In article ,
says...



"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 30, 5:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

Bob Orban, on the NRSC committee, found that consumer radios almost
without
exception, rolled off by at least 10 db by 4.2 kHz, and passed
practically
nothing over 5 kHz.

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.


The document was linked from one of Mr. Orban's posts on this ng, and is
searchable by Google.

Go to http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click "AM Bandwidth Study." See
Figure 1 for the results. Note that this graph assumes NRSC preemphasis at
the signal generator. (Footnote 3)

This was the work of an NRSC working group that included me and many other
broadcast engineers.

Bob Orban

In article telamon_spamshield-
,
lid says...


In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
...

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.

Bob didn't test all the different model radios.


He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing
you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term
Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio
processing.

Yep, that where you got stuck somehow.

Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again.

Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Looking good.

This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one
member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click
"AM Bandwidth Study."

Telamon
Ventura, California

By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying
that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at
least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what
evidence you have that the study was flawed.

Bob Orban

In article .com,
says...



Steven wrote:

HD/IBOC does not employ AAC, although an earlier
version may have IIRC. It uses something called PAC(?)


You have it backwards. It used to be PAC, derived from MP3.

Early testing showed it didn't work very well, so the codec was
switched to MPEG4 AAC+SBR.

No, it wasn't. The codec was changed to something iBiquity calls "HDC."
It is known to use the Coding Technologies' Spectral Band Replication
technology (as does MPEG HE-AAC) but its technical details are otherwise
held secret by iBiquity. This secrecy has caused considerable
controversy in the broadcast industry.

Bob Orban

In article . com,
says...


David Eduardo wrote:
wrote in message



There are millions of obsolete televisions which will stop working in
just over a year. Does it look like the advertisers care?
They won't care about obsolete radios either.


Radio stations are not ready to go all digital, and probably will not be
for
8 to 10 years.... if ever.



Both the UK and Germany have "tentatively" set 2015 as the shut-down
for FM. (They expect DAB to fill that role.) I figure the U.S.
transition will require a similar time period of fifteen years, so
sometime around 2020 will be the end of analog.

Although, I'd like to see AM die as early as 2010 since so few people
listen to it. Just make it pure digital, 10 kHz per channel.

FM can continue until 2020 (it has no interference problems).

FM can continue forever because, unlike the digital television transition in
the US, HD Radio required no new spectrum and there is no proposal to auction
off any of the current FM band (88-108 MHz in the US). I know of no serious
broadcaster who claims to have any real idea of when analog FM might be shut
down.

If this ever occurs, it will probably be because other transmission channels
finally provide a cheaper pipe to the listener and that pipe reaches enough
listeners to make the loss of analog-only listeners inconsequential. FM in the
US tends to use high powered transmitters with concurrent large electric
bills. Digital transmission can get equivalent reach with much lower power --
power efficiency is probably close to 100x in favor of state of the art
digital coding. Meanwhile, the cost of electricity is likely to continue to
increase, at least in the medium term. (If the world ever gets practical
fusion reactors, that trend could of course change :-).

Bob Orban

In article ,
Robert Orban wrote:

In article telamon_spamshield-
,
lid says...


In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
...

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.

Bob didn't test all the different model radios.


He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing
you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term
Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio
processing.

Yep, that where you got stuck somehow.

Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again.

Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Looking good.

This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one
member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click
"AM Bandwidth Study."

Telamon
Ventura, California

By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying
that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at
least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what
evidence you have that the study was flawed.

The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading
comprehension. The handle is Telamon.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Oct 4, 10:45 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
Robert Orban wrote:





In article telamon_spamshield-
,
says...

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
...

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.

Bob didn't test all the different model radios.

He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing
you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term
Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio
processing.

Yep, that where you got stuck somehow.

Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again.

Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Looking good.

This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one
member) was done very carefully. Seehttp://www.nrscstandards.org/and click
"AM Bandwidth Study."

Telamon
Ventura, California

By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying
that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at
least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what
evidence you have that the study was flawed.

The only suggestion I have for you Mr. Orban is to work on your reading
comprehension. The handle is Telamon.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now be nice Telamon,

Mister Orban has posted under his own name
and has asked you to reply to him : in kind.

FWIW - Robert {Bob} Orban
* A Short History of Transmission Audio Processing in the United
States
-by- Robert Orban, San Francisco, CA
http://www.bext.com/histproc.htm
http://www.261.gr/roberthistory.html
* Optimod "Ask Bob" - Orban/CRL Systems, Inc.
http://www.orban.com/support/orban/askbob/
http://www.261.gr/robert.html
* Orban Audio Codec - "Opticodec Line"
http://www.orban.com/products/codec/

it's nice to be nice ! RHF

Robert Orban writes:

In article telamon_spamshield-
,
lid says...


In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
...

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.

Bob didn't test all the different model radios.


He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm guessing
you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term
Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio
processing.

Yep, that where you got stuck somehow.

Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again.

Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Looking good.

This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only one
member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and click
"AM Bandwidth Study."

Telamon
Ventura, California

By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying
that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at
least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what
evidence you have that the study was flawed.

Bob Orban

Amen! Excellent point, Bob.
--
% Randy Yates % "...the answer lies within your soul
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % 'cause no one knows which side
%%% 919-577-9882 % the coin will fall."
%%%% % 'Big Wheels', *Out of the Blue*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

In article , Randy Yates
wrote:

Robert Orban writes:

In article telamon_spamshield-
,
lid says...


In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
...

That's funny, I just asked Bob if he 'found' this and he said no way,
that you're basically just making **** up off the top of your head.

Bob didn't test all the different model radios.


He tested enough for a reliable sample of what Americans use. I'm
guessing
you don't know who Bob Orban is, so you might google him and the term
Optimod or NRSC to learn a little bit about the man who reinvented audio
processing.

Yep, that where you got stuck somehow.

Reality = Take some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Oops! It's not quite what you wanted. Try again.

Reality = Makeup some samples + apply statistics + shake vigorously

Looking good.

This study, which was done under auspices of the NRSC (of which I am only
one
member) was done very carefully. See http://www.nrscstandards.org/ and
click
"AM Bandwidth Study."

Telamon
Ventura, California

By the way, "Telemon," to whom am I actually speaking? If you are implying
that the above referenced study was corrupt, I would hope that you would at
least back up your accusation by letting us know your real name and what
evidence you have that the study was flawed.

Bob Orban

Amen! Excellent point, Bob.

Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a
known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that
excellence in posting.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon writes:
[...]
In article , Randy Yates
wrote:
Amen! Excellent point, Bob.

Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a
known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that
excellence in posting.

What is excellent is his point that any person who makes
unsubstantiated accusations at a known, identifiable person or
organization while keeping their own identity hidden is, at a minimum,
unethical, and more pointedly, slanderous, spineless, and full of hot
air.
--
% Randy Yates % "Bird, on the wing,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % goes floating by
%%% 919-577-9882 % but there's a teardrop in his eye..."
%%%% % 'One Summer Dream', *Face The Music*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

In article , Randy Yates
wrote:

Telamon writes:
[...]
In article , Randy Yates
wrote:
Amen! Excellent point, Bob.

Oh, I see he made an excellent point by misconstruing my post mocking a
known Troll and can't even get my handle right. I'd sure call that
excellence in posting.

What is excellent is his point that any person who makes
unsubstantiated accusations at a known, identifiable person or
organization while keeping their own identity hidden is, at a minimum,
unethical, and more pointedly, slanderous, spineless, and full of hot
air.

That would make you pointless then.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California