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OT, I'll be Damned
In article ,
Billy Burpelson wrote: Telamon wrote: Try to understand your place in this. You are being used. Do you understand that you are being used by socialists LOL at an un-repentant Cold War relic who sees a commie under every rock. Maybe you can dig up old 'Tail-Gunner' Joe McCarthy and explain it to him. You may get more sympathy... McCarthy was slandered by commie pinko people like you. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
In article ,
David wrote: On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:50:44 -0700, RHF wrote: On Oct 23, 10:18 pm, Ross Archer wrote: On Oct 21, 1:53 am, RHF wrote: - You can choose to ignore what science says, - but you cannot claim that scientific opinion - says something other than what it does. - Humans are causing the majority of recent warming. - That is the state of current best scientific knowledge. - This is not opinion. It is documented fact. RA - DUH ! - Scientific 'Opinion(s)' is NOT Indisputable Incontrivertable Scientific Fact [.] Documenting a Group of Like 'Opinions' Does Not Make These 'Opinions' Facts. and thems is the facts ~ rhf . - Scientific opinion = what the available facts and evidence indicates - after the application of REASON. RA - Alas It Is Still 'Opinion' -and- Not A Hard Fact [.] - What, in the absence of absolute proof, - would you use to establish what's true? RA - Actual Hard Facts -and- The Truth -not- a Collection of 'Opinions' - Reading tea leaves? - Using divining rods? - Praying to the Pink Sky Unicorn? RA - There You Go Off-the-Deep-End -Point-of-Fact- I never suggested any of those. - Sorry, but when the majority of scientists make a statement based - on evidence and reason, it's by far the most likely to be true. RA - Selective Evidence and Skewed Reasoning Does Not Make Foregone Conclusions True. - Scientific "opinion" is the closest to fact. - I don't know what you're using, but it's inferior. RA - 'Close To' a "Fact" still is NOT A FACT [.] That's Common Sense -and- The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming is the Understanding that Climate Change does Exist and that We 'may-be' Loooking at a Period of Climate Change in the Future of Mankind upon this Planet that We Call The Earth. - -- ross- RA - You Are Simply Entitled To Your 'Opinion' -and- That's A Fact ~ RHF . Wouldn't it be prudent to prepare for the worst just in case? What harm would it do? Money, money, and more money. Oh yeah, and the socialist commies get more power by running your life into the ground. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
OT, I'll be Damned
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:14:42 -0700, Telamon
wrote: In article , Billy Burpelson wrote: Telamon wrote: Try to understand your place in this. You are being used. Do you understand that you are being used by socialists LOL at an un-repentant Cold War relic who sees a commie under every rock. Maybe you can dig up old 'Tail-Gunner' Joe McCarthy and explain it to him. You may get more sympathy... McCarthy was slandered by commie pinko people like you. McCarthy was a junkie. |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:44:30 -0700, Telamon
wrote: In article , David wrote: On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:50:44 -0700, RHF wrote: On Oct 23, 10:18 pm, Ross Archer wrote: On Oct 21, 1:53 am, RHF wrote: - You can choose to ignore what science says, - but you cannot claim that scientific opinion - says something other than what it does. - Humans are causing the majority of recent warming. - That is the state of current best scientific knowledge. - This is not opinion. It is documented fact. RA - DUH ! - Scientific 'Opinion(s)' is NOT Indisputable Incontrivertable Scientific Fact [.] Documenting a Group of Like 'Opinions' Does Not Make These 'Opinions' Facts. and thems is the facts ~ rhf . - Scientific opinion = what the available facts and evidence indicates - after the application of REASON. RA - Alas It Is Still 'Opinion' -and- Not A Hard Fact [.] - What, in the absence of absolute proof, - would you use to establish what's true? RA - Actual Hard Facts -and- The Truth -not- a Collection of 'Opinions' - Reading tea leaves? - Using divining rods? - Praying to the Pink Sky Unicorn? RA - There You Go Off-the-Deep-End -Point-of-Fact- I never suggested any of those. - Sorry, but when the majority of scientists make a statement based - on evidence and reason, it's by far the most likely to be true. RA - Selective Evidence and Skewed Reasoning Does Not Make Foregone Conclusions True. - Scientific "opinion" is the closest to fact. - I don't know what you're using, but it's inferior. RA - 'Close To' a "Fact" still is NOT A FACT [.] That's Common Sense -and- The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming is the Understanding that Climate Change does Exist and that We 'may-be' Loooking at a Period of Climate Change in the Future of Mankind upon this Planet that We Call The Earth. - -- ross- RA - You Are Simply Entitled To Your 'Opinion' -and- That's A Fact ~ RHF . Wouldn't it be prudent to prepare for the worst just in case? What harm would it do? Money, money, and more money. Oh yeah, and the socialist commies get more power by running your life into the ground. You're still fighting the last war. Money is obsolete (or soon will be). Deficits don't matter. If we spent on real humanitarian aid what we spend on military adventures we'd win the moral high ground in an instant. No one would dare criticise the rich nation saving millions of lives. |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Oct 25, 1:31 pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
RHF wrote: On Oct 23, 10:18 pm, Ross Archer wrote: On Oct 21, 1:53 am, RHF wrote: - You can choose to ignore what science says, - but you cannot claim that scientific opinion - says something other than what it does. - Humans are causing the majority of recent warming. - That is the state of current best scientific knowledge. - This is not opinion. It is documented fact. RA - DUH ! - Scientific 'Opinion(s)' is NOT Indisputable Incontrivertable Scientific Fact [.] Documenting a Group of Like 'Opinions' Does Not Make These 'Opinions' Facts. and thems is the facts ~ rhf . - Scientific opinion = what the available facts and evidence indicates - after the application of REASON. RA - Alas It Is Still 'Opinion' -and- Not A Hard Fact [.] - What, in the absence of absolute proof, - would you use to establish what's true? RA - Actual Hard Facts -and- The Truth -not- a Collection of 'Opinions' - Reading tea leaves? - Using divining rods? - Praying to the Pink Sky Unicorn? RA - There You Go Off-the-Deep-End -Point-of-Fact- I never suggested any of those. - Sorry, but when the majority of scientists make a statement based - on evidence and reason, it's by far the most likely to be true. RA - Selective Evidence and Skewed Reasoning Does Not Make Foregone Conclusions True. - Scientific "opinion" is the closest to fact. - I don't know what you're using, but it's inferior. RA - 'Close To' a "Fact" still is NOT A FACT [.] That's Common Sense -and- The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming is the Understanding that Climate Change does Exist and that We 'may-be' Loooking at a Period of Climate Change in the Future of Mankind upon this Planet that We Call The Earth. - -- ross- RA - You Are Simply Entitled To Your 'Opinion' -and- That's A Fact ~ RHF . I heard a climatologist on WGN some months ago. He was talking with the host about global warming. And he said, if you look at the data, it does, indeed make quite the dramatic point. And he quoted facts and figures that made quite the case. Most of which were used in Gore's case. But if you stepped back a frame, he went on, you started to see that scientists today are looking at a snapshot, a highly cropped snapshot without context. NOAA figures show that we are NOT in an unprecedented period of global warming. That the peak year so far, in recorded data is 1934. Highest global temperature on record. That geological data gathered through core samples have revealed that it was far warmer in the 13th through 17 centuries than it is now. Or will be even if current projections are accurate. And he went on with other data. And then he paused and explained that even if the data are accurate, a far bigger indicator of global climatic trends agricultural. Which crops grow where, and which don't. And the most easily observed, and most accurately indicative is where wine is grown. Wine vineyards only grow in specific conditions, one of which is average temperature. And wine vineyards have been slowly moving south for centuries. At one time, England had a thriving wine economy. Wine grew as far north as Scotland, and exports were highly prized worldwide. Many of the French stocks were born of English roots. Leif Ericson's expedition reported enormous wine vineyards growing in north of Nova Scotia. A German in his party, named Tyrker, left the encampment and wandered into this northern wine country for months. When discovered by other members of the party, he was drunk. So vast was the region of wine grapes, they call the place Vinland. Today, there is little wine grown in Canada. Due to the unfavorable cool temperatures. The climatologist concluded, that if you look at the history of where wine grows on this planet, you'd see a clear pattern of overall cooling. Which is what you'd expect after the recession of the glaciers at the end of an ice age (Quaternary) as processes spike global temperatures, which trigger the buffer mechanisms that result in gradual reduction of temperatures. Overall, he said, a cyclical process. And a natural cyclical process at that. But cyclical heating and cooling, in conjunction with natural entropy, results in overall global cooling. Which is what we've seen over the last 700 years. As for what's happening right now? We've seen an overall increase in the output of the sun. Temporary temperature spike. That will fade. More importantly, studies recently conducted in Yellowstone and environs revealed that the hunting to near extinction of wolves in the park did more to damage the environment than burning it to the ground. By removing large carnivores, large herbivore populations were allowed to mushroom, resulting in a defoliation of large areas of the park. Aspen trees disappeared almost in totality. Which had an astonishingly large environmental and climatological impact. By reintroducing wolves into the park 5 years ago, herbivore populations have abated, and foliage has returned, including Aspen trees. Rainfall patterns have returned to previous states. And while some wolves have to be taken as they get out of the park and endanger surrounding human settlements, the wholesale slaughter of wolves has NOT begun. And natural selection has continued unabated. With highly positive results. Which suggests that any man made impact on global climate change is not by shift in the carbon footprint, but by the wholesale slaughter of species without reason. Small takings are negligible. The hunt to extinction...that's another matter. Moderation in all things would then appear to be the key to survival. Would be the key to maintaining a healthy environment. Pre Columbian natives knew this for centuries before us. But this is a problem created, realized and solved. Effective impact-zero. But just look at the gradual southern migration of wine countries on this planet. That can ONLY happen in conditions of global cooling. This guy was dismissed by several callers as a heretic who deserved to have his funding revoked. Which is typical of religious zealots: You don't like the opposing viewpoint-silence it. The truth does not require, nor appreciate, such tactics. Only a politically expedient truth needs the silence of the opposition. The science is not settled. But the moral obligation is clear: Let cooler heads prevail and resist kneejerk responses which will have long term global consequences.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - DPM - Some good valid Info and a nice read. ~ RHF |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Oct 26, 7:35 am, David wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:44:30 -0700, Telamon wrote: In article , David wrote: On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:50:44 -0700, RHF wrote: On Oct 23, 10:18 pm, Ross Archer wrote: On Oct 21, 1:53 am, RHF wrote: - You can choose to ignore what science says, - but you cannot claim that scientific opinion - says something other than what it does. - Humans are causing the majority of recent warming. - That is the state of current best scientific knowledge. - This is not opinion. It is documented fact. RA - DUH ! - Scientific 'Opinion(s)' is NOT Indisputable Incontrivertable Scientific Fact [.] Documenting a Group of Like 'Opinions' Does Not Make These 'Opinions' Facts. and thems is the facts ~ rhf . - Scientific opinion = what the available facts and evidence indicates - after the application of REASON. RA - Alas It Is Still 'Opinion' -and- Not A Hard Fact [.] - What, in the absence of absolute proof, - would you use to establish what's true? RA - Actual Hard Facts -and- The Truth -not- a Collection of 'Opinions' - Reading tea leaves? - Using divining rods? - Praying to the Pink Sky Unicorn? RA - There You Go Off-the-Deep-End -Point-of-Fact- I never suggested any of those. - Sorry, but when the majority of scientists make a statement based - on evidence and reason, it's by far the most likely to be true. RA - Selective Evidence and Skewed Reasoning Does Not Make Foregone Conclusions True. - Scientific "opinion" is the closest to fact. - I don't know what you're using, but it's inferior. RA - 'Close To' a "Fact" still is NOT A FACT [.] That's Common Sense -and- The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming is the Understanding that Climate Change does Exist and that We 'may-be' Loooking at a Period of Climate Change in the Future of Mankind upon this Planet that We Call The Earth. - -- ross- RA - You Are Simply Entitled To Your 'Opinion' -and- That's A Fact ~ RHF . Wouldn't it be prudent to prepare for the worst just in case? What harm would it do? Money, money, and more money. Oh yeah, and the socialist commies get more power by running your life into the ground. You're still fighting the last war. Money is obsolete (or soon will be). Deficits don't matter. If we spent on real humanitarian aid what we spend on military adventures we'd win the moral high ground in an instant. - No one would dare criticise the rich nation saving millions of lives. David, Castro would and any Dictator or Regime that 'wants' Control Over the Masses for their own personal Power and Political and/or Financial Gain. ~ RHF |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:47:34 -0700, RHF
wrote: David, Castro would and any Dictator or Regime that 'wants' Control Over the Masses for their own personal Power and Political and/or Financial Gain. ~ RHF . Castro? WTF? Say what you want about the commies; they kept the radical Muslims in check. |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:30:55 -0800, David wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:47:34 -0700, RHF wrote: David, Castro would and any Dictator or Regime that 'wants' Control Over the Masses for their own personal Power and Political and/or Financial Gain. ~ RHF . Castro? WTF? Say what you want about the commies; they kept the radical Muslims in check. Ahh, no - they kept them in Chechnya. And of course when the US uses those tactics it's not keeping them in check it is considered an unwarranted incursion. No matter what topic you always are against the US and for anybody else - or so it seems to me anyway. One thing for sure Rickets.........you are a source of humor. Now go back to smoking banana peels and dreams of being Timothy Leary. |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:31:52 GMT, D Peter Maus
wrote: RHF wrote: On Oct 23, 10:18 pm, Ross Archer wrote: On Oct 21, 1:53 am, RHF wrote: - You can choose to ignore what science says, - but you cannot claim that scientific opinion - says something other than what it does. - Humans are causing the majority of recent warming. - That is the state of current best scientific knowledge. - This is not opinion. It is documented fact. RA - DUH ! - Scientific 'Opinion(s)' is NOT Indisputable Incontrivertable Scientific Fact [.] Documenting a Group of Like 'Opinions' Does Not Make These 'Opinions' Facts. and thems is the facts ~ rhf . - Scientific opinion = what the available facts and evidence indicates - after the application of REASON. RA - Alas It Is Still 'Opinion' -and- Not A Hard Fact [.] - What, in the absence of absolute proof, - would you use to establish what's true? RA - Actual Hard Facts -and- The Truth -not- a Collection of 'Opinions' - Reading tea leaves? - Using divining rods? - Praying to the Pink Sky Unicorn? RA - There You Go Off-the-Deep-End -Point-of-Fact- I never suggested any of those. - Sorry, but when the majority of scientists make a statement based - on evidence and reason, it's by far the most likely to be true. RA - Selective Evidence and Skewed Reasoning Does Not Make Foregone Conclusions True. - Scientific "opinion" is the closest to fact. - I don't know what you're using, but it's inferior. RA - 'Close To' a "Fact" still is NOT A FACT [.] That's Common Sense -and- The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming is the Understanding that Climate Change does Exist and that We 'may-be' Loooking at a Period of Climate Change in the Future of Mankind upon this Planet that We Call The Earth. - -- ross- RA - You Are Simply Entitled To Your 'Opinion' -and- That's A Fact ~ RHF . I heard a climatologist on WGN some months ago. He was talking with the host about global warming. And he said, if you look at the data, it does, indeed make quite the dramatic point. And he quoted facts and figures that made quite the case. Most of which were used in Gore's case. But if you stepped back a frame, he went on, you started to see that scientists today are looking at a snapshot, a highly cropped snapshot without context. NOAA figures show that we are NOT in an unprecedented period of global warming. That the peak year so far, in recorded data is 1934. Highest global temperature on record. That geological data gathered through core samples have revealed that it was far warmer in the 13th through 17 centuries than it is now. Or will be even if current projections are accurate. And he went on with other data. And then he paused and explained that even if the data are accurate, a far bigger indicator of global climatic trends agricultural. Which crops grow where, and which don't. And the most easily observed, and most accurately indicative is where wine is grown. Wine vineyards only grow in specific conditions, one of which is average temperature. And wine vineyards have been slowly moving south for centuries. At one time, England had a thriving wine economy. Wine grew as far north as Scotland, and exports were highly prized worldwide. Many of the French stocks were born of English roots. Leif Ericson's expedition reported enormous wine vineyards growing in north of Nova Scotia. A German in his party, named Tyrker, left the encampment and wandered into this northern wine country for months. When discovered by other members of the party, he was drunk. So vast was the region of wine grapes, they call the place Vinland. Today, there is little wine grown in Canada. Due to the unfavorable cool temperatures. The climatologist concluded, that if you look at the history of where wine grows on this planet, you'd see a clear pattern of overall cooling. Which is what you'd expect after the recession of the glaciers at the end of an ice age (Quaternary) as processes spike global temperatures, which trigger the buffer mechanisms that result in gradual reduction of temperatures. Overall, he said, a cyclical process. And a natural cyclical process at that. But cyclical heating and cooling, in conjunction with natural entropy, results in overall global cooling. Which is what we've seen over the last 700 years. As for what's happening right now? We've seen an overall increase in the output of the sun. Temporary temperature spike. That will fade. More importantly, studies recently conducted in Yellowstone and environs revealed that the hunting to near extinction of wolves in the park did more to damage the environment than burning it to the ground. By removing large carnivores, large herbivore populations were allowed to mushroom, resulting in a defoliation of large areas of the park. Aspen trees disappeared almost in totality. Which had an astonishingly large environmental and climatological impact. By reintroducing wolves into the park 5 years ago, herbivore populations have abated, and foliage has returned, including Aspen trees. Rainfall patterns have returned to previous states. And while some wolves have to be taken as they get out of the park and endanger surrounding human settlements, the wholesale slaughter of wolves has NOT begun. And natural selection has continued unabated. With highly positive results. Which suggests that any man made impact on global climate change is not by shift in the carbon footprint, but by the wholesale slaughter of species without reason. Small takings are negligible. The hunt to extinction...that's another matter. Moderation in all things would then appear to be the key to survival. Would be the key to maintaining a healthy environment. Pre Columbian natives knew this for centuries before us. But this is a problem created, realized and solved. Effective impact-zero. But just look at the gradual southern migration of wine countries on this planet. That can ONLY happen in conditions of global cooling. This guy was dismissed by several callers as a heretic who deserved to have his funding revoked. Which is typical of religious zealots: You don't like the opposing viewpoint-silence it. The truth does not require, nor appreciate, such tactics. Only a politically expedient truth needs the silence of the opposition. The science is not settled. But the moral obligation is clear: Let cooler heads prevail and resist kneejerk responses which will have long term global consequences. Awesome Peter - it's good to see somebody bringing some sense to the table. |
Common Sense - The Answer To The Fear Mongering of Global Warming
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