Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 27 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3174 1192

Indeterminate (note 1) 199 86

Value for Percentages 2975 1106

Against NPRM (note 2) 938 [31.36%] 379 [34.27%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1533 [51.53%] 497 [44.94%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 504 [16.94%] 230 [20.80%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 5 PM EDT 28 Oct 05.

Notes:

Notice of NPRM 05-143 appeared in Federal Register for 31 August
and established official end of Comments as 31 October 2005 and
official end of Replies to Comments as 14 November 2005. The left
column indicates totals for ALL dates. Right column indicates
all totals beginning 31 August 2005 to day of this scorecard.
It is unknown whether or not the FCC will consider Comments entered
prior to 31 August 2005, hence the two column format used here.
Fixed-font spacing used throughout.

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, two foreign resident
submissions, and six who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test. NPRM itself
(first docket document on 15 July) is counted as a "for."

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentages are calculated from Grand Totals less Indeterminates.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 28 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3199 1217

Indeterminate (note 1) 202 89

Value for Percentages 2997 1128

Against NPRM (note 2) 949 [31.66%] 390 [34.57%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1540 [51.38%] 504 [44.68%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 508 [16.95%] 234 [20.74%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 2 PM EDT 29 Oct 05.

Notes:

Notice of NPRM 05-143 appeared in Federal Register for 31 August
and established official end of Comments as 31 October 2005 and
official end of Replies to Comments as 14 November 2005. The left
column indicates totals for ALL dates. Right column indicates
all totals beginning 31 August 2005 to day of this scorecard.
It is unknown whether or not the FCC will consider Comments entered
prior to 31 August 2005, hence the two column format used here.
Fixed-font spacing used throughout.

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, two foreign resident
submissions, and six who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test. NPRM itself
(first docket document on 15 July) is counted as a "for."

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentages are calculated from Grand Totals less Indeterminates.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 31 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3599 1617

Indeterminate (note 1) 232 119

Value for Percentages 2367 1498

Against NPRM (note 2) 1100 [32.67%] 541 [36.11%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1679 [49.87%] 643 [42.92%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 588 [17.46%] 314 [20.96%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 1 AM EDT 1 Nov 05.

Notes:

Notice of NPRM 05-143 appeared in Federal Register for 31 August
and established official end of Comments as 31 October 2005 and
official end of Replies to Comments as 14 November 2005. The left
column indicates totals for ALL dates. Right column indicates
all totals beginning 31 August 2005 to day of this scorecard.
It is unknown whether or not the FCC will consider Comments entered
prior to 31 August 2005, hence the two column format used here.
Fixed-font spacing used throughout.

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, two foreign resident
submissions, and six who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test. NPRM itself
(first docket document on 15 July) is counted as a "for."

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentages are calculated from Grand Totals less Indeterminates.

This date is the last official day for Comments. There may be
additional entries made for 31 October by the FCC at a later
date. Official end of Replies to Comments is 14 November.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

wrote:
Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 31 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments

Not just Comments, Len. You counted Reply Comments and other filings,
including the NPRM itself, right?

on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3599 1617

Indeterminate (note 1) 232 119

Value for Percentages 2367 1498

Against NPRM (note 2) 1100 [32.67%] 541 [36.11%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1679 [49.87%] 643 [42.92%]

WHOA!

You mean that the majority did *NOT* support the NPRM?

The *MAJORITY* of filings do *NOT* support complete elimination
of the Morse Code test?

Even by *YOUR* counting methods?

Sunuvagun!

The majority wants at least some Morse Code testing, Len - like it or
not!

Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 31 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

[corrected version of previous posting for 31 October due to
81 additional entries made by FCC on 1 November]

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3680 1698

Indeterminate (note 1) 240 127

Value for Percentages 3440 1571

Against NPRM (note 2) 1133 [32.94%] 574 [36.54%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1697 [49.33%] 661 [42.08%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 610 [17.73%] 336 [21.39%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 9 PM EDT 1 Nov 05.

Notes:

Notice of NPRM 05-143 appeared in Federal Register for 31 August
and established official end of Comments as 31 October 2005 and
official end of Replies to Comments as 14 November 2005. The left
column indicates totals for ALL dates. Right column indicates
all totals beginning 31 August 2005 to day of this scorecard.
It is unknown whether or not the FCC will consider Comments entered
prior to 31 August 2005, hence the two column format used here.
Fixed-font spacing used throughout.

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, two foreign resident
submissions, and six who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test. NPRM itself
(first docket document on 15 July) is counted as a "for."

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentages are calculated from Grand Totals less Indeterminates.

This date is the last official day for Comments. There may be
additional entries made for 31 October by the FCC at a later
date. Official end of Replies to Comments is 14 November.

The future of U.S. amateur radio is being made, like it or not.

wrote:
Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:

As of 31 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:

[corrected version of previous posting for 31 October due to
81 additional entries made by FCC on 1 November]

ALL to Date Since FR Notice
-------------- ---------------
Grand Total 3680 1698

Indeterminate (note 1) 240 127

Value for Percentages 3440 1571

Against NPRM (note 2) 1133 [32.94%] 574 [36.54%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1697 [49.33%] 661 [42.08%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 610 [17.73% 336 [21.39%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 9 PM EDT 1 Nov 05.

Snip

Let's make the math easier:

Against NPRM (note 2) 1133 [32.94%] 574 [36.54%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 610 [17.73%] 336 [21.39%]
________
____________
50.67%
57.93%

For NPRM (note 3) 1697 [49.33%] 661 [42.08%]

The future of U.S. amateur radio is being made, like it or not.

If the FCC were mandated to accept the simple majority of
comments, either way you look at it, Morse Code testing (in the United
Staes) in one form or another would be staying for some time to come.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Opinions on NPRM 05-143:
As of 31 Oct 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention tabulation:
[corrected version of previous posting for 31 October due to
81 additional entries made by FCC on 1 November]

ALL to Date Since FR Notice

Grand Total 3680 1698
Indeterminate (note 1) 240 127
Value for Percentages 3440 1571

Against NPRM (note 2) 1133 [32.94%] 574 [36.54%]
For NPRM (note 3) 1697 [49.33%] 661 [42.08%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 610 [17.73% 336 [21.39%]

Tabulation in agreement with FCC ECFS as of 9 PM EDT 1 Nov 05.

(Snip)

Let's make the math easier:

Against NPRM (note 2) 1133 [32.94%] 574 [36.54%]
Test Extra Only (note 4) 610 [17.73%] 336 [21.39%]
________
____________
50.67%
57.93%

For NPRM (note 3) 1697 [49.33%] 661 [42.08%]

If the FCC were mandated to accept the simple majority of
comments, either way you look at it, Morse Code testing (in the United
Staes) in one form or another would be staying for some time to come.
Steve, K4YZ

IF the FCC were so mandated, but we all know they are
not bound by any "voting" analogy. What also is obvious
to those that have been around long enough is that
the current "score" is a dramatic shift from opinions
within the amateur community as compared to prior
efforts to "score" support (98-143) or back when the
first efforts to bring a nocode license began.

Playing your number realignment, you must admit
then that 68% of commentors DO support ending
code for General. THAT is dramatic in comparison
to past opinion analysis.

Consider too that
IF the FCC retained any level of code testing for
Extra then the FCC would/will have to reintroduce
waivers as the international treaty no longer provides
absolute minimal code requirements for any level.
That's a path that FCC just won't go down.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

And in agreement with what you wrote, IF the FCC had meant this to be a
popularity contest, then it would have been called a VOTE.

IF the FCC had meant to gather information and rationale regarding the
requirement for or against Morse Code testing then it would have been called
a COMMENT.

Care to look and see what the FCC called it?


Jim




If the FCC were mandated to accept the simple majority of
comments, either way you look at it, Morse Code testing (in the United
Staes) in one form or another would be staying for some time to come.
Steve, K4YZ

IF the FCC were so mandated, but we all know they are
not bound by any "voting" analogy. What also is obvious
to those that have been around long enough is that
the current "score" is a dramatic shift from opinions
within the amateur community as compared to prior
efforts to "score" support (98-143) or back when the
first efforts to bring a nocode license began.

From: Bill Sohl on Nov 3, 7:24 am

"K4YZ" wrote in message
wrote:


If the FCC were mandated to accept the simple majority of
comments, either way you look at it, Morse Code testing (in the United
Staes) in one form or another would be staying for some time to come.

IF the FCC were so mandated, but we all know they are
not bound by any "voting" analogy. What also is obvious
to those that have been around long enough is that
the current "score" is a dramatic shift from opinions
within the amateur community as compared to prior
efforts to "score" support (98-143) or back when the
first efforts to bring a nocode license began.

"Polls?" "Support?" About the ONLY thing available
there is ARRL writings, hardly an unbiased source of
"poll" information. Let's go through some history -

I started this "score card" posting at the beginning of
August as part of my own desire to get some "visibility"
into opinions as filed with the FCC. It isn't "official"
except the tallying has been done in an honest manner with
the best accuracy...such accuracy continuously verified
with the ECFS search engine totals for specified dates.

As of 1 PM EDT on 3 November 2005, there been 3,687 filings
in WT Docket 05-235 between the 2005 dates of 15 July to and
including 31 October. I've read ALL of those filings. I
have copies of ALL of those filings. Each and every filing
is available to anyone who has Internet access to the FCC.

In 1990 there was NO Internet for the public (it went public
in 1991). The Comments and Replies on 90-53 were only
visible by either subscribing to a copy service of the FCC or
going to their DC reading room in person. Just the same, the
final Report and Order DID create the no-code-test Technician
class license in 1991 and the numbers in that class have not
ceased growing in 14 years. Did the ARRL have some kind of
"poll" on those back then? I don't recall any from them or
from any other source. The MOVEMENT towards no-code-test
had begun years before.

In 1998 there was Internet access to the public and the FCC
had gone on-line with the beginning of their ECFS. They had
not fully organized clerical tasks and an examination of
WT Docket 98-143 will show several Petitions mixed in with
those for the "Restructuring" NPRM. That Docket was
extended more than once, finally getting an official end on
15 Jan 99. The only "poll" on those filings was done by
Leroy (Larry) Klose II. A masterful and complex task
involving several different subjects of the NPRM, it is
still in the ECFS as submitted, can be found by looking just
past 15 January 1999. The total comment time was about 11
months...from the first appearance date of first 98-143
comments to the official close of comments on 15 Jan 99.
The number of filings in that 11-month period were only
about 2200. Did the ARRL supply any "official poll" on
98-143? I don't recall any or even if they mentioned
Larry Klose' fine tabulation. Roughly 400 filings have
been submitted in the YEARS after the close of comments on
98-143, most past the final R&O 99-412 which essentially
voided any need for "more comments." Anyone with Internet
access can see all of those filings.

WT Docket 05-235 (about NPRM 05-143) has had 3,687 filings
in about 15 weeks, an average of over 240 per week. Has
there been any "official poll" from the ARRL about 05-235?
I haven't seen any. I haven't seen any from anyone else
which is one reason for my creation of this "score card."

Supposedly there IS another "poll" or "score card" done
elsewhere. A URL or other website information source has
not been revealed publicly in here. Those who are
interested in someone else's "score card" can go there...
or they can go in and READ ALL of them.

The only "polling" information I've seen on the code test
issue has been in the editorials of ARRL publications,
hardly an unbiased source about morse code use. The ARRL
has conditioned the thinking of generations of amateurs
into the belief that morse code skill was the very
epitome of amateur radio. On the other hand, the ARRL
membership has NEVER been greater than a quarter of all
licensed U.S. radio amateurs; as of July this year their
publicly-stated membership was only 20 percent. The
ARRL claims to "represent all amateurs" yet they will
only allow MEMBERS to vote on anything. They represent
NONE of those desiring to GET INTO amateur radio. The
ARRL is simply PRO-code-test and their ONLY Comment on
05-235 so far (filed 31 October, last official day) is
largely a STALLING tactic to attempt HOLDING any final
R&O until the far future...i.e., they IMPEDE progress.

I am ceasing public posting of any "score card" on WT
Docket 05-235. The official end of the Comment period
was reached on 31 October...but the official end of the
Replies to Comments period isn't until 14 November. I
will forward private e-mail tallies to those I select.
You are getting one, Bill.

I have received too many false charges of "inaccuracy"
and general "dishonesty" about my "score card" to make
it useless continuing this tally in public. NONE of
those crybaby finger-pointers have provided any
"improvements" to tallying opinions nor of providing
"greater accuracy." They have NOT proved a single charge
of "inaccuracy" nor of "dishonesty." They DO continue
to obscure this important issue in U.S. amateur radio
regulations with long, long, long postings alleged to
be "just questions" or "clarifications." They are
neither. They are HECKLING. Malicious heckling
probably done in hopes that I will not have any time
left but to post replies to their "just questions."

Not to worry on time. I can MAKE time for continuing
observation of NPRM 05-143 progress. I stand my ground
on what I've posted in public so far. Those who
charge "dishonesty" or "inaccuracy" had damn well
PROVE their point with EXACT locations. Negative
criticsm does nothing but further the "Animal House"
behavior that has polluted this venue called a news-
group for the last year.

Bill Sohl wrote:
"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

If the FCC were mandated to accept the simple majority of
comments, either way you look at it, Morse Code testing (in the United
Staes) in one form or another would be staying for some time to come.
Steve, K4YZ

IF the FCC were so mandated, but we all know they are
not bound by any "voting" analogy.

Exactly! FCC need only consider the comments, not act on
them.

What also is obvious
to those that have been around long enough is that
the current "score" is a dramatic shift from opinions
within the amateur community as compared to prior
efforts to "score" support (98-143) or back when the
first efforts to bring a nocode license began.

I disagree, Bill. Or rather, I'd say it's not that clear.

Back in 1998, NCI supported the concept of "5 wpm
now, complete elimination when the treaty changes".
That position got about 45% support (check Carl's
post of around that time when he reported KC8EPO's
tally of comments).

Now the NPRM proposes "complete elimination now
that the treaty has changed" but the support is
still about 45% of commenters.

So the support for total code test elimination isn't much different
than it was 7 years ago.

Playing your number realignment, you must admit
then that 68% of commentors DO support ending
code for General.

Yep. Exactly as proposed by ARRL.

THAT is dramatic in comparison
to past opinion analysis.

We don't really know that, do we?
There was never a serious proposal
before that suggested "code test for
Extra only" that I know of.

Consider too that
IF the FCC retained any level of code testing for
Extra then the FCC would/will have to reintroduce
waivers as the international treaty no longer provides
absolute minimal code requirements for any level.

Why would FCC "have to" do waivers? IIRC there's no
mention of waivers in the NPRM. The treaty's been
changed for almost 2-1/2 years but no waivers.

That's a path that FCC just won't go down.

Probably not.

One simple solution is the "Canadian compromise": Keep
code testing but change how it is scored. One method is
to change the requirement for Element 3 (General written)
to the following:

Element 3 can be passed by getting an ~85% grade on the
35 written questions *or* a ~75% grade and a passing mark
on the code test.

That way there's no "lowering of standards" yet the Morse Code
test is not a mandatory pass-fail standalone test any more.

73 de Jim, N2EY

which reminds me - time to update The Pool...