DTC hath wroth:

Radium wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

That idea was touted and attempted over twenty years ago. Back when
cellphone handsets were better described as concrete blocks instead of bricks.

Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

Who said they were gone? Fire up your scanner or service monitor on
the old IMTS frequencies and you'll hear the idle tones or sometimes
idle chatter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMTS_Frequencies
There's still some IMTS phone systems running in "rural" areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Mobile_Telephone_Service
Brings back fond memories of the "RCC wars" (radio common carrier).

However, you're right. I really miss my Motorola T1234 mobile
telephone and giant Secode control head. It really impressed the
various ladyfriends in college.
http://www.privateline.com/PCS/mobilephonepictures.htm
Too bad (for Mr Radium) it was FM.

I did work on an AM/SSB mobile telephone system in about 1974. I
never saw it but as I vaguely recall, it operated on various HF
frequencies in some part of Africa. Operation was similar to operator
assisted MTS (mobile telephone service) but on HF. It was basically a
phone patch hung on an HF base station. We were trying to add
signaling so that users would not have to listen to the channel noise
all day in order to receive a phone call. Our scheme sorta worked on
SSB, but the tones drove those that didn't have muted receivers nuts,
so it was eventually abandoned. I think the system was up until about
1990, when something blew up and the operator couldn't find parts or
something.

Of course, there's always the HF marine radio telephone service, which
still operates on various HF frequencies with real live human
operators. They're all currently using SSB, although that wasn't
always the case. In the 1960's and 70's, almost everyone was using
AM.

I got a great name for Mr Radius's system. Reactionary Radio.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:38:21 -0400, "Dana" wrote:

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html

The FCC does not require that analog service be turned off. Only that
carriers are not required to continue analog service past that date.
A good number of rural areas will probably continue to use Analog cellualr
service for a few years after that.

True. Analog will probably dribble along for quite a while. The only
plans that I've heard or read are Verizon's. They're going to (or
already have) change the PRL (preferred roaming list) to not include
analog roaming. I know a local die hard who was informed in writing
that analog will be "going away" in Feb 2008 and that they will not
renew his contract for analog after that date. I haven't seen the
actual letter so I don't know if there are any details such as the
date they'll pull the plug on him. I had the same issue with Verizon
and a non-GPS enabled cell phone, where they refused to renew the
contract with the old phone. That means that all analog phones might
be gone by the time the current contracts expire, which would a
maximum of 2 years (probably much less).

at&t will probably do the same thing. The only analog systems they
still operate are the 800MHz TDMA systems they inherited from Dobson,
Cell One, and others. You'll probably get a Valentine greeting card
from at&t announcing the demise of analog.

Incidentally, at&t discontinued its CDPD (cellular digital packet
data) service in mid 2004. Verizon did the same a year later. Yet, I
still am getting sync and carrier for CDPD on my Novatel(?) CDPD
modem. As I mentioned in another thread, there are still IMTS tones
on the air. I guess old services never seem to die completely.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:29:35 -0500, DTC
wrote:

That idea was touted and attempted over twenty years ago. Back when
cellphone handsets were better described as concrete blocks instead of bricks.

http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/office/slides/radio-mess.html
The phone with half the buttons red and the rest white, is a G.E.
"brick" phone. Not only did it look like a brick, but it also weighed
about the same as one. Behind it, against the wall is an Audiovox
TCT-100 "Tranportable" phone, another heavy weight. Just to the left
of the Audiovox but halfway covered is the original Nextel handset.

Someone is sure to ask why I have all that garbage. I sometimes give
talks on the history of mobile phones and like to drag in the
antiques. I drew the line on some of the old trunk mounted MTS, IMTS,
and AMPS phones, as they're just too big and ugly to bring to
meetings.

Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:38:21 -0400, "Dana" wrote:

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html

The FCC does not require that analog service be turned off. Only that
carriers are not required to continue analog service past that date.
A good number of rural areas will probably continue to use Analog cellualr
service for a few years after that.

True. Analog will probably dribble along for quite a while. ...

I seriously doubt it. All the carrier people I know are chomping at the
bit to turn it off, as noted in public statements.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:56:57 -0500, wrote in
:

How about just national enforcing Californias proposed Consumer code
for cell phone companies.

Really bad idea. The market works better without government
interference.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:45:00 GMT, wrote in
:

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Radium wrote:

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz. In addition, the following must
also apply:

The audio bandwidth of the phone system is about 3 KHz.

Actually more like 10 KHz.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
DTC hath wroth:
Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

Who said they were gone? Fire up your scanner or service monitor on
the old IMTS frequencies and you'll hear the idle tones or sometimes
idle chatter.

As far as I know, all the Southwestern Bell mobiles were given to local
Motorola Sales and Service (MSS) shops. I never paid attention to the
defunct MTS/IMTS channels, but all the RCC channels went over to paging.

Brings back fond memories of the "RCC wars" (radio common carrier).

In Texas, they were all pretty cooperative with reciprocal roaming. Rates
in the '70s were typically $40 a month which included mobile radio rental
and unlimited minutes and free roaming. Denton Texas with the two
universities had like 300 users in the early/mid '70s. When the rates
jumped from $20 to $50 per month (on *TWO* VHF channels), it dropped to
like fifteen users.

However, you're right. I really miss my Motorola T1234 mobile
telephone and giant Secode control head. It really impressed the
various ladyfriends in college.

The Secode was indeed much easier to program than the Motorola control
head. I used the Secode head on my RCC radio and the Moto on my SWBell
radio. In line with the Jackie Gleason and Michael Todd story of one-up-
man-ship, I had both control heads mounted next to my 4WD shifter on my
trucks. My local RCC would not mute the repeater when dialing 2805, so when
my mobile answered the code, it ack'ed with a burst of 2805...which
canceled out the four second 2805 ringing tail and my horn would only beep,
so I had to disable that feature.

To get access to a busy channel in Dallas, I'd drop into manual mode and
listen to the channels for a conversation about to end, then let go of the
chrome hookswitch arm and slam the roam button and the appropriate channel
button - forcing it to roam in IMTS mode to the only free channel. Of
course I would never whistle off the connect tone of an incoming call meant
for another user and grab the channel when it went back to idle.

I eventually upgraded to the all solid state Motos and smaller control heads.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:29:35 -0500, DTC
wrote in :

Radium wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
:

how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

That idea was touted and attempted over twenty years ago. Back when
cellphone handsets were better described as concrete blocks instead of bricks.

Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

Spectral efficiency be damned as long as you get yours?

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ

On 7/19/07 4:41 PM, in article ,
"John Navas" wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:56:57 -0500, wrote in
:

How about just national enforcing Californias proposed Consumer code
for cell phone companies.

Really bad idea. The market works better without government
interference.

Brilliant stupid canned comment.

California has a government.

The US has a government.

I'd rather we work issues with our elected Federal representatives than have
California start pushing at the state level.

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna John Navas wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:45:00 GMT, wrote in
:

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Radium wrote:

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz. In addition, the following must
also apply:

The audio bandwidth of the phone system is about 3 KHz.

Actually more like 10 KHz.

Where?

Nowhere I've ever been.

--
Jim Pennino

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