Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.

I think what happened was that they pretty much sold one to everybody
who wanted one over the series' extremely long run.

As I recall it Drakes explanation of the discontinuation it wasn't so much the
lack of demand but other issues.

I'll have to contact Bill Frost and ask him about that.

I'll bet I'm right about the cost of producing the R8B.

As I recall it, you are. It wasn't so much an issue of demand it was something to do
with the availability of components currently being used, re-design costs because of
that unavailability, and just the overall cost of building them.

The market was there, just witness the still high price an R8B brings.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Sep 30, 3:04 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

ups.com...



Since most 'folks' here are over 50 or around 50 :

No Body Here Listens To You - d'Eduardo ! ~ RHF

You just pointed out something that the engineer who gave a radio club a
tour a few years ago mentioned.... there are no young DXers any more.

That's right. They're all listening to internet radio now.


I'm sure some of it is that there is no appeal of AM at all to young people,
whether they be teens or young adults, so they would not discover AM skip in
any case, But there has to be more to this than just what is on the radio.

A parallel would be the number of people who in the mid to late 80's into
the 90's built their own computers. There were parts places all over,
magazines filled with ads for cases and fans.... now there is nearly
nothing.

Kinda like people who who are wanting to stick with out-of-date
broadcast technologies, like IBOC.

Yeah. That technology is older than I am.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article om,
SFTV_troy wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon"

I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic of your argument. Try again.


Let's say in Anytown that there are 24 formats that could get over about a 1
share.... in other words, the percentage of listening that would get
advertisers results based on enough listeners hearing the message. But
Anytown has only 12 FM signals that do a decent job of covering the market.
So there are 12 viable formats that are not being done in Anytown, formats
that would be salable, listenable and useful.

So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on


Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth
repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels:
- AOR
- Classic Rock
- Indie Rock

.....thus giving listeners more options, more variety, more music.
It's similar to what's been happening to Cable TV the last ten years,
slowly but surely expanding from ~50 channels to ~200 channels. (And
profiting.)

Pretty clueless of you to compare cable to radio broadcasting.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
craigm wrote:

SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.



Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?

You can go satellite with high bit rates. Main downside is high ping
time but that is usually only an issue with on line gaming.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Sep 30, 9:53 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Sep 29, 3:31 pm, SFTV_troy wrote:
wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:

With digital the FM band would effectively triple or even quadruple
the number of channels on the dial. (Alternatively Classical FM
stations could boost the sound from 2 channel stereo to 5.1
surround.)

Do you understand the consequences of what
you propose? Apparently you do not.

- No, because I can not read your mind.
- Please explain the consequences.


- - That's An Evasive Answer - Please Answer The Question.

- Ahhh, you're taking the "arrogant position"
- where you presume, "Troy is a ****ing idiot"

WHAT ME ARROGANT ?

Actually I 'Presume' You Are Very Intelligent
-or- At least I Did . . .

- and "I'm smarter than Troy", therefore "I'll talk
- down to him like he's a worthless worm."

"That's An Evasive Answer - Please Answer The Question."

Is a Straight In-Your-Face Statement
{ One-to-One / Eyeball-to-Eyeball }

- How rude and unfriendly.

It is Rude and Unfriendly to Ask you to actually
Listen to the AM/MW Radio Band and the very
Negative Effect that IBOC has had on It : Prior
to posting your High Praises of "HD" Radio.

- - Turn in an Analog AM/MW Radio and tune every 10 kHz
- - from 530 kHz to 1710 kHz and Listen to what you hear
- - on each and every 10 kHz Radio Station Channel :
- - That Buzz Noise Hash that was not

- Yes I am aware of that problem.

Your 'awareness' has clearly not resulted in "Understanding".

- (Although I'm still able to hear
- Radio Disney just fine on the AM.)

One Radio Station out of "How Many"
prior to IBOC ? ? ?

- The solution is simple for someone like yourself
- who has an internet connection:

- call letters.com - listen online.

Listening 'On-Line' is not Free Over-the-Air Radio [.]

~ RHF

In article ,
craigm wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:


"

Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming
audio for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the
lag doesn't allow for enough FEC... )


Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

You make requests or upload files / data over the phone line. The
download path to you is the satellite dish. If you are surfing the net
your requests and upstream data are small and the downloads such as
movie trailers, video, and streaming media are high bit rate.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Sep 30, 6:23 pm, dxAce wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy"

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Streaming is not DX. ...

Yes it is.

No, it's not. Get a clue little boy.


(1) Well grandpa, I do have a clue; you're just being narrow-minded
to presume only AM is DX. Other media can also be DX too.

(2) Even if it doesn't fit your definition of DX'ing (via AM), why
does it matter? When you listen over the internet, you're still
hearing the exact-same program.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

You have a mistaken impression of radio audience measurement.

Snip

You misrepresent the facts to support your arguments as needed. You tell
me I don't hear the stations I listen to because they are so weak as to
be DX and nobody would spend time listening to them. You are full of it.

You are, as I mentioned previously, the kind of listener radio stations are
hard put to serve. You mentioned already that you are not satisfied with
your local stations (and your local stations are those licensed to Ventura
County) and prefer to listen to ones from locations at some distance.

Radio sales and programming are focused on the local radio market. Even the
LA stations, some of which get listening by Ventura County residents, don't
have an interest in residents in your county as, simply put, there is no
money to be made off such listening. Your local stations don't seem to serve
you, and the more distant ones do not care to serve you as there is no gain.
You are one of a tiny percentage of bona fide radio listeners that simply
can't be satisfied... in Ventura, probably the econommics of a small, low
revenue market are the determining factor... so to broadcasting, you are
"unservable."

You find listenable stations that the average person neither knows exists or
can not pick up well. Most DXers have a bit more tolerance for noise,
hisses, buzzes and static than the average listener... who today uses CDs or
iPod digital files as the standard; AM as a band can not satisfy the
listener expectations of the last two generations.

You equate being able to pick up a station with being able to listen to it.
These are not the same things, and you should understand that the normal
listener to radio has a higher standard of reception than you do. For
example, 780 in Reno is not 100% every night; most listeners would never
return after the first time they hear nose, static, fading or interference.

And you equate listenablity to receivability. The fact is that listenership
of AM radio is at its lowest at night, likely due to, first, the greater use
of TV by the AM 45+ listener core and, second, by the fact that nearly every
AM in the US has less coverage at night than in the daytime, so choices are
reduced.

Countless studies have been made over the years of where a station gets its
audience. The purpose is to not waste money marketing and promoting where
there is no potential. For AMs, where we can identify at home and at work
listening by ZIP code (and that is 70% of listening) nearly all the
listening to any particular station takes place inside a very strong signal
contour. Most radio stations do their promotion in what we call Hot Zips, or
areas where we get lots of listening. All of these are inside, to use LA as
an example, the 70 dbu for FM and the 10 mvm for AM. And it's the same for
our competitors.

The average radio listener does not listen to weaker signals. They
definitely do not listen to noisy ones.

Add to that the fact that nearly all AM listeners are over 45, and the
majority over 55 and you have, as I said, two generations of Americans who
don't use AM much or at all.

You don't seem to know what reception on the west coast is like so
either you don't listen to AM at all or you don't live on the west
coast. Which is it?

I know what reception is like for DX, but that is irrelevant to a discussion
of why a decision was made to implement HD and then extend its use to nights
on AM. That decision is based on how radio is used as much as on the
technical issues.

My DX interest is stations from Mexico, and, to some extent, Central
America. I really have no interest in domestic DX and do what I can to null
those stations. Ask about when you can get La Voz de Centroamerica in SPS,
Honduras, and that I can tell you. When is XEW silent so the "hidden relay"
can be heard? The difference is that I know when I am DXing and when I am
listening for content.... something the average listener is really clear
about.

How many times do I have to post I'm not a DX'er? Oh, that's right you
don't read or listen to people do you.

If KOH is not coming in well I don't listen. I try again the next night
and if reception is good, and it usually is, then I stay tuned in.
That's going to happen a lot less now that I have HD hiss in the
background all the time. Now I'll be listening to KOH very infrequently
to never because I'm not going to listen to that bacon frying sound in
the background. It's very annoying.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article . com,
SFTV_troy wrote:

RHF wrote:

I want to see FM upgraded with three to four times more programs to
choose from.

SFTV_troy are you on d'Eduardo's Pay Roll ?
-or- Work for any of the Companies that Employ Him ?
-or- Work for a Radio Station using his Programming ?


Nope. I'm an electrical engineer who designs computer boards and
circuits.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than your
posts indicate.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
craigm wrote:

Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

You make requests or upload files / data over the phone line. The
download path to you is the satellite dish. If you are surfing the net
your requests and upstream data are small and the downloads such as
movie trailers, video, and streaming media are high bit rate.


.... and ...

SFTV_troy wrote:


Computers operate in two directions during internet access. Typically
the phone line or DSL or cable line flows both down & up across the
same wire, but not satellite:

DOWN - from the satellite
UP - via the phone line

So the down channel is broadband, while the up channel is narrowband.
The thing Brenda forgot is that virtually all of these AM websites are
optimized for phone line usage. I don't need broadband to DX to
California or the UK or Australia via my 56K modem.


Well, Wildblue and Hughesnet are the two major providers of satellite access
in the US and they both use two way satellite connections. They do not use
the phone.

Both offer higher upload speeds than a conventional phone line can provide.

Makes one wonder what else you don't understand.