------------ wrote:

On Feb 27, 3:49 pm, dxAce wrote:
------------ wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:10 pm, wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:30 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:

"Jim Shaffer" wrote in message

.. .

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:35:46 -0500, "Stefan Wolfe"
wrote:

Don't bother disagreeing with me; it is the
large subset of the amateur base that you have to convince and,
unfortunately, that will take a while to change IF it ever does change.

And when you're all dead, nobody will remember you, or if they do
they'll laugh their asses off.

So you depend upon some sort of massive die-off to validate your license
class?

Its in the cards. The ARS hasn't enlisted young people in numbers
since the 60's. The die-off is coming.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's what the hams get for trying to keep everyone else out of it
for so long, even when they knew radio theory, and for trying to keep
it their own little exclusive club wher only a very few people are
members, even though they don't know a thing about radio theory.

Keep people out for decades.

No one was kept out. They kept themselves out through their refusal to learn the
code

wrong. I studied for the code and written test. They kept me and
others out by giving required to get your ham liscence phony ham tests
in addition to the real test, claiming it was also part of the real
test, marking correct answers wrong, and then claiming that wrong
answers were the correct answers.

question "What does ATV stand for as relating to amateur radio?"

My answer: "ATV stands for amateur tv, also known as ham tv"

They marked it wrong and then told me that "the correct answer is an
All-Terrain Vehhicle that is equipped with an amateur radio set. There
is't any such thing as amateur tv or ham tv.

THAT IS purposely keeping people out.

If that was the case (though I doubt it), all you had to do was test elsewhere.

Personally, I think you're just a crybaby.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote:

If that was the case (though I doubt it), all you had to do was test
elsewhere.

I only tested with VEs who gave you a free FT-1000D when you passed your
20wpm code test.

On Feb 27, 8:04 pm, dxAce wrote:
------------ wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:49 pm, dxAce wrote:
------------ wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:10 pm, wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:30 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:

"Jim Shaffer" wrote in message

.. .

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:35:46 -0500, "Stefan Wolfe"
wrote:

Don't bother disagreeing with me; it is the
large subset of the amateur base that you have to convince and,
unfortunately, that will take a while to change IF it ever does change.

And when you're all dead, nobody will remember you, or if they do
they'll laugh their asses off.

So you depend upon some sort of massive die-off to validate your license
class?

Its in the cards. The ARS hasn't enlisted young people in numbers
since the 60's. The die-off is coming.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's what the hams get for trying to keep everyone else out of it
for so long, even when they knew radio theory, and for trying to keep
it their own little exclusive club wher only a very few people are
members, even though they don't know a thing about radio theory.

Keep people out for decades.

No one was kept out. They kept themselves out through their refusal to learn the
code

wrong. I studied for the code and written test. They kept me and
others out by giving required to get your ham liscence phony ham tests
in addition to the real test, claiming it was also part of the real

..

If that was the case (though I doubt it), all you had to do was test elsewhere.

Nope. If you tried to take the test in the neighboring counties where
you didn't live, they would refer you back to your local county.

Personally, I think you're just a crybaby.

Nope. I'm not crying about it and never have. Just getting the truth
out.

I've been quiet about it for over twenty years. It's about time that
the truth about them finally comes out to the public.

However, with the CW requirement now eliminated, I'm sure enough good
people will finally get into ham radio and be able to keep an eye on
those old bozo hams (who did pass the cw test since it was required
back then).



-

- Show quoted text -

policy-ham wrote:
Found on qrz.com. The ARRL now only wants only no code hams. And as
for the rest of us?

W1AW Special Event, Midnight Exam Sessions to Mark New Amateur Rules

NEWINGTON, CT, Feb 9, 2007 -- As new Amateur Radio Service rules phase
in Friday, February 23, eliminating the Morse code requirement, Hiram
Percy Maxim Memorial Station W1AW will mark the milestone with a
weekend-long special event. In addition, a number of Central
Connecticut volunteer examiners will be on hand at ARRL Headquarters
-- both before and after the new rules become effective at 12:01 AM
EST -- to offer Amateur Radio examinations under both the current and
new rules. ARRL Regulatory Information Specialist Dan Henderson, N1ND,
is helping to coordinate the celebration. He says Headquarters staff
and other volunteers will keep W1AW active for the "Welcome Weekend"
event.
...

ph:

Since 1995 the hand writing on the wall spelled out the doom of CW.

However, the sheer momentum which was built up by the dyed-in-wool
hardcore CW'ers carried it on. Time and time again resurrected it from
its' tomb and breathed life anew in CWs' brittle bones.

The arrl, being the professional politicians (or, as I like to refer to
ALL politicians--public butt lickers) they are, make the proper noises
and finally let lose the grip they had on the dead and bony fingers of
CW. However, don't be fooled. They only do so because even they have
woken to the fact there will be no resurrecting CW another time and do
not wish their true motives to be seen in the light of day. Now they
seek to shore up the old and ancient myths and class systems which has
made amateur radio a good ole boys club and placed it under their control.

Beware, the future will only bring more stealth, deception and
disinformation from the arrl as they seek to maintain the status quo on
what is left of their control freak, class system and good ole boys club
which they have established for amateur radio. They need to have their
dead old fingers pried from its' death grip they maintain on amateur radio.

JS

wrote:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:49:35 -0500, dxAce
wrote:



------------ wrote:

On Feb 14, 8:10 pm, wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:30 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:





"Jim Shaffer" wrote in message

.. .

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:35:46 -0500, "Stefan Wolfe"
wrote:

Don't bother disagreeing with me; it is the
large subset of the amateur base that you have to convince and,
unfortunately, that will take a while to change IF it ever does change.

And when you're all dead, nobody will remember you, or if they do
they'll laugh their asses off.

So you depend upon some sort of massive die-off to validate your license
class?

Its in the cards. The ARS hasn't enlisted young people in numbers
since the 60's. The die-off is coming.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's what the hams get for trying to keep everyone else out of it
for so long, even when they knew radio theory, and for trying to keep
it their own little exclusive club wher only a very few people are
members, even though they don't know a thing about radio theory.

Keep people out for decades.

No one was kept out.

really

Really.

------------ wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:49 pm, dxAce wrote:

No one was kept out. They kept themselves out through their refusal to learn the
code

wrong. I studied for the code and written test. They kept me and
others out by giving required to get your ham liscence phony ham tests
in addition to the real test, claiming it was also part of the real
test, marking correct answers wrong, and then claiming that wrong
answers were the correct answers.

question "What does ATV stand for as relating to amateur radio?"

My answer: "ATV stands for amateur tv, also known as ham tv"

They marked it wrong and then told me that "the correct answer is an
All-Terrain Vehhicle that is equipped with an amateur radio set. There
is't any such thing as amateur tv or ham tv.

THAT IS purposely keeping people out.





If that's the case, you only had to file a complaint. You clearly
didn't take your test with an FCC examiner. More likely a VE, or at an
ARRL event, or hamfest.

FCC takes testing irregularities seriously. What your suggesting,
here, is a crime. If taken with an FCC examiner, your experience would
have been highly public, at a testing event, and there would be many
witnesses. Witnesses to not only support your claim but to file
complaints of their own. FCC examiners at the event would have been
summarily terminated. And you'd be permitted to retest again. At no cost
to you.

If you took your test with a VE, at a hamfest, a single complaint
can get a VE summarily decertified while the merit of your complaint is
evaluated. Again, there would be witnesses, and supporting complaints.
And you would have been redirected to another VE for retesting.

That said, your complaint, here, is quite difficult to swallow.
First of all, all government issued tests, and that includes FCC and
even FAA tests, which should give us all pause, are required to publish
and maike available both the pool of questions AND their answers to
anyone interested in testing. Non published questions are NOT permitted
on the tests. This has the force of law. That means your phoney ham
tests is an allegation of a criminal act. Believe me when I tell you,
anyone observing this would raise holy hell if anyone were turned away
based on a 'phoney' test. In this litigious society, the lawsuits would
far outlive your interest in amateur radio.

And finally, there has been amateur TV since before there was TV. If
you have really studied your theory and legal elements, you would know
that a portion of many of the bands are set aside for slow-scan TV on HF
and fast scan TV VHF and above. There IS amateur TV. And any study
materials you'd have access to would include it.


So your story is false on its face. And you've neither studied code
in earnest (outside of the Cub Scout and Boy Scout merit badges) nor any
of the elements.




And one other thing...if you really expect us to believe your
complaint, it may be useful to not go to such lengths to remain
anonymous. Many, here, use handles and nicknames, we've come to
correspond with them privately, many have done business with some of
them, bought and sold radios, shared schematics...You're clearly not
willing to participate in any of that. And as such seem to be only about
the bitch, and not about the hobby, as your absurd anecdote attests.

If you'd like to try again, and if you're genuinely interested in
pursuing amateur radio, try being more of a participant. And a little
more genuine. You'll find that amateurs, as a whole, are a pretty
inclusive bunch. And any obstacles you face will be non-issues in the
wake of the juggernaut of knowledge and experience that will come your way.


p

Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc,
rec.radio.cb, rec.radio.shortwave
From: John Smith I on Wed, Feb 28 2007 8:19
am
Subject: ARRL Now Only Wants No Code Hams - Holding Midnight Exams

policy-ham wrote:
Found on qrz.com. The ARRL now only wants only no code hams. And as
for the rest of us?

W1AW Special Event, Midnight Exam Sessions to Mark New Amateur Rules

snip of much-repeated "news" item

ph:

Since 1995 the hand writing on the wall spelled out the doom of CW.

JS, that evolved in ALL radio services from a much earlier
period. In general the experiences of and with radio
communications during World War 2 was the "Great Awakener."

However, the sheer momentum which was built up by the dyed-in-wool
hardcore CW'ers carried it on. Time and time again resurrected it from
its' tomb and breathed life anew in CWs' brittle bones.

In amateur radio that may be exaggerated but true.

The built-in fact of amateur radio being basically a hobby
makes it ultra-conservative insofar as actual innovation
and experimentation is concerned. Hobbies are a pasttime
for most and thus there is less time available for
participants to either learn more, keep up with, or
actually do operating. As a result, many prefer the
"tried-and-true" methods and modes they are used to, or
feel comfortable with.

Underneath all of that amateur radio activity is the
long-term but subtle emotional influence of amateur-
radio-oriented media, namely the enormous quantity of
publications of the ARRL. The ARRL has kept the Mythos
of Morse alive for decades, decades longer than it
deserves as a communications means. The enormity of
their publications base has been in existance for so
many decades that few members are aware of their
(insidious) influence on their thinking.

The arrl, being the professional politicians (or, as I like to refer to
ALL politicians--public butt lickers) they are, make the proper noises
and finally let lose the grip they had on the dead and bony fingers of
CW. However, don't be fooled. They only do so because even they have
woken to the fact there will be no resurrecting CW another time and do
not wish their true motives to be seen in the light of day. Now they
seek to shore up the old and ancient myths and class systems which has
made amateur radio a good ole boys club and placed it under their control.

In all fairness and logic, SURVIVAL of anything is the
most important human motivator. Politicians,
organizations, and corporations all have a basic need
to SURVIVE. They must cater to their constituency or
target market to do this.

The ARRL can be summed up as having two basic components:
A publishing house (prime) and a membership organization
(secondary). ARRL's annual reportable income exceeds the
million-dollar value by at least an order of magnitude;
they reported higher-than-ten-million dollars income to
the IRS four years ago. They could NOT have achieved that
just from annual member dues.

An oft-used argument is that the ARRL offers "so many 'free'
services." The ARRL VEC exam fees are the top of the limit
yet some of the other seven (?) VECs charge less. The ARRL
offers "help" on license renewals and paperwork to the FCC.
That is just lip-gloss since: (1) There is NO charge to any
licensed amateur at the FCC except for Vanity call
applications; (2) Paperwork handling AT the FCC for license
adminstrative matters is no more difficult to do on the
Internet OR by mail than through the ARRL (as an intermediary).

Back before the Internet went public in 1991, it was very
convenient to have the ARRL "represent all radio amateurs"
in lobbying and legal-speaking to the FCC. Most citizens
tend to shirk direct talking/communicating with their
government (although some have done so and effectively so).
Having a legal firm on retainer IN Washington, DC, is more
effective than individual citizens writing letters from
Montana, Arizona, Hawaii, or Oregon, all several time zones
away from DC and days of postal delivery away. [CT is in
the same time zone as DC and physically much closer than,
say, most-populous California] Radio amateurs tended to
prefer someone "speaking for them" so that they would have
more time to play with their radios.

Another argument of those championing the ARRL is that
they "have a democratic-principled representation" through
their own established Districts and "elections." Actually,
there are NO similarities to our federal government's
democratic principles and practices; the only similarity
is to several national fraternal orders, all private
organizations. Supposedly there is a "third-party
observer" to ARRL elections, but that is NOT anything
similar to the built-in Checks and Balances of the real
federal government. Those federal (and local) Checks
and Balances DO NOT APPLY to private membership
organizations. Yet the IMPLICATION of similarity is so
often done that it has become just-another-urban-myth,
emotional sustenance for its membership.

The ARRL remains a MINORITY special-interest-group in
US amateur radio...yet they imply (often) that they
"represent all [US] amateurs." The ARRL only publishes
a CLUE as to their membership totals twice a year; In
the "publishers sworn statement" about QST, the member-
ship magazine of the ARRL. ARRL membership is still
only a quarter of all US amateur radio licensees. QST
survives as a periodical on its advertisers ad purchases.
QST is the major periodical target for manufacturers
and service-providers of the amateur radio market. QST
has a virtual (if not de facto) monopoly as an amateur
radio advertising medium in the USA. Note: Three other
INDEPENDENT amateur radio interest periodicals have
survived for over a double decade of existance of each
yet two have had to close or sell. Their incomes
depended on advertising space sales. When the ad
monies diminished those independents did not have the
demographics to attract enough advertisers as compared
to the ARRL. The number of members keeps QST demographics
high, thus it serves to keep its survival intact...and
serve as a free advertising medium for its OWN products
and services.

Beware, the future will only bring more stealth, deception and
disinformation from the arrl as they seek to maintain the status quo on
what is left of their control freak, class system and good ole boys club
which they have established for amateur radio. They need to have their
dead old fingers pried from its' death grip they maintain on amateur radio.

Human life expectancy will take care of that. Eventually
the core membership of the ARRL and its chieftans will
understand that this new millennium is NOT the same as it
was in the 1930 to 1960 period when They were young (and
supposedly vibrant). Times and tecnology have changed
enormously yet the Mythos persist on the "necessity" to
hold to the old, old standards. However, to retain their
CONTROL ("they know what is good for ham radio") while
they still live (and rule) they must insure that the Big
Publishing House survives. That income is what gives them
the perquisites and power of quasi-rule over others. They
MUST acquiesce their quaint old ideas and mythos however
much that hurts their psyches. WE still have time to see
the Change happening...but I am not optimistic about it.

73s,

wrote:

...
73s,



Len:

Just for starters, it pieces me off that the FCC doesn't even host the
download of the amateur pool questions "right-out-and-openly" on their
web page. This alone gives the VEC and arrl MUCH more credibility then
the toothless old grumps deserve. And, I have complained about this ...
I will continue to do so, use the public funds and keep this outta
private hands and influence!

The arrl need to go, and Carl is NOT looking like a good replacement
with NCI when he boot licks ... amateur radio needs a new start and some
new blood ... someone needs to kick some real booty here.

Regards,
JS

On Feb 28, 5:46�pm, John Smith I wrote:
wrote:

* ...

Len:

Just for starters, it pieces me off that the FCC doesn't even host the
download of the amateur pool questions "right-out-and-openly" on their
web page.

JS, amateur radio is not even close to their main task of
regulating ALL civil radio in the USA. However, they could
make a small link to www.ncvec.org if they bothered.

For real complaints, you might address the FCC on why
they do NOT bother with many updates of the amateur
radio page under the Wireless Bureau. They haven't kept
that updated but sporadically since the NPRM on
Restructuring (FCC 98-143) came out in 1998.

*This alone gives the VEC and arrl MUCH more credibility then
the toothless old grumps deserve.

I'd say the NCVEC is reasonably up-to-date given
their voluntary task of coming up with new QPs every
three years or so. The ARRL is only part of the VEC.

*And, I have complained about this ...
I will continue to do so, use the public funds and keep this outta
private hands and influence!

Sorry, but the privatization of radio operator testing put
that in very private hands of the COLEM and the VEC.
I haven't looked for a COLEM QPC but have no doubt it
exists somewhere. My First 'Phone that morphed into
a GROL went lifetime, no renewal and I have no need to
go look for that commercial pool.


The arrl need to go, and Carl is NOT looking like a good replacement
with NCI when he boot licks ... amateur radio needs a new start and some
new blood ... someone needs to kick some real booty here.

That's a subjective opinion, JS, and I won't fault Carl S. on
what he has done and stated in various places. I disagreed
with what NCI did NOT do immediately on FCC 06-178 when
it first broke news last December...but then NCI is really
an international movement, not strictly one for the USA.

While the USA is a LATE-comer on tossing the morse code
exam internationally, there still exist other countries who have
kept it, one way or another.

In my opinion, NCI could either dissolve or change away from
being USA-oriented with a different direction. NCI's basic
goals have largely been realized and, in that, was a success
to my mind.

As long as there is money to be made from publishing to a
niche hobby activity, the ARRL will be firmly entrenched.
Human attrition will eventually cause their metamorphosis.

73, LA

John Smith I wrote:
wrote:

...
73s,



Len:

Just for starters, it pieces me off that the FCC doesn't even host the
download of the amateur pool questions "right-out-and-openly" on their
web page. This alone gives the VEC and arrl MUCH more credibility then
the toothless old grumps deserve. And, I have complained about this ...
I will continue to do so, use the public funds and keep this outta
private hands and influence!

The arrl need to go, and Carl is NOT looking like a good replacement
with NCI when he boot licks ... amateur radio needs a new start and some
new blood ... someone needs to kick some real booty here.

Regards,
JS
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean here. The Amateur Radio
question pool was developed by a committee composed of representatives
from the various Volunteer Examination Coordinator organizations noot
the FCC. The questions are posted on the Internet and are available for
anyone to view. If you go to www.qrz.com you will find a routine that
will allow you to take a sample quiz. If you do this enough times you
will be able to pass the various level tests.
The ARRL does not have anything near exclusivity in this process. They
only have one vote in the process. I don't know exactly how many other
organizations there are but I know of at least three.
As for replacing the ARRL as an orginization feel free to do so. So far
they are the only group to stay in business.

Dave WD9BDZ