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#1
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KØHB wrote:
wrote funny I thought they could still CW everywhere in band That' may be true in theory, but not in practice. You can't use CW on frequencies which your license class prohibits. Generals just lost 150kHz of prime CW/rtty/data spectrum from 3.6 to 3.75MHz, the other parts of the band their license class doesn't allow. So much for "CW everywhere in band". 73, de Hans, K0HB The comment is that you can use CW anywhere within the allowable frequencies for you class of license. Dave WD9BDZ |
#2
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KØHB wrote:
On 75m they have just had their CW/rtty/data spectrum reduced by 2/3rds. Hans, has CW been barred from parts of 75m? I haven't read the R&O. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#3
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KØHB wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote 73 de Alun, N3KIP (20wpm Extra, 100% phone op) Alun, With all due respect, your signature line kind of reveals your agenda. We aren't talking about Extra's who don't use CW/rtty/data. The folks we're talking about here are Generals, the most populous HF license class in the US. On 75m they have just had their CW/rtty/data spectrum reduced by 2/3rds. That's outrageous! 73, de Hans, K0HB Here, I'll have a go. When the new changes go into effect: Generals gain 50 kHz of 'phone but lose 150 kHz of cw/rtty (1:3 ratio of gained/lost bandspace) Advanceds gain 75 kHz of 'phone but lose 100 kHz of cw/rtty (3:4 ratio) Extras gain 150 kHz of 'phone but lose 150 kHz of cw/rtty (1:1) Novices and codetested Techs gain 75 kHz in one part of the band but lose 75 kHz elsewhere (3:2) Do you see the disparity, particularly for Generals? Why should it exist? What did Generals do to merit losing so much spectrum? Why can't the low end of 75 be moved 50 kHz instead of 150 kHz, and the lower limit of each 'phone subband moved down 50 kHz? Then, each license class would gain as many kHz of 'phone as they lose CW/rtty. 1:1 ratio for everyone. If you don't think 50 kHz is enough, make it 75 kHz. The point is that the most populous license class on the band *loses* the most total kHz! The ratio is 1 kHz gained for 3 kHz lost - why? How much will 3600-3700 be used when it is Extra-only? --- One more question: Why isn't rtty/data - particularly wider-than-1 kHz-data - allowed in the 'phone bands? Or rather, why should that restriction remain, particularly on a band that will be 4:1 phone/narrow modes? How are those modes any different from SSTV or CW in terms of compatibility? It seems to me that a combination voice-data mode would have all sorts of uses in amateur radio. Imagine being in QSO with someone on SSB, and being able to send a data file to them without having to QSY. In fact, with a properly-designed rig, the data could be sent simultaneously on the opposite sideband, or on the suppressed-carrier frequency if a mode like PSK31 were used for data. Yet under current rules none of that is allowed, and the 80/75 bandspace where data modes will be allowed for *any* class of license will decrease from 250 kHz to 100 kHz - why? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#4
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#6
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![]() "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. Slow Code wrote in news:6tgXg.8071$Y24.103 @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: "Iitoi" wrote in ink.net: 80M and 40M phone band expansion http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc I don't know if we'll get Mad right away but it's clear the FCC and the ARRL want to drive all good hams out of the service. Little by little they'll take away the non-phone portions of the bands and hand it over to the phone users. Like a frog in a pot of water that's raised to boiling point, one day us real hams will find we have to place to communicate on the ham bands that doesn't sound like Citizens Band. SC Here's a reality check. On 80m the rest of the world, except Canada, has always had phone down to 3600 as far back as I can remember, and we are merely joining them. The VE phone ops still have to stay above 3700, I think. On 40m the international bandplans have phone down to 7040 except in Region 3 where it is 7030. The only countries that I know of where you can't use phone down to 7040 are Mexico (7050) and the USA (now 7125 after the change). US hams outside Region 2 have had phone down to 7075 for years, and I am on record as suggesting that we should have that in the mainland US. It's hard to see why not when you actually look at what the rest of the world is doing. At the same time countries in Region 1 aren't supposed to get access to 7100-7200 until the middle of 2007. Many of them already have, but for those that haven't, a phone subband that goes down to 7125 still doesn't even reach the top edge of their whole band. Doubtless some of them will be late in implementing the extra spectrum, so forced split working will drag on a while longer. How would you like it if your 40m CW allocation were on frequencies that were off limits to the DX? On 20m and 15m we still have 50 kHz less phone on each band than all other countries. Although General and Advanced got bigger phone subbands on 15 (as well as 80 and 40), the bottom edge of phone didn't move on 15 (or 20). 73 de Alun, N3KIP (20wpm Extra, 100% phone op) Keep in mind that the US has more hams than the entire rest of the world combined if you don't include Japan in that count. So there is the potential for problems if our voice allocations go too low. Our regulations need to take that into account. As far as 40m goes, it will be a better solution if they can move the broadcasters out and make it a worldwide ham allocation up to 7.300. If the rest of the world could go to 7.3, that would open up a tremendous amount of space for other countries. Dee, N8UZE |
#7
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![]() Alun L. Palmer wrote: Slow Code wrote in news:6tgXg.8071$Y24.103 @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: "Iitoi" wrote in ink.net: 80M and 40M phone band expansion http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc I don't know if we'll get Mad right away but it's clear the FCC and the ARRL want to drive all good hams out of the service. Little by little they'll take away the non-phone portions of the bands and hand it over to the phone users. Like a frog in a pot of water that's raised to boiling point, one day us real hams will find we have to place to communicate on the ham bands that doesn't sound like Citizens Band. SC Here's a reality check. On 80m the rest of the world, except Canada, has always had phone down to 3600 as far back as I can remember, and we are merely joining them. The VE phone ops still have to stay above 3700, I think. On 40m the international bandplans have phone down to 7040 except in Region 3 where it is 7030. The only countries that I know of where you can't use phone down to 7040 are Mexico (7050) and the USA (now 7125 after the change). US hams outside Region 2 have had phone down to 7075 for years, and I am on record as suggesting that we should have that in the mainland US. It's hard to see why not when you actually look at what the rest of the world is doing. At the same time countries in Region 1 aren't supposed to get access to 7100-7200 until the middle of 2007. Many of them already have, but for those that haven't, a phone subband that goes down to 7125 still doesn't even reach the top edge of their whole band. Doubtless some of them will be late in implementing the extra spectrum, so forced split working will drag on a while longer. Alun you've been dumping this old whine into the groups for years now and it's long since worn out. Not that it needs to be explained to you *again* but the FCC is *protecting* the dx from the hordes of Yanks who would obliterate the dx if we were allowed to run SSB below 7100. Dee also explaned it in her immediately preceeding post, read it, give us a break and internalize it this time then go find something new to grouse about for the next five years. Maybe by then your chums in the UK will be able to transceive with you above 7125. How would you like it if your 40m CW allocation were on frequencies that were off limits to the DX? The difference is all about one SSB signal taking up the same amout of spectrum space as 5-10 CW signals. On 20m and 15m we still have 50 kHz less phone on each band than all other countries. Although General and Advanced got bigger phone subbands on 15 (as well as 80 and 40), the bottom edge of phone didn't move on 15 (or 20). 73 de Alun, N3KIP (20wpm Extra, 100% phone op) There's your real problem. w3rv |
#8
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![]() wrote: Alun L. Palmer wrote: Slow Code wrote in news:6tgXg.8071$Y24.103 @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: "Iitoi" wrote in ink.net: 80M and 40M phone band expansion http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc I don't know if we'll get Mad right away but it's clear the FCC and the ARRL want to drive all good hams out of the service. Little by little they'll take away the non-phone portions of the bands and hand it over to the phone users. Like a frog in a pot of water that's raised to boiling point, one day us real hams will find we have to place to communicate on the ham bands that doesn't sound like Citizens Band. SC Here's a reality check. On 80m the rest of the world, except Canada, has always had phone down to 3600 as far back as I can remember, and we are merely joining them. The VE phone ops still have to stay above 3700, I think. On 40m the international bandplans have phone down to 7040 except in Region 3 where it is 7030. The only countries that I know of where you can't use phone down to 7040 are Mexico (7050) and the USA (now 7125 after the change). US hams outside Region 2 have had phone down to 7075 for years, and I am on record as suggesting that we should have that in the mainland US. It's hard to see why not when you actually look at what the rest of the world is doing. At the same time countries in Region 1 aren't supposed to get access to 7100-7200 until the middle of 2007. Many of them already have, but for those that haven't, a phone subband that goes down to 7125 still doesn't even reach the top edge of their whole band. Doubtless some of them will be late in implementing the extra spectrum, so forced split working will drag on a while longer. Alun you've been dumping this old whine into the groups for years now and it's long since worn out. Not that it needs to be explained to you *again* but the FCC is *protecting* the dx from the hordes of Yanks who would obliterate the dx if we were allowed to run SSB below 7100. the FCC does not care about protecting DX forgien or domestic the ARRL may well have when they sugested this sort of arngementmany years (part of incentive licening I supose) |
#9
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an_old_friend wrote:
wrote: the FCC does not care about protecting DX forgien or domestic .. . . domestic DX . . ? the ARRL may well have when they sugested this sort of arngementmany years (part of incentive licening I supose) Doesn't matter where the concept came from originally, it's been in place for decades. w3rv |
#10
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wrote in
ups.com: Alun L. Palmer wrote: Slow Code wrote in news:6tgXg.8071$Y24.103 @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: "Iitoi" wrote in ink.net: 80M and 40M phone band expansion http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc I don't know if we'll get Mad right away but it's clear the FCC and the ARRL want to drive all good hams out of the service. Little by little they'll take away the non-phone portions of the bands and hand it over to the phone users. Like a frog in a pot of water that's raised to boiling point, one day us real hams will find we have to place to communicate on the ham bands that doesn't sound like Citizens Band. SC Here's a reality check. On 80m the rest of the world, except Canada, has always had phone down to 3600 as far back as I can remember, and we are merely joining them. The VE phone ops still have to stay above 3700, I think. On 40m the international bandplans have phone down to 7040 except in Region 3 where it is 7030. The only countries that I know of where you can't use phone down to 7040 are Mexico (7050) and the USA (now 7125 after the change). US hams outside Region 2 have had phone down to 7075 for years, and I am on record as suggesting that we should have that in the mainland US. It's hard to see why not when you actually look at what the rest of the world is doing. At the same time countries in Region 1 aren't supposed to get access to 7100-7200 until the middle of 2007. Many of them already have, but for those that haven't, a phone subband that goes down to 7125 still doesn't even reach the top edge of their whole band. Doubtless some of them will be late in implementing the extra spectrum, so forced split working will drag on a while longer. Alun you've been dumping this old whine into the groups for years now and it's long since worn out. Not that it needs to be explained to you *again* but the FCC is *protecting* the dx from the hordes of Yanks who would obliterate the dx if we were allowed to run SSB below 7100. Dee also explaned it in her immediately preceeding post, read it, give us a break and internalize it this time then go find something new to grouse about for the next five years. Maybe by then your chums in the UK will be able to transceive with you above 7125. How would you like it if your 40m CW allocation were on frequencies that were off limits to the DX? The difference is all about one SSB signal taking up the same amout of spectrum space as 5-10 CW signals. On 20m and 15m we still have 50 kHz less phone on each band than all other countries. Although General and Advanced got bigger phone subbands on 15 (as well as 80 and 40), the bottom edge of phone didn't move on 15 (or 20). 73 de Alun, N3KIP (20wpm Extra, 100% phone op) There's your real problem. w3rv I can work the UK on 40 phone now without going split. They can use 7040- 7200 now. OTOH, who knows when the broadcasters will ever move? It's a complete crock about protecting the DX. The answer for ragchewers has always been to use a band that isn't open to where you want to be protected from, i.e. don't ragchew on an open band unless you want DX (meaning in this case US hams) to ask to join the QSO (some actually like it when that happens, you know). It's not really hard for them to find a band that isn't open to the US. |
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