If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:19:15 -0400, "Dee Flint"
spake thusly: "Opus-" wrote in message .. . I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the fray. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake thusly: George Orwell wrote: Al Klein said: Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would expect you to be able to understand that. Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html This seems fair, to me. As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread and butter. But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been presented and those with closed minds have rejected them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Sorry, but your wrong, my analogy is just fine for this subject. CW to a ham, like carpentry to a mechanic, can be useful BUT is NOT NECESSARY for each to do what they want to do effectively and properly. Don't be one of those closed minds. Yes, a ham CAN use CW if he wants and more power to him/her to do so. A mechanic CAN learn to be a carpenter if he wants to and more power to him/her to do so. But carpentry will not make a mechanic a better mechanic, no more than CW will make a ham operator a better ham operator. More useful to themselves and others, but NOT better. Just because carpentry COULD maybe be useful to a mechanic does not mean that he should be required to learn carpentry to be a mechanic. A mechanic can be a damn good mechanic without picking up a hammer and a ham can be a damn good ham without touching a key. I said it before and I'll say it again. 70 years ago a good mechanic needed carpentry skills but no more. 70 years ago a good ham needed to know code but no more. A code test for todays prospective hams is like a carpentry test for todays prospective mechanics. |
trolling right along
From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 6:52 pm
wrote: From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:34 pm wrote: From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am wrote: From: on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm Fred Hambrecht wrote: We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... Mr Congenialty has spoken. Gotta love those Code Bigots. :-) ?Has anyone run this idiots name through QRZ? Fred Hambrecht, W4JLE, lives in South Carolina. Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees aren't really no-coders. :-) Wow. Why would he think that? Jimmy has a woodie about some past "disagreements" in here, the inability to keep me off the forum. :-) Yet he has absolutely no problem with anything Robesin has ever posted... Quite true from thousands of posts in Google archives...one of which said "I can't control him" (or words to that effect). :-) But that isn't the real point. Jimmy Miccolis MUST be the "guru" of ham radio lore. He ABHORS anyone correcting ANYTHING he says. "Cross" him in any way and one has made an enemy for life. :-) He comes across as the prototype "Mother Superior" complete with knuckle-spank ruler keeping everyone in (ARRL) line. Jimmy is a True Believer in the (virtual) Church of St. Hiram and one of the more literate of the Code Bigots. But, literacy does not excuse manufacturing typographical errors into vast reams of "civil discussion" which is really refined personal insults. Davie Heil is another of the Code Bigots and is very busy being a "street fighter" type. More elan but always, always coming up with manufactured personal insults against non-code-test advocates. NOT doing as He says is "moral imperfection." Part of the problem Davie has is that he got topped years ago in his radio experience. He made much of his "foreign travels" and being DX, all courtesy of the US taxpayer, tried to make out like the Department of State had vast radio networks and tried to imply that he was doing James Bomb like activities in keeping tabs on commies in an adjacent African country to Guinea-Bisseau. I came along in here with some experience in Big Time 24/7 HF radio comms (also paid for by the US taxpayer) and Davie must have been quite put-out that ANOTHER, a NON-MORSE person, topped his State stations. [Horrors!] His implications were obvious, State was much more important than some old USN Chief's ship station (two of which were in the forum back then). Having a non-morse-loving person being involved with 40 HF transmitters and hundreds of thousands of TTY message relays per month was considered "not as good" as his State stations. :-) Heil is now on some weird Code Bigot trip trying to use non-love of morse code as some kind of "moral perversion" or that one MUST have an amateur license BEFORE getting a professional one in order to "show interest" in radio. :-) The olde rrap Code Bigot troika leaves us with Stevie Robeson, aka "Robesin" aka any number of personalities. Stevie is just a frustrated person capable of a few things but has a mental woodie for RANK, TITLE, STATUS big enough to dock the USS Missouri in. He is a persistent BLUFFER, constantly alluding and implying things. He also lacks ANY third-party reference to his War Hero claims and 18 years of his (supposed) life. shrug I think Frank was the third party and you know the results. Yes, but in a round-about way. Frank showed HIS evidence of HIS USMC service but Robeson never did. Frank came up with common USMC terms, events, things familiar to other Marines (one of my old schoolmates was one and he put me through to some other Marines to verify that). Good enough proof for me, ex-Army and unfamiliar with intimate USMC life. Frank was honest. Stevie was devious and PERSONALLY INSULTING. Stevie's bluff was called and the insults were his only "reply." Sigh. He was just an IMPOSTER, a wanna-be who never was. Katapult Kellie (#4) has given up on posting in here. Maybe he is a reasonable person who merely loves using morse but has an archtypical "Philly" attitude? Ah, so! Well, it's part of the "morsemen can do NO wrong" philosophy ever-present in this forum. :-) We're in for the seventh wave of it. Ah, "seven hostile waves"! :-) That's the morbidly fascinating thing about the Code Bigots. They take the code test issue so PERSONALLY. Something akin to incestuous love? The personal identification with morsemanship looks to be more zeal than the worst zealot. Try to speak about the code test issue itself and ANY negative about it is taken as a "direct personal insult" to any Code Bigot! Amazing. Those Code Bigots come back with all sorts of personal insults from moral deficiencies to "laziness" to "instant gratification" and the very-telling "you in the younger generation are no damn good and we are 'superior to you!'" foul-mouthed emotionalism. Amazing. There seems to be no end in sight to their intense vindictiveness! Technically, manual morse code mode is dead or dying in the radio world, all radio services. The efficacy of morse mode was never proven to match the Morse Myths claims. It is alive (and unwell) only in amateur radio, kept there in the USA by Code Zealots (ARRL core and other olde-tymers) who lobby for its continuation as a license test. Code testing is extremely emotional to the Code Zealots (most of which seem to be Code Bigots as well). They vent personal insults against all who even remotely go for elimination of the code test. They act as if it is the most important thing in life. As I remarked, the vindictive zeal of these Code Bigots is morbidly fascinating. I would like to talk about the ISSUE of the code test but this arena is NOT the place. This forum has degraded to self-important insulters trying to outdo other self-important insulters with heaping gobs of plain filth in print. A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices and hospitals all over the country. Robesin as medical waste? Sure. Why not? He's a waste in so many ways. Fortunately (for the ecology) he is biodegradeable. We've already seen that in here, him being as degrading as possible. I disagree. He is toxic waste. I stand corrected. You are right. Did you see his "conceed" to Mark in another thread? No. Too many threads of the garbage-mouthers in this group, isn't worth skimming through all those other threads. It was one of the most disgusting, repulsive things I've ever seen posted on RRAP. And he presents hisself as being Mr Uprightiousness. Ha! He has a mouth full of excerement, complaining about others having a mouth full excrement. And no negative comments from the Code Crew, so it must be OK with them. I had just enough free time today to look over it. Yuck! The "Al-Code-Ah" (Code Zealots) are always "right." Whatever they do is "perfect" and only "others" are in error. There is hardly any disagreement among themselves. Robeson's problem is that he is too deep into bluffing his way through things. He isn't as much a zealot about code as he is FRUSTRATED, perhaps by his life existance. He gets highly emotional, angry at others disagreeing with him, far beyond reasonableness. That reminds me. There was a No-Coder named Val that talked up the Code and they all loved him. He was the Darling of RRAP. I wonder if he ever learned the code? Val Germann his name? I remember that episode, Val saying all the "right" things to please the Code Zealots and Code Bigots. The late W0EX was a Code Bigot and praised him to the skies... while damning all the non-code-test advocates. We both know what Freddie displayed. No sense in repeating it. I agree that his demands do not put amateur radio in a good light, but some of those Bigots are very vocal and there seems to be some kind of "bigot morsemen's league" where none are chastised by their brotherhood. They seem to hold their bigotry in high regard, perhaps even as nobles. Sort of like "honor among theives." Deeper than that. "Droit de Signeur" seems to be closer, an intense for-royals-only identification and all plebians can go to hell. Anyway, I ran Val's info on QRZ.com, and he's still a Technician. Maybe he's a "PLUS," probably not. He played all the morsemen but they don't mind as long as he was talking the talk, he don't have to walk the walk. Moral of the story: play lip service to their fetish and you'll get along just fine. True enough. Sigh. That "lip service" stuff is rampant in the Show Business part of L.A., even though much of the entertainment output is mediocre. I never could see that kind of ass-kissing and am glad to be associated with aero- space industry rather than show biz. Electrons, fields, and waves obey THEIR rules and don't give a damn about human emotions or ideals. More challenging...and rewarding. |
trolling right along
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More Morkie Mularkie
wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:44:46 GMT, Dave Heil wrote: Not ####sucker Lloyd wrote: wrote: As I've said, I've never ever tried to, nor had any need to "impersonate" anyone in any newsgroup nor on any website. I am secure in who I am and what I've done. Sure you are, "Stagger Lee." Are you losing your grip, UnWiseman? You thought I was Stagger Lee. You thought Lloyd was Stagger Lee. You believed that someone named Chason was Stagger Lee. Now Len is Stagger Lee. You are behaving (what's new) irrationally. he has no grip on reality anymore heis now claiming I am HAVING sex with Robeson althought to be fair Robeson is making the same claim No...it would be a lie to day I've claimed that you're having sex with me. It WOULD be fair to say that I have conceeded that you have had experiences that I never will have...Tasting my excrement on another man's genitals is one of them. Steve, K4YZ |
trolling right along
From: on Wed, Sep 6 2006 4:37 am
wrote: I would like to talk about the ISSUE of the code test but this arena is NOT the place. That's because of *your* behavior, Len. Oh, oh, M. Superior got her knickers in a twist again and tries to ruler-spank... :-) I have had many civilized, respectful, well-behaved code-test discussions here with Phil Kane, K2ASP and Bill Sohl, K2UNK. The latter is a director of No-Code International, and is one of the staunchest no-code-test advocates around. Yet he makes his points without the name-calling and personal insults that are your stock-in-trade whenever someone disagrees with you. Same for K2ASP. Cut the crap, Jimmy. Quit trying to present yourself as the oh-so-very-SUPERIOR "Mr. Perfect." You are NOT perfect nor an "example of good comportment." You come across as both superior and arrogant...plus the total inflexibility of considering other folks' opinions and viewpoints. This is NOT a thread to discuss OLD HISTORY of US amateur radio as spoon-fed you by the ARRL. The ARRL is NOT a group of "perfect" leaders with "perfect" comportment, either. Jimmy, if you can't stand newsgroup heat, get OUT. It obviously upsets you to be challenged or not recognized as a "newsgroup leader." Both of them have disappeared from rrap. ERROR! Bill and Phil are still in Google archives. Anyone can go look for themselves. I stop back once in a while to see if things have changed. How noble of you. :-) I post a few license numbers here, and you're off on a tear with insults and general adherence to your profile. Poor baby. More evidence of how you can't stand the heat of newsgroup behavior. You crib someone else's stats without giving them credit, then repeat boilerplate paragraphs that are seven yours old, implying that those are "yours" and you get all upset about being called on that? ANYONE can find statistics on the number of licensees and classes and the growth/loss figures. See QRZ and Hamdata for two readily-accessible sources. Tsk, you have serious problems with PAST disagreements. Back at the last restructuring you tried to play with percentages to somehow "prove" that the Technician class belongs in the code-tested group because code zealot Speroni lumped them together in HIS biased-for-code website. That's all in the Google Archives but one has to go back a few years to see it. A transparent attempt Jimmy and several called you out on it. That's also in archives. It's easy to tell when you start losing an argument - that's when you start with the nicknames and personal insults. Being against morse code testing IS a "personal insult" to any Code Zealot. TS for them. :-) Tsk, more evidence of the self-described "superiority" of the Code Zealots. THEY can do NO wrong...such as Robeson, Heil, "Slow-Blow Code" and others, all having maximum-rate code-tested licenses (unknown about Blow Code who won't state his/her callsign). Not to mention the anony-mousies such as "Thomas Edison" or "Not Cocksucker Lloyd," etc. You concentrate on ONE or TWO posters at a time, Jimmy, always denigrating and claiming "error" on the part of no- code-test advocates. You are obviously subjective as hell while claiming "objectivity." Total PR bull****, Jimmy. This forum has degraded to self-important insulters trying to outdo other self-important insulters with heaping gobs of plain filth in print. Whose fault is that? Not mine. Tsk, tsk, did YOU think that sentence was about YOU?!? Good grief, you have a great big EGO problem, superior Jimmy. Go apply your Mother Superior ruler-spanking on THEM if you want to strike a blow for morsemanship. Got the guts? Or do you consider yourself so "superior" that you don't engage in plebian behavior? --- You should work on your PEOPLE SKILLS, Jimmy. |
trolling right along
-- wind·bag (wndbg) n. |
If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
Opus- wrote in
: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:19:15 -0400, "Dee Flint" spake thusly: "Opus-" wrote in message . .. I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the fray. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake thusly: George Orwell wrote: Al Klein said: Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would expect you to be able to understand that. Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html This seems fair, to me. As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread and butter. But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been presented and those with closed minds have rejected them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Sorry, but your wrong, my analogy is just fine for this subject. CW to a ham, like carpentry to a mechanic, can be useful BUT is NOT NECESSARY for each to do what they want to do effectively and properly. Don't be one of those closed minds. Yes, a ham CAN use CW if he wants and more power to him/her to do so. A mechanic CAN learn to be a carpenter if he wants to and more power to him/her to do so. But carpentry will not make a mechanic a better mechanic, no more than CW will make a ham operator a better ham operator. More useful to themselves and others, but NOT better. Just because carpentry COULD maybe be useful to a mechanic does not mean that he should be required to learn carpentry to be a mechanic. A mechanic can be a damn good mechanic without picking up a hammer and a ham can be a damn good ham without touching a key. I said it before and I'll say it again. 70 years ago a good mechanic needed carpentry skills but no more. 70 years ago a good ham needed to know code but no more. A code test for todays prospective hams is like a carpentry test for todays prospective mechanics. When you have to spend time building a skill, you spend more time learning other related things as well. Hams that haven't had to study to pass a 13 wpm CW exam, probably don't know the written portion of the exam as will as hams that did. If I hadn't had to pass 20 wpm for my Extra, I would have taken the exam a lot sooner, but as I had to build my CW abilities, I also spend more time learning the theory too. It made me a better ham. You people don't want knowledgable hams anymore. CB'ers dont have to learn CW, are they better? SC |
woger: lying kook on parade http://www.mipsor.state.mi.us/mipsor/default.htm
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If you had to use CW... could Len save himself?
wrote: wrote: From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 7:49 pm Tom Eddy is Robesin. Just another of his many personalities. There IS a high probability of your being right, Brian. Maybe I spoke too soon. Should have let Tom Eddy go on for a few more days and reveal more of his Robesinisms. "uncalled for..." "childishly tawdry..." "speaks volumes..." "Lennie..." indeed I suspect Robeson is finding life as Robeson on RRAp to rough for him so he is preparing to go the Wismen route and god only what a torrent of filth we will be treated too Slipping to "Lennie" as an attempt at a last dig is a highlighted error of this "Edison." :-) Yep. Note also the FAILURE to document details. Robesin didn't state who I was allegedly impersonating...further reinforcing the "alternate personality" syndrome. All damning but nothing specific, typical Robesin posting. The "childishly tawdry" part sounds like he just put down a harlequin romance starring Fabio. I can't wait for him to tell us that he's "livid." ;^) Did you catch his "conceed" posting to Mark? Yes. Yuck. Robesin is going deeper, deeper into his abyss. After that layered filth, he complains that Mark isn't "acting human." Hi! I gues to make "human" in his eyes I would have to NOT point out is errors (or comet on his efforts to INVLE ME in his love life) well Ladies and gents if Robeson is Good example of Human I don't want to be a human If he is to be considered a good ham I don't want to be one of those either but he is neither |
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