David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:

The main reason advertisers do not target 55+ customers is that the
return on investment is low; it takes so much more advertising to
convince older consumers that the cost of the sale is less than the
profit on the sale.

You think that may have something to do with the way the sale is
presented?

I have to cut you off right here. Radio stations don't present to agency
clients. They present to media buyers at ad agencies, based on the
specifications those agencies have for each buy. The amount per market for
radio, the number of stations, the demos, etc., were determined way before
the call for rates gets out, and generaly stations don't even know a
campaign is being prepared until it reaches the buying stage.


Yes, I know that. I've been around, David. But I also know that
the people inside each organization talk to each other. And somewhere,
there has to be one button you can push to make someone listen to a new
idea.

Especially, at your level.

I'm not talking about doing things the way they've always been
done. And for the most part, here, that's what you're trying to sell
us....the idea that institutionalized interference is something to be
embraced because it heralds a new future.

Ok....if you can take that message outside of normal channels to
us, then you can take a new sales pitch to the agencies outside of
normal channels to them.

Don't tell me it can't be done. I've cut too many wormholes in my
career to not know better.

Besides, it's the nature of creativity to do, present, execute, or
discuss something that's not been seen or done before.

And you know this.

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...

Ok....if you can take that message outside of normal channels to us,
then you can take a new sales pitch to the agencies outside of normal
channels to them.

Stations with older demos have been attempting this for years... decades. If
an agency has an order from the client to seek women 25-44, there is no way
they are going to buy a station that is mostly 45-64 or 55+. The agency has
nothing to gain by switching a "right" station on a buy for a wrong one. All
they do is endanger the account relationship when the analysis of deliverd
gross ratings points against the campaign target falls short.

Agencies don't determine demos in most cases. The client does. The age range
the client wants is part of developing the creative concept, so it will
appeal to the consumers the advertiser wants to reach. Once the creative is
approved, and often tested against the target demo, media budgets are
allocated and the buy specs are given to station reps so they can quote
against the cost per point goals for each market.

Nowhere does a radio station have an opportunity to change the creative, the
demo or the appropriate media.

Don't tell me it can't be done. I've cut too many wormholes in my
career to not know better.

Stations have tried for years and decades as I have mentioned. Occasionally,
one will get a little spillage money when the buyers get better than
anticipated rates... but they still have to deliver, manybe not as
efficiently, the target demo to some extent

Besides, it's the nature of creativity to do, present, execute, or
discuss something that's not been seen or done before.

The idea of a 55+ radio station trying to get P&G to change product design,
packaging and marketing so they can get on a buy is actually somewhat
humorous.

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

How does 79.084 dBu compares to 9 mV/m? What is this dBu term? Please
explain what this means other than it being some line on a map. What
does this measurement mean for my radio reception?

I have no idea what it means for your radio reception.

The equivalent, by the way, comes from the handy conversion calculators the
FCC has on its website. Most of us in radio use mV/m for Am and dBu for FM
to plot contours.... and that is the way the FCC accepts applications.
Jeeze, I even cited a sample FCC filing map showing this.

For the average listener, the precise location of contours is irrelevant.
Either they get a station "well" or they don't. It's been proven with
boatloads of data that AM listeners are seldom found beyond the 10 mV/M
calculated contour of a station and beyond the 64 dBu contour for an FM.
when the signal is weaker than that, it appears that listeners don't find
listening to be pleasurable so they don't use stations with weaker signals.

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...

Ok....if you can take that message outside of normal channels to us,
then you can take a new sales pitch to the agencies outside of normal
channels to them.

Stations with older demos have been attempting this for years... decades. If
an agency has an order from the client to seek women 25-44, there is no way
they are going to buy a station that is mostly 45-64 or 55+. The agency has
nothing to gain by switching a "right" station on a buy for a wrong one. All
they do is endanger the account relationship when the analysis of deliverd
gross ratings points against the campaign target falls short.

Agencies don't determine demos in most cases. The client does. The age range
the client wants is part of developing the creative concept, so it will
appeal to the consumers the advertiser wants to reach. Once the creative is
approved, and often tested against the target demo, media budgets are
allocated and the buy specs are given to station reps so they can quote
against the cost per point goals for each market.

Nowhere does a radio station have an opportunity to change the creative, the
demo or the appropriate media.



Every station I've ever worked for has a local sales department.

Start there. Hands on. Direct contact with a client. All it
takes is one success.


Don't tell me it can't be done. I've cut too many wormholes in my
career to not know better.

Stations have tried for years and decades as I have mentioned. Occasionally,
one will get a little spillage money when the buyers get better than
anticipated rates... but they still have to deliver, manybe not as
efficiently, the target demo to some extent

Besides, it's the nature of creativity to do, present, execute, or
discuss something that's not been seen or done before.

The idea of a 55+ radio station trying to get P&G to change product design,
packaging and marketing so they can get on a buy is actually somewhat
humorous.


Yes, it is. That's why I didn't suggest it. I suggested
changing the pitch. Not the product.

C'mon, David. You're smarter than that.

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


dxAce wrote:

dxAce wrote:

David "I can't help but pose as 'Eduardo' because I have no real grip
on
reality", wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Weren't you in Traverse City when you'd already claimed to be
"living" in
Mexico?

No, that was a summer job at WCCW as board op for the Spanish show
from
about 1960 to 1962.

Uh-Huh.

David Eduardo wrote: Hell, also not mentioned was
working all summer at WFAB in
Miami in, I think, 1961. It was the sister station of where I
worked in Cleveland,
and I wanted to be there as it was a Spanish language
station! I also worked
summer of '59 and '60 if I remember the years at WCCW
in Traverse City, ...

Also amazing, as I've pointed out many times before, is that just around
the same
time you claimed to be in South America, miraculously, in a discussion
about John
F. Kennedy's assasination, you claimed to be working at a radio station in
the USA
on November 22, 1963.

You really need to improve your reading skills. In the first part of '63, I
was in Mexico and then wandered about Central America and Colombia. I was
back at WCUY briefly in late 1963, and then went to Guatemala briefly and
then to Ecuador. If you follow the timeline, it's relatively simple.

Your "timeline" doesn't work, as it's full of holes AND lies.

dxAce wrote:

David "I lie my ass off whilst posing as 'Eduardo'", wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


No, that was a summer job at WCCW as board op for the Spanish show from
about 1960 to 1962.

Uh-Huh.

David Eduardo wrote: Hell, also not mentioned was
working all summer at WFAB in
Miami in, I think, 1961

I never worked at WFAB.

Then why did you state that you did?

Moron.

In researching the record I find that you've variously stated that you "visited"
WFAB and that you "worked" at WFAB for the summer.

So which is it? How many stations have you "visited" and have later claimed to
have "worked" at?

Inquiring minds want to get into the head of a pathological liar to see just what
makes you tick.

dxAce wrote:

dxAce wrote:

David "I lie my ass off whilst posing as 'Eduardo'", wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


No, that was a summer job at WCCW as board op for the Spanish show from
about 1960 to 1962.

Uh-Huh.

David Eduardo wrote: Hell, also not mentioned was
working all summer at WFAB in
Miami in, I think, 1961

I never worked at WFAB.

Then why did you state that you did?

Moron.

In researching the record I find that you've variously stated that you "visited"
WFAB and that you "worked" at WFAB for the summer.

So which is it? How many stations have you "visited" and have later claimed to
have "worked" at?

Or "owned" for that matter?

David Eduardo wrote:
"K Isham" wrote in message news:46dfc84a@kcnews01...
I remember reading the Arizona Daily Star newspaper article when KTKT
expressing surprise that it had reached #1 again in 1979, when most of the
country were already listening to FM. Well that is old news.

In fact, by 1980, KTKT was down to about 10th in the market and falling, due
to competiton form FM Top 40 stations. By the time it changed format, it was
hardly billing anything.

For example when I was listening to the oldies station, I believe
Billboard stated that there was over a thousand #1 songs in the decade of
the sixties alone, but they recycle just about fifty songs total for the
whole day. 1950's thru the early 80's. I realize that the selection is
made by market research, but don't you relies that most people can't
remember the title, artist etc, when you ask people to fill out the
survey.

"People" don't fill out a survey. They listen to extracts of each song and
score them based on how much they would like to hear them on the radio
today.

Finally, as a radio marketing executive, it should be your job to convince
the advertisers that life doesn't stop at age 55, and there can still be
money to be made in selling to our aging population.

These decisions are made by the clients of agency accounts, based on
hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in consumer research and
through which the client determines the prime sales demographics for their
goods and services and tells the ad agency who to advertise to. Radio
stations do not visit ad agency clients.

The main reason advertisers do not target 55+ customers is that the return
on investment is low; it takes so much more advertising to convince older
consumers that the cost of the sale is less than the profit on the sale.

Old people still buy cars, appliances, gas, insurance etc. Not just the
crap that the info-mericails try to sell now. You should take the leads in
changing the mind set, that people stop changing at 55+ and more
importantly, the stop buying at 55+.

As I said, these decisions on agency accounts are set by the client of the
agency, and no medium has access to the client to "get on the buy" when the
client has made a highly researched marketing decision.


FM stations


Mr Eduardo:

I noticed you ignored my rant about my visit to Radio Shack to demo a
"HD" radio.
It seems the HD is going go the way of the "New Coke" of the 80's if you
cannot get a affordable decent receiver. As a marketing man, I'm sure
you remember when Coke decided to change their formula because their
survey people claimed that the youth of America perfected the taste of
Pepsi over Coke and stopped product of the original formula. Well, I
remember the great sales at the stores, as they attempted to unload the
unsold "New Coke." I will admit that that I read a couple years ago
that "New Coke" sell well as a fountain drink at some trendy rester
aunts, but Old Coke is the leader at the supermarket, where most of the
profit is for them.
While HD may be improved, if you can't receive it while jogging, at work
or in the car where most of the people listen, how are you going to sell
it? I have HDTV and am very satisfied, but I can see and here the
difference in quality, as well as the extra offerings on most of the
channels here in town with my old antenna much better than the analog
reception. While at the Radio Shack with their professionally installed
antenna, the HD radio signal did not lock on. Now I have at $300 Ten
Tec 320D receiver and the DRM decoder software plus Open source "Dream"
software, and with its own whip antenna, I could receive "Radio New
Zealand" some 6000 miles distant from my location with very few
drop-outs, and even better reception than there more powerful analog
signal, when I hooked it to my 25 foot homemade inverted-vee. The nice
part about that system, I didn't have to junk my radios, just to receive
it. My JRC535D was able to decode it also with out modification.
Once, when European signals where coming in my location, I picked up the
DRM signal direct from Germany, and saw how a Digital signal could be
set up, They had to voice channels simultaneously plus a web page that I
was briefly able to decode.
Maybe you could interest the power that be, to utilize the HD signal to
download web - pages such as detours, traffic jams that would be
pertinent to the user, plus you could set it up for the user to
interface with the computer for products etc, not just a replay of the
morning drive time show. This will not happen unless your industry can
come up with a more flexible system.
Ken I

K Isham wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"K Isham" wrote in message news:46dfc84a@kcnews01...
I remember reading the Arizona Daily Star newspaper article when KTKT
expressing surprise that it had reached #1 again in 1979, when most of the
country were already listening to FM. Well that is old news.

In fact, by 1980, KTKT was down to about 10th in the market and falling, due
to competiton form FM Top 40 stations. By the time it changed format, it was
hardly billing anything.

For example when I was listening to the oldies station, I believe
Billboard stated that there was over a thousand #1 songs in the decade of
the sixties alone, but they recycle just about fifty songs total for the
whole day. 1950's thru the early 80's. I realize that the selection is
made by market research, but don't you relies that most people can't
remember the title, artist etc, when you ask people to fill out the
survey.

"People" don't fill out a survey. They listen to extracts of each song and
score them based on how much they would like to hear them on the radio
today.

Finally, as a radio marketing executive, it should be your job to convince
the advertisers that life doesn't stop at age 55, and there can still be
money to be made in selling to our aging population.

These decisions are made by the clients of agency accounts, based on
hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in consumer research and
through which the client determines the prime sales demographics for their
goods and services and tells the ad agency who to advertise to. Radio
stations do not visit ad agency clients.

The main reason advertisers do not target 55+ customers is that the return
on investment is low; it takes so much more advertising to convince older
consumers that the cost of the sale is less than the profit on the sale.

Old people still buy cars, appliances, gas, insurance etc. Not just the
crap that the info-mericails try to sell now. You should take the leads in
changing the mind set, that people stop changing at 55+ and more
importantly, the stop buying at 55+.

As I said, these decisions on agency accounts are set by the client of the
agency, and no medium has access to the client to "get on the buy" when the
client has made a highly researched marketing decision.


FM stations


Mr Eduardo:

I noticed you ignored my rant about my visit to Radio Shack to demo a
"HD" radio.
It seems the HD is going go the way of the "New Coke" of the 80's if you
cannot get a affordable decent receiver. As a marketing man, I'm sure
you remember when Coke decided to change their formula because their
survey people claimed that the youth of America perfected the taste of
Pepsi over Coke and stopped product of the original formula. Well, I
remember the great sales at the stores, as they attempted to unload the
unsold "New Coke." I will admit that that I read a couple years ago
that "New Coke" sell well as a fountain drink at some trendy rester
aunts, but Old Coke is the leader at the supermarket, where most of the
profit is for them.
While HD may be improved, if you can't receive it while jogging, at work
or in the car where most of the people listen, how are you going to sell
it? I have HDTV and am very satisfied, but I can see and here the
difference in quality, as well as the extra offerings on most of the
channels here in town with my old antenna much better than the analog
reception. While at the Radio Shack with their professionally installed
antenna, the HD radio signal did not lock on. Now I have at $300 Ten
Tec 320D receiver and the DRM decoder software plus Open source "Dream"
software, and with its own whip antenna, I could receive "Radio New
Zealand" some 6000 miles distant from my location with very few
drop-outs, and even better reception than there more powerful analog
signal, when I hooked it to my 25 foot homemade inverted-vee. The nice
part about that system, I didn't have to junk my radios, just to receive
it. My JRC535D was able to decode it also with out modification.
Once, when European signals where coming in my location, I picked up the
DRM signal direct from Germany, and saw how a Digital signal could be
set up, They had to voice channels simultaneously plus a web page that I
was briefly able to decode.
Maybe you could interest the power that be, to utilize the HD signal to
download web - pages such as detours, traffic jams that would be
pertinent to the user, plus you could set it up for the user to
interface with the computer for products etc, not just a replay of the
morning drive time show. This will not happen unless your industry can
come up with a more flexible system.

Don't trust Mr. Gleason as he's been a known pathological liar for at least 50
years.

On Sep 6, 11:55 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...

Ok....if you can take that message outside of normal channels to us,
then you can take a new sales pitch to the agencies outside of normal
channels to them.

Stations with older demos have been attempting this for years... decades. If
an agency has an order from the client to seek women 25-44, there is no way
they are going to buy a station that is mostly 45-64 or 55+. The agency has
nothing to gain by switching a "right" station on a buy for a wrong one. All
they do is endanger the account relationship when the analysis of deliverd
gross ratings points against the campaign target falls short.

Agencies don't determine demos in most cases. The client does. The age range
the client wants is part of developing the creative concept, so it will
appeal to the consumers the advertiser wants to reach. Once the creative is
approved, and often tested against the target demo, media budgets are
allocated and the buy specs are given to station reps so they can quote
against the cost per point goals for each market.

Nowhere does a radio station have an opportunity to change the creative, the
demo or the appropriate media.



Don't tell me it can't be done. I've cut too many wormholes in my
career to not know better.

Stations have tried for years and decades as I have mentioned. Occasionally,
one will get a little spillage money when the buyers get better than
anticipated rates... but they still have to deliver, manybe not as
efficiently, the target demo to some extent

Besides, it's the nature of creativity to do, present, execute, or
discuss something that's not been seen or done before.

The idea of a 55+ radio station trying to get P&G to change product design,
packaging and marketing so they can get on a buy is actually somewhat
humorous.

Like it or not, you'll have an exclusively 55+ audience if you don't
get off your ass and do something. You mean the colloidal silver
hasn't helped?