On Aug 15, 8:02 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff,
with access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and
probably the Western world, and the best he can come up with is
..."Gee, I have this gut feeling". :-(

D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a
result of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they
don't develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on
patrol. Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not
developed a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly
discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if
a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs
nor has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.

D Peter Maus wrote:

And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.

Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with
it. I never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling".
(But the point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and
has NOT had any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).

For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of
real evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on
national TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.

The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the
billions spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to
think we need the politicians to "save" us...

D Peter Maus wrote:

No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....

The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.

Wow! You really have been around the current administration too long.

You are saying to first come up with some vague, half-baked,
superstitious "gut feeling" and -then- try and find and/or "manufacture"
facts to fit.

Actually, no, I didn't say that, Strawman. But nice try. I'm capable
of speaking for myself. But if I ever require a paraphrast, you'll be
the first on my list to call.

What makes you think that Chertoff hasn't waded through hard intel
before he makes his appearance? You honestly think he calls a press
conference to make a hunch? Really...

How it works in government is how it works everywhere else. Some
information comes across someone's path that triggers a gut reaction.
Then they start looking for evidence one way or the other.

You'll notice that the level of alert doesn't remain at 'Orange' or
'Red.' It does drop down to 'Yellow' from time to time. Indicating that
after Chertoff's gut feeling, the hard intel doesn't support escalation.

I don't see the problem.

It's simply unrealistic, in law enforcement or security, to wait
until all possible evidence and intel has been evaluated to take an action.

History has proven that to be an unreliable strategy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

RHF wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:02 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff,
with access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and
probably the Western world, and the best he can come up with is
..."Gee, I have this gut feeling". :-(
D Peter Maus wrote:
Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a
result of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they
don't develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on
patrol. Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not
developed a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly
discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if
a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.
Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs
nor has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.
D Peter Maus wrote:
And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?
You're more cynical than I thought.
Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with
it. I never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling".
(But the point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and
has NOT had any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).
For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of
real evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on
national TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.
The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the
billions spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to
think we need the politicians to "save" us...
D Peter Maus wrote:
No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....
The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.
Wow! You really have been around the current administration too long.
You are saying to first come up with some vague, half-baked,
superstitious "gut feeling" and -then- try and find and/or "manufacture"
facts to fit.
Actually, no, I didn't say that, Strawman. But nice try. I'm capable
of speaking for myself. But if I ever require a paraphrast, you'll be
the first on my list to call.

What makes you think that Chertoff hasn't waded through hard intel
before he makes his appearance? You honestly think he calls a press
conference to make a hunch? Really...

How it works in government is how it works everywhere else. Some
information comes across someone's path that triggers a gut reaction.
Then they start looking for evidence one way or the other.

You'll notice that the level of alert doesn't remain at 'Orange' or
'Red.' It does drop down to 'Yellow' from time to time. Indicating that
after Chertoff's gut feeling, the hard intel doesn't support escalation.

I don't see the problem.

It's simply unrealistic, in law enforcement or security, to wait
until all possible evidence and intel has been evaluated to take an action.

History has proven that to be an unreliable strategy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF
.
.
. .


Well, yeah..and that's the other side of this....to be effective
there's so much that Chertoff simply cannot reveal.

What he says on camera fills a need to feed The Beast. It's not going
to be detailed or an accurate representation of processes.

RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?





mike

m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?


The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.

D Peter Maus wrote:
m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?


The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.



I see..no connection at all to the Bush people...I was mistaken.

=========================================
"Richard Armitage, the current Deputy Defense Secretary, was another
Iran-Contra player in Unocal's employ. A former Navy SEAL, covert
operative in Laos, director with the Carlyle Group, Armitage is
allegedly deeply linked to terrorist and criminal networks in the Middle
East, and the new independent states of the former Soviet Union
(Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrghistan). Armitage was no stranger to
pipelines. As a member of the Burma/Myanmar Forum, a group that received
major funding from Unocal, Armitage was implicated in a lawsuit filed by
Burmese villagers who suffered human rights abuses during the
construction of a Unocal pipeline. (Halliburton, under Dick Cheney,
performed contract work on the same Burmese project.)"

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex...cheneyasia.htm
==========================================

m II wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?

The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.



I see..no connection at all to the Bush people...I was mistaken.



=========================================
"Richard Armitage, the current Deputy Defense Secretary, was another
Iran-Contra player in Unocal's employ. A former Navy SEAL, covert
operative in Laos, director with the Carlyle Group, Armitage is
allegedly deeply linked to terrorist and criminal networks in the Middle
East, and the new independent states of the former Soviet Union
(Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrghistan). Armitage was no stranger to
pipelines. As a member of the Burma/Myanmar Forum, a group that received
major funding from Unocal, Armitage was implicated in a lawsuit filed by
Burmese villagers who suffered human rights abuses during the
construction of a Unocal pipeline. (Halliburton, under Dick Cheney,
performed contract work on the same Burmese project.)"

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex...cheneyasia.htm
==========================================


Now look at his record. He worked for Powell, no fan of Bush.
Armitage, himself was no fan of Bush and complained bitterly about both
the war, and his international policies. And his first call when Novak
published the piece was to Powell. Not to Bush, not to Cheney.

Armitage revealed this himself.



You're very good at making your feelings known about the
Administration, but this event, specifically, the outing of Valerie
Plame was not an administration action. It wasn't sanctioned by the
Administration. It was a slip made, actually some years before Novak
published the article, By Richard Armitage. Not by the Administration.

Armitage, outing Valerie Plame, was not acting on behalf of the
Administration, by his own admission.

Any more than you are acting on behalf of your employer in your
postings to USENet.

On Aug 15, 7:02 pm, m II wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?

The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.

I see..no connection at all to the Bush people...I was mistaken.

=========================================
"Richard Armitage, the current Deputy Defense Secretary, was another
Iran-Contra player in Unocal's employ. A former Navy SEAL, covert
operative in Laos, director with the Carlyle Group, Armitage is
allegedly deeply linked to terrorist and criminal networks in the Middle
East, and the new independent states of the former Soviet Union
(Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrghistan). Armitage was no stranger to
pipelines. As a member of the Burma/Myanmar Forum, a group that received
major funding from Unocal, Armitage was implicated in a lawsuit filed by
Burmese villagers who suffered human rights abuses during the
construction of a Unocal pipeline. (Halliburton, under Dick Cheney,
performed contract work on the same Burmese project.)"

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex...cheneyasia.htm
==========================================- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mike (M II) -Warning- Your Brain Is Smoking
-cause- You Have Exceeded Your Armitage ! ) ~ RHF

On Aug 15, 6:37 pm, m II wrote:
RHF wrote:
Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?

mike

Mike (M II) - 'Valerie' I Say Unto You . . . . . . . . . .

I'm a dumbass Canuck II wrote:

RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?

Damn, you certainly are an ignorant little Canuck.