If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

Um.... you know, just saying "I agree" would have been a lot simpler and
saved you 2 pages of typing.... LOL.
rb



wrote in message
oups.com...
From: Woody on Tues, Aug 22 2006 12:50 pm


The Titanic knew their coordinates.... didn't slow the influx of H20....
The responding ships had radios too... didn't turn their props any
faster....

The year was 1912...NINETY-FOUR YEARS AGO.

Answer to the question.... there was no system then.

The predecessor organization for SOLAS had not yet made 500 KHz
the international distress and safety frequency. "SOLAS" is an
acronym for Safety Of Life At Sea.

CW can punch through if there is a human on the other end, where
GPS/packet
says 'no signal'....
GPS is faster, where CW takes longer....
so one is obsolete, the other inferior.

The International Maritime Community settled the 'morse issue.'
They DROPPED it in favor of GMDSS (Global Marine Distress and
Safety System), a semi-automated system which can be operated
by anyone of the bridge crew on a ship (it needs little
instruction on use). GMDSS messages are automatically routed
to ground stations (note plural) via satellite relay. Those
ground stations can coordinate rescue missions.

A shipboard GMDS station doesn't HAVE to have a GPS receiver
to feed it position data but all those which have one have
no complaint about this alleged "loss of signal." Position
data can be entered manually to a GMDS station. The bridge
crew will have a running record of the ship's position in
either event.

The United States Coast Guard has DROPPED continuous
monitoring of the 500 KHz distress frequency some years
ago. Several other countries have done so.

A following question is WHO will you believe on the efficacy
of communications? The entire international maritime
community or a bunch of myth-happy amateur morsemen?

In a sentient, intelligent mind, ANY form of communications
is good for use in matters involving life and death. The
FCC thinks (rightly) so and says as much in Part 1 of Title
47 C.F.R. [Part 97 is not the entirety of regulations on
amateur radio in the USA]

--------------------

In a preceding message set:

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
Dave wrote:
David G. Nagel wrote:

A ham operator intercepted the SOS from the RMS Titanic.

Yep!! It happened once!

It happened NINETY-FOUR YEARS AGO.

If CW had not existed at the time, how would things have
turned out differently? If the present GPS-based system
had existed at the time, how would things have turned out?

I have to fault Cecil's erudite and intelligent mindset
on that...although his motor looks good in his picture. :-)

One CANNOT base any intelligent argument about ALTERNATE
universes of different times and places. It hasn't
happened in our present time-space continuum.

In 1912 "radio" was in its infancy, having been first shown
and demonstrated as a communications medium just 16 years
prior. There were extremely few ships which had vacuum
tubes as active devices to aid those first "radios." The
tube was only 6 years old, the triode invented in 1906.

To argue about "GPS" (which is not an integral part of
GMDSS but can be) versus morse code is ludicrous. GPS
relies on a time-frequency standard within each of the
24 GPS satellites which is comparable to the best time-
frequency source at NIST. [the quartz crystal
oscillator wasn't yet invented in 1912] Each satellite
needs solid-state circuitry to make it function within
a relatively small package. [the best "solid-state"
device of 1912 was a galena crystal detector with its
famous "cat's whisker"] The whole GPSS needed rocketry
advanced enough to put all the satellites into orbit.
[rocketry wasn't perfected for that purpose until after
WW2] Those rockets needed launch guidance aided by
radar systems. [radar, or rather a primitive system of
it, wasn't tried until 1932 in a harbor area of France]

However, "morse code" was used in the landline Morse-Vail
Telegraph System working before the American Civil War
and simple enough to turn a spark transmitter on and off
as on the Titanic.

Which system is presently inferior and virtually obsolete?

On-off keyed CW.

Except in the mindset of the ARRL. The IARU knows better.

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

"Woody" wrote in message
news:N6JGg.27193$uV.6302@trnddc08...
uhhhh..... good point. Not sure what your point applies to... but OK, we
all
agree that radio is a useful invention.
What were we talking about again?

rb


"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...
an old friend wrote:
David G. Nagel wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:


Dirk wrote:


Ham's care more about operating appliances than knowing how to save a
lives.


How many times in the entire history of amateur radio
has a ham used CW to actually save a life? One would
think there would be a book full of examples by now.

A ham operator intercepted the SOS from the RMS Titanic.

how many life were saved thereby the Carpathia wheard the call and
arrived to save some folks what role did the ARS playing in saving even
one life that sorry day?


We aren't talking about failure to receive a CW SOS. Those ships that
responded did so after receiving word of the sinking by radio. They
saved
many lives from the lifeboats which would otherwise have been lost to
the
cold.

Dave N

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
t...
jawod wrote:
If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit
pretentious and downright silly.

Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement.
That was the whole point.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

As the little munchin said in the Wizard of Oz - opening up the window to
Dorothy's insistent knocking - and she finally got her point across - "well
now - that's a horse of a different color - why didn't you say so!"

L.

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

wrote:
From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm


wrote:
From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm
If the league pushes the morse testing issue too hard, it will become
obvious to the 25% that are members.

I don't think so. The Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society is very
firmly SET in their ideas of keeping the "heritage" and
"tradition" of being a living museum of archaic radio. Those
firm believers and worshippers at the Church of St. Hiram are
disciples and they haven't had their last supper yet.

I have no objection to them trying to prservs thier mode the ARS is big
enough even for unproductive thing

It's "minority rule" when ARRL lobbies for preservation of
morse code test for any amateur radio license class. The
ARRL membership is slightly less than a quarter of all US
amateur radio licensees.

The ARRL is trying to soften their image - the latest QST shows a
person using a, gulp, microphone on the FRONT cover!

Just inside is yet another article on building a code key - from a door
hinge.

Don't know if you've heard yet, but the ARRL and robesin announced that
MARS and TSA have an agreement for armageddon communications.

Heh heh, I wouldn't doubt it... :-)

[via "giant meteor bounce?" ... off the earth, that is? :-) ]

I thought Robesin had put on his (invisible) USMC uniform and
was busy pounding brass with the USCG offshore from Beirut to
evacuate US civilians? :-)

now that remark I must take you to task for

the last thing we want to sugest that robeson might wear is something
invisible now that image IS a sexauly distrubing one

Ahem...my reference was the old fairy tale, "The Emperor's New
Clothes." :-)

That's the one where a full-of-himself ruler ordered some new
clothes and the tailor buttered him up (while not sewing any
new clothes) so much that the Emperor bought into this pandering
to his ego and appeared in public with his "new clothes" (he was
naked). Needless to say, the public laughed and laughed at this
ridiculous spectacle. :-)

Robeson has been all full of himself in here about his alleged
"USMC service" yet he has presented zero-point-zero evidence
from anyone else (or any legitimate agency) that he ever
served on active USMC duty for any of his claimed "18 years."

Even though he NOW thinks of himself AS the amateur radio
service personified (anything against him is somehow against
ALL radio amateurs), he is still parodying the "Emperor."



This just in from The ARRL Letter, Vol. 25, No. 33, August 18, 2006

"ARRL First Vice President Kay Craigie, N3KN, represented the League at
the
Global Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Conference 2006."

"Craigie stressed that Amateur Radio needs to avoid "being dazzled by
our
own press clippings into thinking that we are the big dog in emergency
telecommunications.""

She refers to robesin-like attitudes within the ARS.

didit!

If you had to use CW... would robesin still be an idiot?
 

K4YZ wrote:
LenCan'tPassThe wrote:
From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm

Geee? Robesin is still forging attributes... Some things just never
change.

Don't know if you've heard yet, but the ARRL and robesin announced that
MARS and TSA have an agreement for armageddon communications.

Heh heh, I wouldn't doubt it...

"Armageddon"...?!?!

No one announced "armageddon" in any release that I am aware of.

Why did you?

Yet more evidence of why it's better to have Lennie "Can't Pass An
Exam" Anderson on the outside looking in.

Steve, K4YZ

The ARRL Letter, Vol. 25, No. 33, August 18, 2006

ARRL First Vice President Kay Craigie, N3KN, represented the League at
the
Global Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Conference 2006:

"Craigie stressed that Amateur Radio needs to avoid "being dazzled by
our
own press clippings into thinking that we are the big dog in emergency
telecommunications.""

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

"Woody" wrote in
news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08:

Well there ya have it folks.... 50wpm saves lives. So how does it
work? Turn up the speaker really loud and place it [face down] on the
person's chest, while
an op in South America tapped out universally accepted words that
would mimic an atrioventricular rhythm?

Did someone drop you on your head at birth? The reason 50wpm can save
lives is probably a bit complex for you to get both your functioning
neurons around, but believe me, having done CW for a living for some
decades I do know that it can save lives. And if you're faster than the
average bear at it, you can tell someone on the scene things they need to
know all that much faster.

Wrong theatre? OK...

Maybe if a person is trapped on a sinking ship in the Indian Ocean
you, in Siberia, could tap out a message to someone in Madagascar [who
happened to be awake at an odd hour] and that person also owned a
large SAR chopper, they could jump in it, saving the time of relaying
to anyone else, and go pluck them from certain death?

OH, or better yet... if your neighbor is also a ham.... and your wife
fell over with an AMI, you could call your neighbor, give him a freq,
then the two of you
get set up and running, then you can send a 50wpm message asking your
neighbor to call an ambulance? BTW, if the phones are down, you ask
him to get in his
car and drive down to the local EMS agency, and bring them to you.
Life saved!
I'm impressed.
rb

So apparently YOUR answer to this question is that you couldn't send your
name if your own life depended on it.

Believe me, I get it. I don't think CW ought to be mandatory and it
isn't where I live. I do think people who intend to use it should learn
how to use it properly, though. For CW to be effective, both operators
must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers of
language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, the fact
that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once enabled me to
render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were other more routine
examples of where the language barrier was crossed by CW--many messages I
copied were not in English at all, but were readable by their end
recipients).


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

wrote:
From: on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm

wrote:
From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm
wrote:
From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm

If the league pushes the morse testing issue too hard, it will become
obvious to the 25% that are members.

I don't think so. The Amateur Radiotelegraphy Society is very
firmly SET in their ideas of keeping the "heritage" and
"tradition" of being a living museum of archaic radio. Those
firm believers and worshippers at the Church of St. Hiram are
disciples and they haven't had their last supper yet.

I have no objection to them trying to prservs thier mode the ARS is big
enough even for unproductive thing

It's "minority rule" when ARRL lobbies for preservation of
morse code test for any amateur radio license class. The
ARRL membership is slightly less than a quarter of all US
amateur radio licensees.

Don't know if you've heard yet, but the ARRL and robesin announced that
MARS and TSA have an agreement for armageddon communications.

Heh heh, I wouldn't doubt it... :-)

[via "giant meteor bounce?" ... off the earth, that is? :-) ]

I thought Robesin had put on his (invisible) USMC uniform and
was busy pounding brass with the USCG offshore from Beirut to
evacuate US civilians? :-)

now that remark I must take you to task for

the last thing we want to sugest that robeson might wear is something
invisible now that image IS a sexauly distrubing one

Ahem...my reference was the old fairy tale, "The Emperor's New
Clothes." :-)

i thougt as much OTOH the image of robeson nude is still well

To me it is UNwell... :-)

That's the one where a full-of-himself ruler ordered some new
clothes and the tailor buttered him up (while not sewing any
new clothes) so much that the Emperor bought into this pandering
to his ego and appeared in public with his "new clothes" (he was
naked). Needless to say, the public laughed and laughed at this
ridiculous spectacle. :-)

indeed i laugh at him myself ruefully

with the added though that this is thebest the procoder can muster

Robesin is merely a product of the "incentive" licensing
system where all those who hunger for being a "somebody"
can get a Title - Rank - Privilege through a singular skill.

If it doesn't have rank or a uniform, Robesin isn't interested.

I didn't make that system, neither did you, neither did
anyone in these four forums. The FCC took a big chunk out
of it (license classes and morsemanship skill) with the
Restructuring of 2000 and that ****ed off the Title-Rank-
Status seekers. Devout morsemen are angry and venting steam
because their self-esteem has fallen.

Only in their minds. They are the very same good or bad hams that they
were with all the layers of hamdom.

Robeson has been all full of himself in here about his alleged
"USMC service" yet he has presented zero-point-zero evidence
from anyone else (or any legitimate agency) that he ever
served on active USMC duty for any of his claimed "18 years."

Simply amazing. EIGHTEEN years alleged on active duty and
he can't supply a single photo or document to support his
claim? In November of this year I can truthfully say I've
been in the southern California aerospace business 50 years.
I have all sorts of documentation and photos on that which
I may fully digitize some day (some are already digitized).
Some time ago I posted my resume in here...which only made
Robesin ballistic then since he has NO comparable
experience in industry and cannot prove any radio experience
other than amateur and alleged "chief operator" status at
some small MARS station long ago. [that was before his
less-than-a-half-year as a purchasing agent at a small
set top box maker]

Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he remains
woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it.

In another recent post, Robesin keeps referring to a "CV."
That's an acronym for the Latin 'curriculum vitae,' a list
of life experiences (education, work experience).

Maybe he meant "constant velocity" as in "CV joints" because he's
always "spun up" about one thing or another.

In the
electronics industry, indeed in MOST industries, those
applying for jobs don't present a curriculum vitae, just a
RESUME of education-work experience. Some academics may
use "CV" but Personnel departments still look over resumes.
Just one more little gaffe on Robesin's part, trying to
LOOK experienced when he is NOT.

Robesin an academic? Not in this lifetime.

It's just his inappropriate use of what to him are important sounding
words and acronyms.

Even though he NOW thinks of himself AS the amateur radio
service personified (anything against him is somehow against
ALL radio amateurs), he is still parodying the "Emperor."

Another sign of his megalomania, purporting to "represent
all" and, by extension, anyone against Him is "against all
radio amateurs." Robesin desperately needs SOMETHING to
hold up his self-esteem and he uses amateur radio for that
selfish purpose. It is like his infamous snot-on-the-
moustache CAP flight suit picture, big on rank, title, and
with implications of status. CAP is NOT about amateur
radio but Robesin keeps on harping about it as if it
"proved" something about his amateur radio abilities. He
does the same with his "ER nurse qualifications" but those
have absolutely nothing to do with radio, amateur or
professional.

But, challenge Robesin or call him in error and one will be
inundated with personal insults. Robeson MUST be right and
he MUST rule. Civil comportment be damned with Robeson in
newsgroups. Those newsgroups were (in his mind) created to
showcase Him?



The rec.radio newsgroups have showcased Robesin. He HAS earned his
reputation. He's worked very hard for it.

If you had to use CW... would robesin still be an idiot?
 

K4YZ wrote:

Ninety-nine percent of Lennie's post was about anythig OTHER than
AMATEUR RADIO, Morkie.

GMDSS is NOT Amateur Radio.

SOLAS is NOT Amateur Radio.

Lennie Anderson is NOT Amateur Radio.

Steve, K4YZ

MARS is NOT Amateur Radio.

If you had to use CW... would robesin still be an idiot?
 

wrote:
From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm
wrote:
From: on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm


It's "minority rule" when ARRL lobbies for preservation of
morse code test for any amateur radio license class. The
ARRL membership is slightly less than a quarter of all US
amateur radio licensees.

The ARRL is trying to soften their image - the latest QST shows a
person using a, gulp, microphone on the FRONT cover!

Good grief! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Just inside is yet another article on building a code key - from a door
hinge.

Oh, goody...HIGH TECH construction article.

Would they follow that with another article on the door itself?
Like, I mean, making the door a jar? :-)



Ahem...my reference was the old fairy tale, "The Emperor's New
Clothes." :-)

That's the one where a full-of-himself ruler ordered some new
clothes and the tailor buttered him up (while not sewing any
new clothes) so much that the Emperor bought into this pandering
to his ego and appeared in public with his "new clothes" (he was
naked). Needless to say, the public laughed and laughed at this
ridiculous spectacle. :-)

Robeson has been all full of himself in here about his alleged
"USMC service" yet he has presented zero-point-zero evidence
from anyone else (or any legitimate agency) that he ever
served on active USMC duty for any of his claimed "18 years."

Even though he NOW thinks of himself AS the amateur radio
service personified (anything against him is somehow against
ALL radio amateurs), he is still parodying the "Emperor."

This just in from The ARRL Letter, Vol. 25, No. 33, August 18, 2006

"ARRL First Vice President Kay Craigie, N3KN, represented the League at the
Global Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Conference 2006."

"Craigie stressed that Amateur Radio needs to avoid "being dazzled by our
own press clippings into thinking that we are the big dog in emergency
telecommunications.""

She refers to robesin-like attitudes within the ARS.

Oh. My. God. ! ! !

Tsk, just because NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, FOX, ESPN, and PBS haven't
covered the tremendously fantastic wonderfullest huge contribution
to saving lives and property via ham radio? Gosh, there are all
sorts of clippings from obscure weekly and biweekly newspapers
dutifully cut-and-pasted into messages here from Robesin & Co.

Maybe I'll have to write the Department of Defense and say that
"Major" Robesin said that radio amateurs run MARS! They should
fortwith cease and desist publishing DoD Directives on thinking
that they started it and keep running it!

Maybe I missed the "news" on the Home and Garden Channel...I don't
watch that much...

Right and all the other radio services are switching to morse
code for all emergency communications a la ham radio...the sky
has truly fallen!

didit!

Dahdah comrade. :-)

If Lennie Anderson Had To Tell The Truth Once, Would Bill Clinton Swear Off Big Mac's and White House Interns? With "Engineers" Like Lennie, It's No Wonder Everything Says "Made In Someplace Other Than The United States"
 

From: an old freind on Tues, Aug 22 2006 4:16 pm


K4YZ wrote:
an old freind wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
tried the same old tired rhetoric:

But, challenge Robeson or call him in error and one will be
inundated with personal insults. Robeson MUST be right and
he MUST rule. Civil comportment be damned with Robeson in
newsgroups. Those newsgroups were (in his mind) created to
showcase Him?

Yep.

agreeing for once get help

Get help for what?

well a pro needs to way but Id say meglomanina paranoia, pathological
lying for starts

Give up on Robesin, Mark. He MUST remain "right" and He
"must" rule. He isn't interested in civility. Once an
"enemy" of his, always an enemy in his mind. Sick way to
be but he is that way, repeatedly. He just proved it in
the message you replied to.

He is setting the example for all hams. Not going to help
the amateur ranks in getting more hams but that is not,
apparently, his point. Robesin needs to come out on TOP in
his own mind, be chieftan, be the warlord.

He also wants rec.radio.amateur. policy all his own to do with
as he sees fit. [probably to have his daily fits in...]

Ech...

but titles like that are Robeson stock in trade my content in his posts
just ranting on and on about epople instead of Issues

Absolutely true, Mark. He tries to belittle his "enemies" so that
He looks good. Problem is, it is working in reverse and he is only
belittling himself.