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#1
November 27th 05, 01:47 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm
wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: Did you work for FCC in 1951, Len? Did you see FCC chuckling at handwritten letters? In 1951 I was working at my first full-time job, nowhere close to DC. So you don't really know what you're talking about when you talk about FCC "chuckling" over some comments. Having seen some of the handwritten "comments" sent in on the 2,272 filings in WT Docket 98-143 and ALL of the 3,795 filings in WT Docket 05-235, some are a hilarious barrel of laffs! :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] By the way, Docket 98-143 had 303 ADDITIONAL filings after the twice-revised final end date of 15 Jan 05, the latest being made on 5 August 2005! :-) 98-143 had an average of 206 filings per month while 05-235 had 949 per month. The percentage of written letter filings on 98-143 was 10.4 while on 05-235 it was only 2.2 percent. Things are a bit different now. Internet access to ALL government is faster than overnight express mail. FCC has to accept ALL filings. By law. It's always been that way, Len. Not before 1934. :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] What...no pointy remark to that? :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] Back about 1964 - a bit more than a dozen years after 1951, and more than 25 years before "the internet went public", the proposed changes that would come to be known as "incentive licensing" caused FCC to receive over 6000 comments. Back then the US amateur population was less than half what it is today, and practically all of them went by US mail. Did the FCC "chuckle" over them? Did you work for FCC in 1964, Jim-Jim? Did you see all those "6000" comments? No - but they existed, nonetheless. Riiiiight...you went to the Reading Room at the FCC to "see" them? Was a fairly easy access to documents before 11 September 2001. Oh, right...the ARRL TOLD YOU! Or you channeled St. Hiram on the subject and you got the number in a vision? 1964 is FORTY ONE YEARS AGO, old-timer. Two generations in time. CWO Johnny Walker had already gotten his first spy payments from the KGB. The Vietnam War was beginning to hot up again now that the French had given up there. Communist China was busy with their "cultural revolution." The beginning of the solid-state era had begun. Teletype Corporation was busy starting marketing for their 100 WPM teletypewriters. The first of the comm sats had been lofted. The Cold War was still set on "simmer" with no sign the flame had gone out. We got coast-to-coast TV, in color, and some radio amateurs thought manual morse code marked "excellence in radio!" :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] In 1964 I was Chief Engineer at Birtcher Instruments Division and had received my Army Honorable Discharge four years before that. In other words, you had nothing to do with FCC then, either. "Nothing?!?" Mais non! Eight years prior to 1964 I'd already passed my First Phone test and had been working at four broadcast stations (got the signatures on the back of my First Phone license certificate). Had already renewed that First Phone once...through the Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office (which was/is in the San Pedro harbor area). I'd applied for, and gotten two CB licenses (no test, never was a test for them). I'd already worked at a southern California broadcast station on a part-time basis, got that signature on the back of my first renewed First Phone certificate. I was still subscribing for updates to the FCC regulations (loose leaf format) from the U.S. GPO but that would soon change to bound format, reprint every two years (too many radio services already). I'd already used that First Phone for radio communications while a student pilot (given up due to cost of private flying vs other expenses), avoiding having to get a Restricted 3rd Class Phone (which required some letters of explanation from the Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office to the instructors at Skyways that operated out of Van Nuys Airport...they didn't believe it). In my job of designing and engineering semiconductor test sets at Birtcher, all I had to do on "FCC matters" was making certain those test sets and their plug-ins didn't exceed incidental RF radiation limits (the very low-duty cycle plug-ins were found to cause RF oscillation at tester pulse edges, solved by using ferrite tubes as chokes on the test socket leads). A renewal of the CBs was coming up soon, those renewals, pro forma as they were, had to go to the FCC...and with notary public seals. Electro-Optical Systems in Pasadena was busy hiring for their spacecraft work and I shift to there from Monterey Park, CA, in late 1964. Spacecraft fabrication in a clean room didn't involve any "FCC licenses." What RF work was needed took place under government radio regulations, not civil radio. FCC was not involved in government radio then...or now. [ chuckle, chuckle ] No, sweetums, I was NOT opining anything pro/con on morse code skill as the primus inter pares of amateur radio operating excellence nor had I any "incentives" for ham radio in 1964. Based on my "first job in radio" I already knew that morse code was a dead end in radio in 1964, 41 years ago. Why bother pursuing a dying technique back then? [ chuckle, chuckle ] |
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#2
November 28th 05, 10:26 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
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#4
November 29th 05, 01:46 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm
wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: Having seen some of the handwritten "comments" sent in on the 2,272 filings in WT Docket 98-143 and ALL of the 3,795 filings in WT Docket 05-235, some are a hilarious barrel of laffs! :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] So you really don't know what you're talking about when you talk about FCC "chuckling" over some comments. he can make the same assumetion you can Mark, there's something curious about morsemen. They are very SERIOUS about their hobby and INTENSE on certain skills. Their sense of humor is limited only to THEM "laughing" at those who disagree on telegraphy testing. BTW, there's 3,796 filings now, one was added on the 28th. :-) By the way, Docket 98-143 had 303 ADDITIONAL filings after the twice-revised final end date of 15 Jan 05, the latest being made on 5 August 2005! :-) Why does that matter? becuase it isn't suposed to hapen at least if it does they are all supose to have been mailed before the deadline The specific date periods on comments applies to the Commission's activities on decision-making for a final Memorandum Report and Order. That date period is determined by statements made in the publishing of a docket/proceedure in the Federal Register. Standard practice at the FCC. In the case of publishing NPRM 05-143, the Commission was 6 calendar weeks LATE. NPRM 05-143 was opened to the public on 19 July 2005. Publishing in the Federal Register didn't happen until 31 August 2005. The date period for comments was not specifically stated in NPRM 05-143, was specifically stated in the Federal Register on 31 August 2005. The normal delay on public release to publishing is anywhere from zero days to a week. A few have taken longer, but it would be a VERY long search to find a docket/proceeding that was delayed SIX WEEKS. In those SIX WEEKS DELAY the public filed 52% of all comments filed. The "public" may not be fully aware of the official comment period beginning date. The Commission is fairly speedy on getting proceedings published in the Federal Register. The "public" does not consist of just attorneys and beaurocrats handling law, so they would generally be unaware of that delay. Such a long time was unexpected. why does it seem you don't care about the rul of of law when it suits you Jimmy Noserve only cares about the preservation of morse code, everything from "operating skill" to the license test. He can't bear to give up any of that. Oh, right...the ARRL TOLD YOU! Or you channeled St. Hiram on the subject and you got the number in a vision? FCC received over 6000 comments on the "incentive licensing" proposals, Len. Without the internet. That's a fact. indeed shwoing what a disaster the idea was how the ARRL tired to kill the ars Mark, Jimmy has NOT proven his "fact." The only way to determine that "fact" is to visit the FCC Reading Room in DC and view all the filings. Those old dockets and proceedings aren't on-line. As to "disaster," that is subjective opinion. In the long run, "incentive licensing" only served to harden the class distinction among licensees. It got too cumbersome for the future to the Commission, so they streamlined it via FCC 99-412. The League lobbied for, and got "incentive licensing." Old-timers of the League loved radiotelegraphy, following the "tradition" established by its first president, St. Hiram. Old-timers wanted to prove Their radiotelegraphy skill was the "highest" attribute of amateurism. They got it, complete with rank- status-privilege. Especially the privileges. They were better than anyone...in their minds. The beginning of the solid-state era had begun. The beginning had begun? Third graders write better than that, Len. bad jimmie Stevie job is to play speling cop Sister Nun of the Above got into the act, spanking ruler at the ready. She didn't hit anything, though. Sister apparently has never used the word "jibe," thought I was "jiving her." :-) You weren't a ham then and you're not one now. Morse Code is one form of excellence in radio, btw - then and now. only in your opinion and that of others Up to mid-2000, the highest-rate telegraphy skill was NECESSARY to achieve the "highest" class license. IMO it has been one of the banes of the ARS for decades True enough. But, look out, I can see Sister approaching with her ruler! She is going to criticize use of the word "bane!" :-) In other words, you had nothing to do with FCC then, either. "Nothing?!?" Mais non! Nothing. You didn't work for FCC, didn't have anything to do with FCC rules for the Amateur Radio Service. a flat out lie Jim he has had something to do with making the FCC rules as has Myself Bil Sohl yourself and a couple of thousand others Jimmy is getting desperate on "having to do with" stuff. :-) The FCC has had commentary periods for nearly all the major issues affecting U.S. radio amateurs since its creation in 1934. [exceptions are federal orders to cease transmission on Presidential orders and the "housekeeping" changes to Parts of Title 47 which regarded legal clarification of some regulations corrections] The Constitution of the United States gives all its citizens the Right to address their government...on anything. The comment period of dockets and proceedings at the FCC is one way to do that on specific radio regulatory issues. Jimmy seems very territorial. He regards federal amateur radio regulations as "private turf" which can ONLY be discussed by licensed radio operators to their government. That is wrong. The FCC must listen to ALL...including English teachers who haven't the foggiest notion of what "radio" is, let alone amateur radio (she had to research the subject through WikiPedia). :-) Both Bill Sohl and Carl Stevenson have appeared in-person before the FCC in regards to the code-test/no-code-test issue. That's about as close as ANY in here have been to the regulation-decision-makers without actually working there (as Phil Kane did). The Staff and Commissioners at the FCC decide what is to be changed and how to change radio regulations...DEPENDING on input from the "public." [a "researching" of Parts 0 and 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. will explain that, also the Communicaitons Act of 1934, a Law passed by Congress] Had already renewed that First Phone once...through the Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office (which was/is in the San Pedro harbor area). I'd applied for, and gotten two CB licenses (no test, never was a test for them). Did FCC ever turn anybody down for a cb permit? Are you still on cb, Len? why should he not be on CB Citizens Band Radio Service had "permits?" :-) Strange, my forms said they were LICENSES. No tests at all required. Were any "turned down?" I don't really know. I've heard of those but never met anyone who was "turned down." I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. My old Johnson Viking Messenger CB radio still works, is still operating within FCC regulations. It is a relatively easy task to connect it up to an antenna (mag-mount) in the car, plug it into the car's 12 VDC system, and operate. If the vibrator high-voltage supply will continue working, it is as reliable as any old tube radio. [vibrator supplies were NEVER considered reliable, but they were terribly cheap in consumer grade tube equipments] Living within a mile of I-5 passing through has shown that a few channels for CB are way too few for the hundreds of thousands of CB users...years ago. Cbers seem by and large politeir than hams with folks they disagree with they can be a bit vulgar for my taste on the air, but there are 40 channels to choose from Irrelevant to Jimmy's remarks. All Jimmy wants to do is show contempt for CB. Since he was living in 1958 when that service (on the 27 MHz band) was created, he feels contemptuous of all who have not taken a federal test to "qualify" for radio transmission below 30 MHz. :-) [I think he was born an amateur...:-) ] CB communications are "Too vulgar?" I've heard much, much greater vulgarity in the military service (which Jimmy was never a part of nor will he ever be). I've heard greater vulgarity on shop floors from union members. I've heard greater vulgarity in the black sections of Los Angeles. I need to brush up on my Spanish to find out if the language there in the barrios is "too vulgar." :-) Like I said - you had nothing to do with amateur radio policy back then, nor with FCC's regulation of amateur radio... more lies Jim Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Jimmy is just being "vulgar." :-) Based on my "first job in radio" I already knew that morse code was a dead end in radio in 1964, 41 years ago. Well, you were wrong, Len. Because Morse Code is still alive and well in radio today. Tsk, tsk, Jimmy's working receiver can't pick up anything but the "low end" of the HF amateur bands...and he thinks that radiotelegraphy is still a big mode in radio? Incredible! Why bother pursuing a dying technique back then? Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). How many techniques did you pursue back then which are long gone - dead - now? Does anybody use 100 wpm teletypewriters anymore? Do broadcast stations have FCC licensed engineers on duty while they're on the air anymore? Etc. Actually, those electromechanical teletypewriters with 100 WPM throughput are still in use in a few places...but they are waaayyyyyy down in numbers. Teletype Corporation went defunct some years ago...they couldn't produce a product inexpensive enough to handle written communications needs. Even TDDs have dropped electromechanical teletypewriters in favor of smaller, easier to use solid-state terminals. The requirements for licensed COMMERCIAL radio operators at radio broadcasting stations is down but I haven't checked to see if broadcasting regulations changed to allow ALL. An amateur radio license was NEVER a "qualification" to operate anything but an amateur radio on amateur frequencies. Vacuum tube design and use in designs is almost kaput. The solid-state devices made most of them obsolete. Tubes remain only as very high-power transmitter final amplifiers, as wideband (one octave plus) amplifiers in microwaves, as magnetrons in microwave ovens, as assorted klystrons in microwave radios. CRTs are going bye-bye, replaced by solid- state displays in TV sets (to press a ****y point, "liquid- state" in LCD screens). A very few optical detection devices use multi-stage photomultipliers. NODs (Night Observation Devices) still depend on a special photodetector and photon multiplier tube set. Oh, and high-power radars still use pulsed maggies for those transmitters. Tubes are now used only as REPLACEMENTS...except by those who can't hack engineering of solid-state circuits...or long for days of yore, when they were born (or before). Your value system is very clear, Len - if something in radio took some of your time or effort but didn't pay back in dollars, you avoided it. if your statement is accurate (not comenting on that yea or nea) so what you value nothing without involing Morse Code Poor Jimmy is verging on a breakdown. He is picking up on the old socialist or communist sloganeering against evil, filthy capitalists who have obtained money the old fashioned way... they EARNED it! Jimmy sounds like he doesn't have much money. Tsk, tsk. I entered electronics and radio in the vacuum tube era and learned how to design circuits using tubes. Had to put aside everything but the basics of those circuits in order to work with transistors, then ICs. Took lots of learning AND relearning to do all that and I did it on my own time. It was worth it in the knowledge acquired, the experience gained in making successful designs, eminently satisfactory to me. Lots and lots of new things were learned out of sheer interest in learning more about NEW areas, things that were NOT of personal monetary gain. Jimmy can't shift out of his League-conditioned thinking about morsemanship being the ultimate skill in radio. He doesn't understand how it is to BEGIN in HF communications WITHOUT any morse code mode needs. He must really resent others who've entered the bigger world of radio communications without being required in any way to be morsemen. you can use money to feed yourself can't do that with morse One can waste a LOT of time looking for radiotelegraphy jobs! Those are quite scarce! If Jimmy wasn't so old, he could join the Army and be an "army of one" analyzing foreign morse code radio intercepts (but I'll bet he would hate the Ft. Huachuca M.I. school in the summertime). I doubt there is one job opening in the entire USA that requires any manual telegraphy (morse code) skills for wired communications now. If he joined SAG or SEG he might get a part in some western movie or TV show as an actor playing the part of a telegrapher. Well, Jimmy could go to sea if he got a Radiotelegraph (Commercial) license. Problem is, he'd have to use SSB voice, one of the TORs (Teletypewriter Over Radio), and VHF FM voice for most ship masters. Jimmy wouldn't like that. He couldn't pop into the galley and cook big turkeys at his whim. Confusion say: Man with one-track mind often get train of thought derailed. bit bit |
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#6
December 1st 05, 11:49 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:26:39 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: Mark, there's something curious about morsemen. I'm sure that you find any number of things curious, Leonard, like why would anyone devote the time and energy to learning a skill which can earn them no money and which you believe is quite useless? at the risk of being wrong lety me guess Len does not find that curious They are very SERIOUS about their hobby and INTENSE on certain skills. Perhaps you meant that they put serious effort into learning the material required for obtaining an HF amateur radio license and were INTENT on passing the exams. nope I am sure he did not mena it so you are trying by infeence Their sense of humor is limited only to THEM "laughing" at those who disagree on telegraphy testing. Since you are on the outside of amateur radio and you disagree on morse code testing, I can understand how you came to that conclusion. Radio amateurs who favor retention of the morse test can and do laugh at many other things. You write only from your experience. gee the insiders come to that conclusion too the insider and the outsider both agree The beginning of the solid-state era had begun. The beginning had begun? Third graders write better than that, Len. bad jimmie Stevie job is to play speling cop Sister Nun of the Above got into the act, spanking ruler at the ready. She didn't hit anything, though. I'm sure I heard a dull thud as you were struck amidships. now you are hearing thing Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#7
December 2nd 05, 12:26 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
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#8
December 2nd 05, 12:06 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:26:17 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. You're quite right, sir. A cell phone meets your needs. You needn't bother with CB or amateur radio. indeed he NEED and you need not My old Johnson...still works... That's nice. Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Will you ever work IN the FCC, Len? is something lacking in your reading skil dave it seems that way Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). Does your venerable Icom receiver still hit the bottom end of the HF ham bands, Leonard? You must think morse code is dead, poor morse is dead (as if Gordon McRae were singing it out by the corral). no he doesn't think is dead just dying I do too just not fast enough you Jim and steve certain makes a decent case for the notion that CW uUSE casues brain damage in some people Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#9
December 3rd 05, 09:53 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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An English Teacher
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:26:17 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. You're quite right, sir. A cell phone meets your needs. You needn't bother with CB or amateur radio. indeed he NEED and you need not My old Johnson...still works... That's nice. Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Will you ever work IN the FCC, Len? is something lacking in your reading skil dave it seems that way Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). Does your venerable Icom receiver still hit the bottom end of the HF ham bands, Leonard? You must think morse code is dead, poor morse is dead (as if Gordon McRae were singing it out by the corral). no he doesn't think is dead just dying I do too just not fast enough you Jim and steve certain makes a decent case for the notion that CW uUSE casues brain damage in some people Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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