recent, too, not 40 years old. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dee Flint wrote: Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for ratings. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, excellent, excellent post. That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s) that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down by the US government at the time. |
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