wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the
beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to
be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and
those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.


The Boy Scouts is a youth activity program led and supervised by the adults.
It is not an activity where the young are integrated into an adult activity
and participating on an equal footing. The Scoutmaster leads the troop. On
the other hand, in amateur radio, the 14 year old Extra can be a control op
at HF while the 60 year old Tech cannot. I.e. In ham radio, the license is
the controlling factor while age is irrelevant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the
beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to
be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and
those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.


The Boy Scouts is a youth activity program led and supervised by the adults.
It is not an activity where the young are integrated into an adult activity
and participating on an equal footing. The Scoutmaster leads the troop. On
the other hand, in amateur radio, the 14 year old Extra can be a control op
at HF while the 60 year old Tech cannot. I.e. In ham radio, the license is
the controlling factor while age is irrelevant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

So you think the Scoutmaster is the Merit Badge Coundelor?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the
beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend
to
be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and
those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.


The Boy Scouts is a youth activity program led and supervised by the
adults.
It is not an activity where the young are integrated into an adult
activity
and participating on an equal footing. The Scoutmaster leads the troop.
On
the other hand, in amateur radio, the 14 year old Extra can be a control
op
at HF while the 60 year old Tech cannot. I.e. In ham radio, the license
is
the controlling factor while age is irrelevant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

So you think the Scoutmaster is the Merit Badge Coundelor?


Didn't say that. Said scouts are under the supervision and leadership of
adults and not on an equal footing with the adults.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:

Didn't say that. Said scouts are under the supervision and leadership of
adults and not on an equal footing with the adults.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

There is no requirement for a merit badge counselor to be a scout
leader. There is no requirement for a scout leader to supervise a
scout and his merit badge counselor, however, the merit badge counselor
must fill out a form and be approved to perform as such.

The merit badge counselor works like the "Elmer" concept in amateur
radio. What do you think happens when the scout is going for his Radio
merit badge?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Didn't say that. Said scouts are under the supervision and leadership of
adults and not on an equal footing with the adults.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

There is no requirement for a merit badge counselor to be a scout
leader. There is no requirement for a scout leader to supervise a
scout and his merit badge counselor, however, the merit badge counselor
must fill out a form and be approved to perform as such.

The merit badge counselor works like the "Elmer" concept in amateur
radio. What do you think happens when the scout is going for his Radio
merit badge?


When the scout earns a merit badge, it does not put him on the same level of
authority and responsibility as the scout masters or leaders. That merit
badge does not make him the "equal" of the adults.

On the other hand, a 14 year old ham radio licensee has all the same rights,
privileges, and responsibilities as any other licensee of the same class.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:

When the scout earns a merit badge,
it does not put him on the same level of
authority and responsibility as the scout
masters or leaders. That merit
badge does not make him the "equal" of the adults.

Indeed.

Also interesting to note that the Scouts (both Boy and Girl) have
an elaborate system of "rank, status, and privilege" by which
they classify different members, and their accomplishments.

An "incentive" system, if you will.

On the other hand, a 14 year old ham radio licensee

....or a 10 year old, or an 8 year old...

has all the same rights,
privileges, and responsibilities as
any other licensee of the same class.

And it's been that way (in the USA) since at least 1912.

Yet the proponents of an age requirement for a USA-issued
amateur license cannot provide any evidence that the lack
of such a requirement has caused problems for the ARS.

More important, this lack of an age requirement plus the
anonymizing nature of Morse Code and the "data modes" has
promoted and supported a form of equality among hams of all ages
are/were very rare.

Perhaps it is this equality that bothers some people so much.

When I was a 13 year old calling CQ on
80 CW, those who heard my signal and answered did not know
I was a seventh-grader unless I told them.

When I was 14 and
NCSing section nets and taking traffic to the region net, (all
using Morse Code) no one asked or cared how old I was - they
only cared if I was a competent operator.

There's a teenager who has the distinction of being the youngest
ham to earn an Amateur Extra class license - which that ham did
at the age of 8. Our first QSO (using Morse Code, naturally) was
when that amateur was 10 - and I didn't find out about the age thing
until well into the QSO.

Why should there be an age limit for an amateur radio license?

73 de Jim, N2EY