wrote in message
ups.com...
You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the impact holes on
the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do that if the
temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?


Because at the point where the picture is taken, the fires were not yet hot
enough. Either Discovery Channel or A&E (I can't remember which) had a
program where they built duplicates of the offices including furniture,
computers, etc., then threw in Jet A and set them on fire. The Jet A along
with all the burning plastic easily got hot enough to reach temperatures
that cause the type of steel used in the WTC to loose something like 80% of
it's strength. Very interesting show.

--
"Anybody who deliberately propagandizes with lies should be held up to scorn
and ridicule" - Al Franken

Who said melt? Fire softens steel. It was a damn big
building, the fire wasn't everywhere.


wrote in message
ups.com...
| You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the
impact holes on
| the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do
that if the
| temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:fUhMg.20531$SZ3.2811@dukeread04...
Who said melt? Fire softens steel. It was a damn big
building, the fire wasn't everywhere.


wrote in message
ups.com...
| You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the
impact holes on
| the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do
that if the
| temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?
|



It appears you only have to cause one floor to drop in that type of building
to bring it down. On the History Channel they have a program called
Engineering Disasters, and in one of the shows they addressed that very
issue. They had actual films of a building that fell during construction
in just the way the WTC fell. After much testing they found that rebar had
been placed 1/2 inch off from where it was supposed to be in the floor. As
the building got taller there was enough weight placed on a lower floor and
it failed. The building went straight down, just like the WTC, killing a
bunch of workers. All this because of some rebar in the wrong place.

--
"Anybody who deliberately propagandizes with lies should be held up to scorn
and ridicule" - Al Franken

In "John Smith" writes:

It appears you only have to cause one floor to drop in that type of building
to bring it down. On the History Channel they have a program called
Engineering Disasters, and in one of the shows they addressed that very
issue. They had actual films of a building that fell during construction
in just the way the WTC fell. After much testing they found that rebar had
been placed 1/2 inch off from where it was supposed to be in the floor. As
the building got taller there was enough weight placed on a lower floor and
it failed. The building went straight down, just like the WTC, killing a
bunch of workers. All this because of some rebar in the wrong place.

Sounds like (more or less) they're describing
the pancaking of L'Ambiance Plaza in
Bridgeport, Ct., back in (clickety click) 1987

( and even if they're not, it's a good read...)

short version: the building was a "lift slab"
structure, where the floors were built up
at ground level, then lifted by crane to
their destination height, and attached to
the columns. First would be the top floor,
then ( top -1 ), ( top -2 ), rinse, lather, repeat.

One of the upper floors came loose, fell down, and
the rest joined up.

A couple of cites:
http://www.pubs.asce.org/WWWdisplay.cgi?9204513

http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/bu...PDF/b94023.pdf (pdf)

and, for good measu

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...lambiance.html

( note that the last includes some commentary which
is full of [expletive deleted], such as the claim that
"The rubble of the L'Ambiance Plaza building contained
clearly recognizable stacks of floor slabs, contrasting
with the striking absence of a single photograph showing
a piece of floor slab or even steel truss at Ground Zero...)


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

There was no one at the impact holes, they were on ledges.

Quit lying before we have to sew your mouth shut.



wrote in message
ups.com...
| You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the
impact holes on
| the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do
that if the
| temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?
|

wrote in message
ups.com...
You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the impact holes on
the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do that if the
temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?

Are you really so ignorant, as to ask that question? I hope not!

Doh, perhaps the fire was only at it's hottest in less than a dozen of the
over 100 floors? Once those floors collapsed, the additional weight of
these floors could not be supported by the floors beneath them.
--
Jim in NC

All 73 need to get a life. They should move to Russia.
Lets get real.

In article .com,
smoked some really BAD dope, beamed down from
the Mothership, spotted a Sasquatch, dodged a Chupacabra's claws,
sniffed a whole lot of "chemtrails," foamed at the mouth, howled at the
Moon and bloviated :


The 9/11 terrorist attack on America which left almost 3,000 people
dead was an "inside job", according to a group of leading academics.

Around 75 top professors and leading scientists believe the attacks
were puppeteered by war mongers in the White House to justify the
invasion and the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries.


"Top professors"???? NONE of them has experience in relevant fields:
aviation, structures, demolition, operations, covert ops, etc.


The claims have caused outrage and anger in the US which marks the
fifth anniversary of the terrorist attacks on Monday.

But leading scientists say the facts of their investigations cannot be
ignored and say they have evidence that points to one of the biggest
conspiracies ever perpetrated. Professor Steven Jones, who lectures in
physics at the Brigham Young University in Utah, says the official
version of events is the biggest and most evil cover up in history.

"Leading scientists"??? Experts in the appropriate fields support the
NIST explanations -- NOT those of Jones, et. al! Jones' field of
expertise a cold fusion, the journeys of Jesus Christ through the
Americas. He has zero experience in structures or anything else relevant
to the subject.

Jones and co. are making a lot of money selling lectures, books and
videos to the ignorant, the galactically stupid, the gullible and the
malicious.

He has joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth whose membership includes up
to 75 leading scientists and experts from universities across the US.

Prof Jones said: "We don't believe that 19 hijackers and a few others
in a cave in Afghanistan pulled this off acting alone.


He is obviously willfully ignorant of *real* conspiracies!

These guys are continually blowing smoke in political newsgroups and
getting shot down everywhere. They use more aliases than Carter has pill!

Please keep this off the rec.aviation.piloting list. Issues involving
witches, warlocks, little green men, anal probes, and 9/11 conspiracies
are not appropriate for this list.

-Robert

This is what happens to tinfoilers who spew this crap.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=476951

"Physics Professor Steven Jones has made numerous statements about the
collapse of the World Trade Center. BYU has repeatedly said that it does not
endorse assertions made by individual faculty.

"We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and
accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."