On Apr 22, 10:22 am, "Larry" wrote:
On 22 Apr 2007 04:18:41 -0700, wrote:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the
greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an
increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere,

with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water
vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect

and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in
temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water
vapor;

and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached.

Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided
by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2.[9] Changes in water
vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation.


http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Featur...GlobalWarming&...

That so-called "primer" neglects to mention that water vapor is a major
greenhouse gas and that water vapor constitutes 95% of the greenhouse
gases in the atmosphere. That makes water vapor (which comes mostly
from the oceans) THE most important greenhouse gas because of its
overwhelming presence.

The "primer" also neglects to mention that the oceans absorb / release a
great deal of atmospheric CO2 as their temperatures change, complicating
any simple-minded attempt to relate atmospheric CO2 to human production
of CO2.

As the debate continues in the public realm, the average person is going
to realize that the alarmists aren't making much scientific sense at
all. That will be a good thing and may save all of us from needless and
damaging public policy.

On 22 Apr 2007 10:34:09 -0700, wrote:
On Apr 22, 10:22 am, "Larry" wrote:
On 22 Apr 2007 04:18:41 -0700, wrote:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the
greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an
increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere,

It's going to be difficult for those people to explain the very real
fact that the earth has been measurably cooling for the last eight
years, in spite of an increase in CO2 levels.

I've done lots of computer modeling in my time, and I know how terribly
inaccurate computer models can be, even in the hands of trained
scientists. First of all, computers use finite sized registers (only so
many digits per number), and differential equations must be approximated
by means of various numerical techniques. Often, the modelers who write
the programs aren't really cognizant of truncation and roundoff errors
and how those errors propagate throughout their calculations. It is
quite easy to wind up with answers which are totally meaningless at the
end of several hundred million arithmetic operations, because by then
all you may have left is basically reproducible digital noise. It isn't
enough to have a good mathematical model and good data when you start.
You must also have an experienced numerical analyst examine and test
your computer algorithms if you want to have any chance of avoiding
digital oblivion. The algorithms must be completely tested with data
that give a known answer before they can be used for anything else.

Most atmospheric scientists are lousy numerical analysts. Most
numerical analysts are lousy atmospheric scientists. Guess what you are
likely to get when you use either individual by himself to produce a
computer model?

The modeling aside, it always makes me suspicious when someone invokes
what amounts to an unstable equilibrium argument (a tipping point) to
explain how a minority variable (CO2) can drastically influence the 95%
majority greenhouse gas that is H2O. It's akin to arguing that the
atmosphere is like a coin which has been carefully put down on its edge
and which therefore only needs a slight shove to make it fall over.
Nature constantly applies perturbations to the atmospheric system, and
if it were that unstable, it would long ago have "tipped."

The Wikipedia statement looks very much to me like rationalization. The
writer is already invested in the idea that CO2 somehow is the key, and
so he invents an argument to make things come out that way. That's not
science; that's hand waving. Note that he apparently can't attach
numbers or observations to the argument he has made.

But there may be a resolution: According to one group of scientists
which tracks solar irradiance, the observed cooling of the earth is
going to accelerate. They claim that the earth will be significantly
cooler than it is today by 2040. If that even comes partially true,
then we will know that the CO2 advocates have been quite wrong.

Stay tuned.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:30:14 +0000 (UTC), "Larry"
wrote:

It's going to be difficult for those people to explain the very real
fact that the earth has been measurably cooling for the last eight
years, in spite of an increase in CO2 levels.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/env...2006_warm.html

in rec.radio.shortwave, David said about:
( OT) Global Warming, a primer . .


On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:30:14 +0000 (UTC), "Larry"
wrote:

It's going to be difficult for those people to explain the very real
fact that the earth has been measurably cooling for the last eight
years, in spite of an increase in CO2 levels.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/env...2006_warm.html

nasa.gov ???
That says:

=============begin quotes

2006 Was Earth's Fifth Warmest Year in the past century

02.08.07

Graphic listing the top five warmest years recorded Climatologists at
the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City
have found that 2006 was the fifth warmest year in the past century.

Image right:
The five warmest years since
the late 1880s, according to NASA scientists,
are in descending order
2005,
1998,
2002,
2003 and
2006.
Credit: NASA

Other groups that study climate change also rank these years as among
the warmest, though the exact rankings vary depending upon details of
the analyses. Results differ especially in regions of sparse
measurements, where scientists use alternative methods of estimating
temperature change.

Goddard Institute researchers used temperature data from weather
stations on land, satellite measurements of sea surface temperature
since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years.
=============end quotes.

Thanks David!


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

I am not a weather expert,but I know the weather here in
Jackson,Mississippi,for about the last year or so,has been,and still
is,a little cooler than the way it was before.I reckon in about a month
or two or three,the temps will be climbing on up into the 90s,,,,, and
then al gore will be hollering more BS Hot Air louder and louder,,,,,
it's Global Warming!

al gore doesn't know S..T! Weather guy on local tv news said we might
get some rain today,I Hope so.
cuhulin

said about:
( OT) Global Warming, a primer . .


I am not a weather expert,but I know the weather here in
Jackson,Mississippi,for about the last year or so,has been,and still
is,a little cooler than the way it was before.

That is very possible. First, keep in mind that
weather is not climate. No one weather event
can be attributed to GW or it's lack.
Second, the term "global warming" is getting
obsolete. The new, more precise term is "climate change."

"global warming" refers to the average temp of Earth,
not individual local spots. GW puts more energy into
the weather, thus more extreme weather, hotter or colder.

I reckon in about a month
or two or three,the temps will be climbing on up into the 90s,,,,, and
then al gore will be hollering more BS Hot Air louder and louder,,,,,
it's Global Warming!

$50 says you are wrong. He will not.
For the above reasons.
But Rush Limbaugh will shout, "SEE!!??", if it snows.
Again, $50 on Rush.


al gore doesn't know S..T! Weather guy on local tv news said we might
get some rain today,I Hope so.
cuhulin

good luck. We are down to less than 50% rain in Fresno.
....almost nuthin in LA.

....none of that can be blamed on GW.
Only trends and long term averages can.
--Doug


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

On Apr 23, 7:19 am, (Doug Bashford) wrote:
in rec.radio.shortwave, David said about:
( OT) Global Warming, a primer . .

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:30:14 +0000 (UTC), "Larry"
wrote:

It's going to be difficult for those people to explain the very real
fact that the earth has been measurably cooling for the last eight
years, in spite of an increase in CO2 levels.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/env...2006_warm.html

nasa.gov ???
That says:

=============begin quotes

2006 Was Earth's Fifth Warmest Year in the past century

02.08.07

Graphic listing the top five warmest years recorded Climatologists at
the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City
have found that 2006 was the fifth warmest year in the past century.

Image right:
The five warmest years since
the late 1880s, according to NASA scientists,
are in descending order
2005,
1998,
2002,
2003 and
2006.
Credit: NASA


Rank of the Years
Year Temp C Anomaly Z score
2005 14.62 0.653 2.77
1998 14.56 0.593 2.51
2002 14.56 0.593 2.51
2003 14.54 0.573 2.43
2006 14.54 0.573 2.43
2004 14.48 0.513 2.17
2001 14.47 0.503 2.13
1997 14.39 0.423 1.79
1995 14.38 0.413 1.75
1990 14.37 0.403 1.71
1991 14.35 0.383 1.62
2000 14.33 0.363 1.54
1999 14.32 0.353 1.50
MEAN 13.967 0.000 0.00
1893 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1913 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1918 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1894 13.67 -0.297 -1.26
1904 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1908 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1910 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1911 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1912 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1887 13.65 -0.317 -1.34
1909 13.64 -0.327 -1.38
1890 13.63 -0.337 -1.43
1907 13.61 -0.357 -1.51
1917 13.60 -0.367 -1.55

These globally averaged temperature data come from NASA:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ta...LB.Ts+dSST.txt
They represent the results of tens of millions of readings
taken at thousands of land stations and ships around the globe
over the last 128 years. Yes, the land data are corrected for
the urban heat island effect. The sea data do not need to be.
There are few urban centers in the sea.

The last 127 yearly means of these data are graphed at:
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Glob...ean%20Temp.jpg




Other groups that study climate change also rank these years as among
the warmest, though the exact rankings vary depending upon details of
the analyses. Results differ especially in regions of sparse
measurements, where scientists use alternative methods of estimating
temperature change.

Goddard Institute researchers used temperature data from weather
stations on land, satellite measurements of sea surface temperature
since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years.
=============end quotes.

Thanks David!

--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

It's either in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics magazine about four
or five years ago.(I snail mail subscribe to both magazines,I have that
particular magazine floatin around here somewhere.I am the most
unorganized dude on earth,it would take me ten years to dig up that
magazine) A woman whom retired from NASA,she said,,, NASA! YOU ARE
BROKEN!

Go look around in your local area libraries for that magazine,with what
she said on the cover of that magazine,,, and there is a big article
about that in the magazine too.
cuhulin

On Apr 23, 8:00 am, Roger Coppock wrote:
On Apr 23, 7:19 am, (Doug Bashford) wrote:





in rec.radio.shortwave, David said about:
( OT) Global Warming, a primer . .

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:30:14 +0000 (UTC), "Larry"
wrote:

It's going to be difficult for those people to explain the very real
fact that the earth has been measurably cooling for the last eight
years, in spite of an increase in CO2 levels.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/env...2006_warm.html

nasa.gov ???
That says:

=============begin quotes

2006 Was Earth's Fifth Warmest Year in the past century

02.08.07

Graphic listing the top five warmest years recorded Climatologists at
the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City
have found that 2006 was the fifth warmest year in the past century.

Image right:
The five warmest years since
the late 1880s, according to NASA scientists,
are in descending order
2005,
1998,
2002,
2003 and
2006.
Credit: NASA

Rank of the Years
Year Temp C Anomaly Z score
2005 14.62 0.653 2.77
1998 14.56 0.593 2.51
2002 14.56 0.593 2.51
2003 14.54 0.573 2.43
2006 14.54 0.573 2.43
2004 14.48 0.513 2.17
2001 14.47 0.503 2.13
1997 14.39 0.423 1.79
1995 14.38 0.413 1.75
1990 14.37 0.403 1.71
1991 14.35 0.383 1.62
2000 14.33 0.363 1.54
1999 14.32 0.353 1.50
MEAN 13.967 0.000 0.00
1893 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1913 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1918 13.68 -0.287 -1.21
1894 13.67 -0.297 -1.26
1904 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1908 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1910 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1911 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1912 13.66 -0.307 -1.30
1887 13.65 -0.317 -1.34
1909 13.64 -0.327 -1.38
1890 13.63 -0.337 -1.43
1907 13.61 -0.357 -1.51
1917 13.60 -0.367 -1.55

These globally averaged temperature data come from NASA:http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ta...LB.Ts+dSST.txt
They represent the results of tens of millions of readings
taken at thousands of land stations and ships around the globe
over the last 128 years. Yes, the land data are corrected for
the urban heat island effect. The sea data do not need to be.
There are few urban centers in the sea.

The last 127 yearly means of these data are graphed at:http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Glob...ean%20Temp.jpg





Other groups that study climate change also rank these years as among
the warmest, though the exact rankings vary depending upon details of
the analyses. Results differ especially in regions of sparse
measurements, where scientists use alternative methods of estimating
temperature change.

Goddard Institute researchers used temperature data from weather
stations on land, satellite measurements of sea surface temperature
since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years.
=============end quotes.

Thanks David!

--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My God! Can it really be that the Earth has warmed that much in
the 128 years? About 1 degree C.? On no!!!! We are all going to burn
up. The Earth is doomed. The Global Warming Doom Prophets are right.
We must force our governments to do something. We must all get rid of
our cars and trucks and go back to horses and buggies, and sailing
ships. Shut off your electricity. Goodbye computers.
We must force every citizen of our countries to do as the
Prophets of Doom and the governments dictate.
1 degree!!!!! My God, Now I won't be able to sleep at
night. Pass me a few whiskys. Straight up.
Cato

www.devilfinder.com Berit Kjos Global Warming - Green Lies And
Amazing Truths

If y'all think Earth is warm now,,, stick around for about four and a
half billion more years.It will be the end times,I tell you,it will be
the end of everything.
cuhulin