Having observed issues and changes in recent years, I think the
question that has to be asked at some point is whether or not the ARRL
should continue to attempt to influence rules, laws, etc. The money
that they have to be spending on legal efforts, lobbying, etc has got
to be significant. I think any objective observer would conclude that
their ability to influence legislation, FCC rules, etc in recent years
has been pretty dismal. Earlier in their history, the ARRL had the
ability to do this. Times change. In today's world, the Imperial FCC
chooses to do what it wants to do, selectively uses public comments
that support their pre-determined outcomes, fails to enforce its own
rules and is happy ignore factual data or public sentiment in the
process. Resources may be better spent in providing new and different
services to members rather than flush it down the commode under the
banner of "fighting city hall."

Russ
K3Pi

On Feb 13, 10:20�am, james wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 21:28:11 -0800, "

wrote:
+++On Feb 12, 4:35?pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:

+++ * The only "CW sub-bands" that Techs have is a small
+++ * sliver on the bottom of two VHF ham bands. *Of course,
+++ * all other classes can use those. *shrug *So?
+++
+++ *
+++

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Only giving back which was taken away. In a land far far away and
along time ago Techs had some CW priviledge on 2 and 6 meter CW if my
senile memory has not forgotten me.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point. "CW" can be used just
about
everywhere on amateur bands from 160m on up to sub-THz.

My remark was on "CW" ONLY. Where's your beef?

LA

On Feb 12, 5:03�pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 16:29:18 -0800, "
wrote in
.com:

On Feb 12, 2:35?pm, robert casey wrote:
NEWINGTON, CT, Feb 9, 2007 -- As new Amateur Radio Service rules phase
in Friday, February 23,

You realize that the 23rd, when you divide 2 by 3, you'll get 666, the
devil's area code? *Sounds like a bad omen to me.... *:-)

* Sorry, that is a SERIOUS FACTUAL ERROR!!!

* Dividing 2 by 3 results in the decimal fraction 0.66666666666666...

* That is NOT the Bible's reference to "the number of the beast."

The number of the beast is 616, not 666.

Hey, ol' Wirenut, I thought your number was "up" or something? :-)

Welcome back.

LA

From: "wavetrapper" on 13 Feb 2007 10:38:16 -0800
Subject: ARRL Now Only Wants No Code Hams - Holding Midnight Exams

Having observed issues and changes in recent years, I think the
question that has to be asked at some point is whether or not the ARRL
should continue to attempt to influence rules, laws, etc.

Why not? The ARRL is a private incorporated entity. As
a legal entity in the USA they have every right to make
themselves heard to our government.

The money
that they have to be spending on legal efforts, lobbying, etc has got
to be significant.

"Significant" is a subjective word, isn't quantifiable.

Their IRS Returns show the amount they've spent on services
from a professional lobbying group and a law firm. One of
the law firm's partners is Chris Imlay, a member of the
ARRL's high inner circle. ARRL's recent IRS Returns
show a multi-million dollar PROFIT for their "non-profit"
organization.

I think any objective observer would conclude that
their ability to influence legislation, FCC rules, etc in recent years
has been pretty dismal.

The ARRL hasn't gotten carte blanche on what IT wanted,
true. But, it was never a god of radio and really did
NOT know what was "best" for US amateur radio...but it
seemed to know "what was best" for the Leagues' inner
commanders and their core membership.

Earlier in their history, the ARRL had the ability to do this.

So, they've convinced you they did? :-)

Back in the 1920s and 1930s the League had trumped their
organization competitors in the USA. At that time there
was little in the way of citizens communicating quickly
to DC and getting replies back. ARRL provided the
opinion-courier services, a nice letter-head and all the
appearance of "being important." It certainly didn't hurt
that H.P.Maxim had personal resources to make trips to DC
to do his lobbying efforts.

ARRL was able to (profitably enough) publish a monthly
magazine (purportedly a 'membership' periodical) of
special interest to radio amateurs. The IMAGE of "being
all for amateur radio" took hold in the limited ham
public eye. It stuck, rightly or wrongly. There were no
real competitors in amateur radio publications before or
just after WW2.

Times change.

No kidding? :-)

The appearance of RIVAL publications soon after end of
WW2 (CQ, 73) plus the 1960's "question authority" mood
began to erode the League's carefully-manicured IMAGE.
ARRL increased its efforts to present the authoritative
"mission" of them knowing what was best for amateur
radio...consistently that being "work DX on HF with CW."
VHF and above was a dark, mysterious region to the
League and they generally avoided that new area or just
didn't bother much with such things...it wasn't "ham
radio" as they knew it.

Once the Internet got going and the US government joined
up, the common folk COULD talk to DC at the speed of
light without any intermediaries to selectively sort/
sanction their words. No more did US radio amateurs
have to go through their "district directors" to talk to
Washington. The capitol began to "listen" more and more
to citizens through the Internet.

The Internet didn't do it all. Before the 1991 public
entrance of the www, there was already the movement to
toss the code test with the creation of the no-code-test
Technician class. That became LAW despite the efforts
of the ARRL (which supposedly "knew what was best for
ham radio") to stop it. Even before that, well before,
the FCC was cognizant of morse code's diminishing use
in the whole, wide world of radio communications.

Around 2000, the IARU was for a total rewrite of ITU-R
Radio Regulation S25. With that would be removal of
the necessity for administrations to test for morse
code for any amateur radio license privileges below
30 MHz. ARRL was opposed to that. They remained
opposed until WRC-03 was scheduled for Geneva, then
they took a "neutral" stance in public just before
the conference beginning. The ARRL inner circle was
against dropping the code test for US amateur
applicants but took on a better-PR appearance of "no
comment." The S25 rewrite took place and was voted in.
[ARRL can't vote on such ITU things, only "advise"]

Many countries dropped the code test for amateur licenses
after WRC-03. The FCC was obliged to stay with the
State Department - NTIA - FCC triumvirate representing
the US adminstration. A new Petition for removing the
code test didn't appear at the FCC until 2005. The
ARRL was against it and wanted THEIR version, which HAD
to include some code testing (the ARRL "knows what is
best for ham radio"...and it was what THEY wanted).

In today's world, the Imperial FCC
chooses to do what it wants to do, selectively uses public comments
that support their pre-determined outcomes, fails to enforce its own
rules and is happy ignore factual data or public sentiment in the
process.

Sourness Alert! Sour grapes time! It is rather obvious
that YOU favor continued code testing and think you
are in some "majority" in regards to that.

The FCC isn't "imperial." It is (now) an independent
agency of the Administration of the United States,
created in 1934. [I was then two years old and you did
not exist] With all the radio services it must, by law,
regulate now, it does not "favor" amateur radio. What
the FCC did do was simply go the course as with all other
Petitions, allowing time for Comments (even extending that
time twice), then considered ALL those Comments for full
year before deciding. Specific things they considered are
well described in the body of FCC 06-178.

If there is ANY organization in the USA that is "imperial"
then it is that of the ARRL. They ignored world opinion,
toadied to their core membership (olde-tyme morsemen), and
simply ignored the majority. They didn't worry. Their
publications were giving them a multi-million dollar a
year PROFIT for their "non-profit" activities. They
believed in their own propaganda and loved the life of
"leadership." They still didn't try to entice the HUGE
Technician class licensee group...until AFTER 06-178 was
announced. AFTER. They aren't fools and know that a
sustained League existance requires NEW membership. If
existing license are EXPIRING at a rate of 78 a day
but NEW licensees represent only 32 a day, they don't
have to be mathematicians to realize numbers are shrinking.
Newcomers have - by far - come into US amateur radio
through the no-code-test Technician class.

Resources may be better spent in providing new and different
services to members rather than flush it down the commode under the
banner of "fighting city hall."

Do you consider Access BPL to be "city hall" doings that
the League should NOT fight? Sorry, but BPL is a clear
and present danger to anyone using HF for any purpose.
The ARRL needs to keep the pressure on Washington to fight
BPL. After all, with lots of BPL QRM, it is hard to "work
DX on HF with CW." The League only lives for HF bands.

What "services" would you suggest the ARRL be doing?
Give you fancy bordered certificates (suitable for
framing) for your state-of-the-art morse code ability?
Provide free franking privileges for your QSL cards?
Give you a spare radio in case your ready-built fails
and it needs factory repair? Have a representative come
and hold your hand when you contest?

The League provides a number of services already and has
been doing so for years for its membership. Don't
begrudge those. Just try to remember a small group of
New Englanders are NOT gods of radio, just a minority
membership group in the amateur radio hobby, and are
a profit-making publisher of amateur radio special-
interest material.

Try to remember that the US government does pretty well
at governing ALL its citizens, political parties aside.
An "Imperial" dictatorship can be an apt descriptor of
a bunch of old men who consider themselves Elite in radio
because they could emulate the professionals of 70 years
ago. So, you've lost a government decision. TS happens.

On 13 Feb 2007 11:45:01 -0800, "
wrote:

+++On Feb 13, 10:20?am, james wrote:
+++ On 12 Feb 2007 21:28:11 -0800, "
+++
+++ wrote:
+++ +++On Feb 12, 4:35?pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:
+++
+++ +++ The only "CW sub-bands" that Techs have is a small
+++ +++ sliver on the bottom of two VHF ham bands. f course,
+++ +++ all other classes can use those. shrug o?
+++ +++
+++ +++
+++ +++
+++
+++ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
+++
+++ Only giving back which was taken away. In a land far far away and
+++ along time ago Techs had some CW priviledge on 2 and 6 meter CW if my
+++ senile memory has not forgotten me.
+++
+++ I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point. "CW" can be used just
+++about
+++ everywhere on amateur bands from 160m on up to sub-THz.
+++
+++ My remark was on "CW" ONLY. Where's your beef?
+++
+++ LA
**************

No beef. Just stating that back in the 60's novices and techs had 2
meter CW priviledges that were altered at a later date.

The FCC band usage has changed many times in the past 50 years. This
recent change is not unusual or anything new.

james

On 13 Feb 2007 11:48:00 -0800, "
wrote in
om:

On Feb 12, 5:03?pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 16:29:18 -0800, "
wrote in
.com:

On Feb 12, 2:35?pm, robert casey wrote:
NEWINGTON, CT, Feb 9, 2007 -- As new Amateur Radio Service rules phase
in Friday, February 23,

You realize that the 23rd, when you divide 2 by 3, you'll get 666, the
devil's area code? ounds like a bad omen to me.... :-)

Sorry, that is a SERIOUS FACTUAL ERROR!!!

Dividing 2 by 3 results in the decimal fraction 0.66666666666666...

That is NOT the Bible's reference to "the number of the beast."

The number of the beast is 616, not 666.

Hey, ol' Wirenut, I thought your number was "up" or something? :-)

Welcome back.

LA


I'm not "back"..... the thread is being crossposted to rrcb and a few
other groups. As for the number of the beast, check this out:

http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm

On 13 Feb 2007 13:52:02 -0800, "
wrote:

+++ Why not? The ARRL is a private incorporated entity. As
+++ a legal entity in the USA they have every right to make
+++ themselves heard to our government.
***************

Not as a corporate entity. The government is of the people and by the
people and not of the Corporation and by the Corporation.

james

On 13 Feb 2007 10:38:16 -0800, "wavetrapper" wrote:

+++Having observed issues and changes in recent years, I think the
+++question that has to be asked at some point is whether or not the ARRL
+++should continue to attempt to influence rules, laws, etc. The money
+++that they have to be spending on legal efforts, lobbying, etc has got
+++to be significant. I think any objective observer would conclude that
+++their ability to influence legislation, FCC rules, etc in recent years
+++has been pretty dismal. Earlier in their history, the ARRL had the
+++ability to do this. Times change. In today's world, the Imperial FCC
+++chooses to do what it wants to do, selectively uses public comments
+++that support their pre-determined outcomes, fails to enforce its own
+++rules and is happy ignore factual data or public sentiment in the
+++process. Resources may be better spent in providing new and different
+++services to members rather than flush it down the commode under the
+++banner of "fighting city hall."
+++
+++Russ
+++K3Pi
***********
The FCC does as Congress dictates. Remember COngress holds the purse
strings for the FCC as well as the power to remove and appoint
commisioners. The FCC is an extension of Congress.

james

wrote in message
oups.com...

There's one little problem, "Stefan." Isn't ANY "Stefan Wolfe"
in the FCC CORES database. The best that can be found
are two Steven Wolfes:

Steven H. Wolfe, KC4UZW, Tech, FRN 0004408340
Steven B. Wolfe, KC9KTN, Tech, FRN 0016067183

Curses. Foiled again :-)

On Feb 13, 3:26�pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 11:48:00 -0800, "
wrote in
om:





On Feb 12, 5:03?pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 16:29:18 -0800, "
wrote in
.com:

On Feb 12, 2:35?pm, robert casey wrote:
NEWINGTON, CT, Feb 9, 2007 -- As new Amateur Radio Service rules phase
in Friday, February 23,

You realize that the 23rd, when you divide 2 by 3, you'll get 666, the
devil's area code? *ounds like a bad omen to me.... :-)

*Sorry, that is a SERIOUS FACTUAL ERROR!!!

*Dividing 2 by 3 results in the decimal fraction 0.66666666666666....

*That is NOT the Bible's reference to "the number of the beast."

The number of the beast is 616, not 666.

* Hey, ol' Wirenut, I thought your number was "up" or something? *:-)

* Welcome back.

* LA

I'm not "back"..... the thread is being crossposted to rrcb and a few
other groups. As for the number of the beast, check this out:

http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm- Hide quoted text -

Roger that, Wirenut. Link is mildly interesting but wasn't
my thing. MY thing was all the morsemen and THEIR
number is "up." :-)

LA