On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
:

how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz. In addition, the following must
also apply:

1. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of
at least 16-bit

2. The sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of
the audio must be the same.

Radium hath wroth:

On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html
I won't be sending you a valentine card. You're not my type.
Are you also working on whale oil products and sealing wax?

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz.

Oh, you want music over your cell phone? Of course that means fewer
users per MHz. Very roughly, the current 8Kbits/sec encoding rate,
compared to your 44Kbit/sec, will only handle about 1/5th the number
of users. So, your cell phone bill goes up about 5 times. Of course
you don't mind because you'll have hi-fi oozing out of your phone. You
might want to research variable rate codecs, such as EVRC.

1. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of
at least 16-bit

The encoding resolution is not changed by compression. If you encode
something with 16 bit resolution, and compress it, you still have 16
bit data coming out. It's the data rate or thruput that changes with
compression.

2. The sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of
the audio must be the same.

Not possible. If the rate in and rate out are identical, then there's
no compression happening.

At least you're consistent. You got everything wrong, again.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff,

He typed the message on his Commodore 64 with an Atari floppy drive!



Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Radium hath wroth:

On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...696d6abf90c8ed
13?hl=en&
how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06...ice-to-end-aft
er.html I won't be sending you a valentine card. You're not my type.
Are you also working on whale oil products and sealing wax?

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz.

Oh, you want music over your cell phone? Of course that means fewer
users per MHz. Very roughly, the current 8Kbits/sec encoding rate,
compared to your 44Kbit/sec, will only handle about 1/5th the number
of users. So, your cell phone bill goes up about 5 times. Of course
you don't mind because you'll have hi-fi oozing out of your phone. You
might want to research variable rate codecs, such as EVRC.

1. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of
at least 16-bit

The encoding resolution is not changed by compression. If you encode
something with 16 bit resolution, and compress it, you still have 16
bit data coming out. It's the data rate or thruput that changes with
compression.

2. The sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of
the audio must be the same.

Not possible. If the rate in and rate out are identical, then there's
no compression happening.

At least you're consistent. You got everything wrong, again.

--
-

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
Radium hath wroth:

On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html
I won't be sending you a valentine card. You're not my type.
Are you also working on whale oil products and sealing wax?

The FCC does not require that analog service be turned off. Only that
carriers are not required to continue analog service past that date.
A good number of rural areas will probably continue to use Analog cellualr
service for a few years after that.

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz.

Oh, you want music over your cell phone? Of course that means fewer
users per MHz. Very roughly, the current 8Kbits/sec encoding rate,
compared to your 44Kbit/sec, will only handle about 1/5th the number
of users. So, your cell phone bill goes up about 5 times. Of course
you don't mind because you'll have hi-fi oozing out of your phone. You
might want to research variable rate codecs, such as EVRC.

1. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of
at least 16-bit

The encoding resolution is not changed by compression. If you encode
something with 16 bit resolution, and compress it, you still have 16
bit data coming out. It's the data rate or thruput that changes with
compression.

2. The sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of
the audio must be the same.

Not possible. If the rate in and rate out are identical, then there's
no compression happening.

At least you're consistent. You got everything wrong, again.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:38:21 -0400, "Dana" wrote:

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html

The FCC does not require that analog service be turned off. Only that
carriers are not required to continue analog service past that date.
A good number of rural areas will probably continue to use Analog cellualr
service for a few years after that.

True. Analog will probably dribble along for quite a while. The only
plans that I've heard or read are Verizon's. They're going to (or
already have) change the PRL (preferred roaming list) to not include
analog roaming. I know a local die hard who was informed in writing
that analog will be "going away" in Feb 2008 and that they will not
renew his contract for analog after that date. I haven't seen the
actual letter so I don't know if there are any details such as the
date they'll pull the plug on him. I had the same issue with Verizon
and a non-GPS enabled cell phone, where they refused to renew the
contract with the old phone. That means that all analog phones might
be gone by the time the current contracts expire, which would a
maximum of 2 years (probably much less).

at&t will probably do the same thing. The only analog systems they
still operate are the 800MHz TDMA systems they inherited from Dobson,
Cell One, and others. You'll probably get a Valentine greeting card
from at&t announcing the demise of analog.

Incidentally, at&t discontinued its CDPD (cellular digital packet
data) service in mid 2004. Verizon did the same a year later. Yet, I
still am getting sync and carrier for CDPD on my Novatel(?) CDPD
modem. As I mentioned in another thread, there are still IMTS tones
on the air. I guess old services never seem to die completely.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:38:21 -0400, "Dana" wrote:

Why bother? Analog cell phones are going away on Valentine's Day
2008.
http://dialzero.blogspot.com/2007/06/analog-cellphone-service-to-end-after.html

The FCC does not require that analog service be turned off. Only that
carriers are not required to continue analog service past that date.
A good number of rural areas will probably continue to use Analog cellualr
service for a few years after that.

True. Analog will probably dribble along for quite a while. ...

I seriously doubt it. All the carrier people I know are chomping at the
bit to turn it off, as noted in public statements.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ

Radium wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
:

how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

Digital cell phones should stop using the compression they use and
start using monaural WMA compression with a CBR of 20 kbps or less and
a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz. In addition, the following must
also apply:

1. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of
at least 16-bit

2. The sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of
the audio must be the same.

Darn:
I was just getting used to your purposed long-wave cell phone.
The approximately mile long antennas would drastically cut down on
people trying to drive and talk at the same time, just think how many
lives that could be saved.
Oh well, I just wait for it to appear along with my Matel Hover board
and "Mr Fusion" reactor for my Delorean.
Ken

Radium wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
:

how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

That idea was touted and attempted over twenty years ago. Back when
cellphone handsets were better described as concrete blocks instead of bricks.

Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

DTC hath wroth:

Radium wrote:
On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0c8ed13?hl=en&
how would u like to change the cell phone industry?

Analog cell phones should stop using FM and should start using AM at
whatever practical radio frequencies available.

That idea was touted and attempted over twenty years ago. Back when
cellphone handsets were better described as concrete blocks instead of bricks.

Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

Who said they were gone? Fire up your scanner or service monitor on
the old IMTS frequencies and you'll hear the idle tones or sometimes
idle chatter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMTS_Frequencies
There's still some IMTS phone systems running in "rural" areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Mobile_Telephone_Service
Brings back fond memories of the "RCC wars" (radio common carrier).

However, you're right. I really miss my Motorola T1234 mobile
telephone and giant Secode control head. It really impressed the
various ladyfriends in college.
http://www.privateline.com/PCS/mobilephonepictures.htm
Too bad (for Mr Radium) it was FM.

I did work on an AM/SSB mobile telephone system in about 1974. I
never saw it but as I vaguely recall, it operated on various HF
frequencies in some part of Africa. Operation was similar to operator
assisted MTS (mobile telephone service) but on HF. It was basically a
phone patch hung on an HF base station. We were trying to add
signaling so that users would not have to listen to the channel noise
all day in order to receive a phone call. Our scheme sorta worked on
SSB, but the tones drove those that didn't have muted receivers nuts,
so it was eventually abandoned. I think the system was up until about
1990, when something blew up and the operator couldn't find parts or
something.

Of course, there's always the HF marine radio telephone service, which
still operates on various HF frequencies with real live human
operators. They're all currently using SSB, although that wasn't
always the case. In the 1960's and 70's, almost everyone was using
AM.

I got a great name for Mr Radius's system. Reactionary Radio.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
DTC hath wroth:
Gosh...I miss my 70 watt Micors and darn near crystal clear audio on IMTS
systems with 30 mile range. But that was thirty years ago.

Who said they were gone? Fire up your scanner or service monitor on
the old IMTS frequencies and you'll hear the idle tones or sometimes
idle chatter.

As far as I know, all the Southwestern Bell mobiles were given to local
Motorola Sales and Service (MSS) shops. I never paid attention to the
defunct MTS/IMTS channels, but all the RCC channels went over to paging.

Brings back fond memories of the "RCC wars" (radio common carrier).

In Texas, they were all pretty cooperative with reciprocal roaming. Rates
in the '70s were typically $40 a month which included mobile radio rental
and unlimited minutes and free roaming. Denton Texas with the two
universities had like 300 users in the early/mid '70s. When the rates
jumped from $20 to $50 per month (on *TWO* VHF channels), it dropped to
like fifteen users.

However, you're right. I really miss my Motorola T1234 mobile
telephone and giant Secode control head. It really impressed the
various ladyfriends in college.

The Secode was indeed much easier to program than the Motorola control
head. I used the Secode head on my RCC radio and the Moto on my SWBell
radio. In line with the Jackie Gleason and Michael Todd story of one-up-
man-ship, I had both control heads mounted next to my 4WD shifter on my
trucks. My local RCC would not mute the repeater when dialing 2805, so when
my mobile answered the code, it ack'ed with a burst of 2805...which
canceled out the four second 2805 ringing tail and my horn would only beep,
so I had to disable that feature.

To get access to a busy channel in Dallas, I'd drop into manual mode and
listen to the channels for a conversation about to end, then let go of the
chrome hookswitch arm and slam the roam button and the appropriate channel
button - forcing it to roam in IMTS mode to the only free channel. Of
course I would never whistle off the connect tone of an incoming call meant
for another user and grab the channel when it went back to idle.

I eventually upgraded to the all solid state Motos and smaller control heads.