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Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 21, 4:10 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 4:11 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote: I just received this forward from my friend Pat. The name has been redacted for privacy purposes. ******** Begin quotation*********** Some interesting conversations recently... First is with a salesman at the Best Buy auto radio department. I asked if there was any call for HD Radios. Took him a minute to figure what I meant, but after he understood his answer was no. It seems this specific Best Buy has not sold even one of them. None were on display. It's a very busy store in the corridor between Boston and Providence. Similar conversation at two local Radio Shacks. No interest, didn't remember any sold. Chatting with a guy who works in a local sandwich shop. Early 20's and would like to work in radio. He was well aware of what HD Radio was and called it a scam. Bear in mind that he would like to ba an announcer and has no technical interest at all. His quote was pretty much that radio sounds fine now and why would he spend the money for something that will give no improvement. My question to him was what he thought about HD Radio. Nothing that would lead him in one direction or another. He was much more negative about HD Radio than I would have expected, and also differentiated it from HDTV for which he had praise. There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice-controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory-equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone. Local WPRO-630 has had the IBOC turned off for quite a while. And a couple other local IBOC stations don't decode well at all, even in the city grade coverage. I don't see any big interest in IBOC developing for this holiday season. Maybe even less than last year, if that's possible. The Fat Lady is warming up in the wings, and she's in analog. ****** ******* Providence, RI ********* End quotation********** -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice- controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory- equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone." Here's the scoop on that deal: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/200...sus-fords-deal... Again, with upwards of half a billion dollars in promotion already invested, and the R & D costs, don't expect iBiquity or Radio to give up on IBOC easily. Neither seems concerned at the fact that the public has no interest. - But remember that the Powell FCC mandated that all new modulation - schemes for broadcast be digital. - - That, alone, is enough to keep the IBOC flame burning for years to - come. And it's only a matter of time before someone begins the push - for the transition to all digital broadast. DPM, Incrementalism = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incrementalism 1% Digital followed by 2% of the Analog ERP in a few years. 2% Digital followed by 4% of the Analog ERP in a few more years. Followed by a 'Mandate' that all 'new' AM & FM Radios being sold in the USA be IBOC 'Compatible' within a few years after that. Followed by an 'Order' that all Analog AM & FM Radio broadcasting be in Digital a few more years after the Mandate, Like-It-Or-Not : The Result will be that within the next 10 to 15 Years "All" AM & FM Radio Broadcasting with be Digital. it is a 'vision' thing ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 21, 10:26 am, IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 21, 12:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 7:10 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 4:11 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote: I just received this forward from my friend Pat. The name has been redacted for privacy purposes. ******** Begin quotation*********** Some interesting conversations recently... First is with a salesman at the Best Buy auto radio department. I asked if there was any call for HD Radios. Took him a minute to figure what I meant, but after he understood his answer was no. It seems this specific Best Buy has not sold even one of them. None were on display. It's a very busy store in the corridor between Boston and Providence. Similar conversation at two local Radio Shacks. No interest, didn't remember any sold. Chatting with a guy who works in a local sandwich shop. Early 20's and would like to work in radio. He was well aware of what HD Radio was and called it a scam. Bear in mind that he would like to ba an announcer and has no technical interest at all. His quote was pretty much that radio sounds fine now and why would he spend the money for something that will give no improvement. My question to him was what he thought about HD Radio. Nothing that would lead him in one direction or another. He was much more negative about HD Radio than I would have expected, and also differentiated it from HDTV for which he had praise. There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice-controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory-equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone. Local WPRO-630 has had the IBOC turned off for quite a while. And a couple other local IBOC stations don't decode well at all, even in the city grade coverage. I don't see any big interest in IBOC developing for this holiday season. Maybe even less than last year, if that's possible. The Fat Lady is warming up in the wings, and she's in analog. ****** ******* Providence, RI ********* End quotation********** -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice- controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory- equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone." Here's the scoop on that deal: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/200...sus-fords-deal... Again, with upwards of half a billion dollars in promotion already invested, and the R & D costs, don't expect iBiquity or Radio to give up on IBOC easily. Neither seems concerned at the fact that the public has no interest. But remember that the Powell FCC mandated that all new modulation schemes for broadcast be digital. That, alone, is enough to keep the IBOC flame burning for years to come. And it's only a matter of time before someone begins the push for the transition to all digital broadast. This product is a farce. And the word 'scam' seems to apply more each day. But there's now much too much invested for either iBiquity, or the Radio industry to simply cut their losses and run. Eventually, they'll either embark on a promotional tack that keys on what the public is REALLY interested in, or they'll push for a mandated exit of analog broadcasting, as they're doing in the UK. With mixed results, btw. Expect the latter. The IBOC issue isn't dead by a long shot. With the public it's going nowhere. But Radio has been, for a number of years, now, openly uninterested in what the listener wants. Radio does what RADIO wants. And listeners...well, they're just numbers on a grid. If the listeners' interests were REALLY an issue, half of Fort Worth wouldn't have been blown off the map by tornadoes while the an unsuspecting public was listening to unattended radio stations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And, if consumers never buy HD radios, then a digital mandate will put an end to terrestrial radio - maybe, that would be a good thing. No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need. A digital mandate will create need. The uptake will follow. 250 million active Radio listeners will not simply stop listening because a digital mandate has been made. Many, if not most, of them will make the switch. Because there won't be access to what they currently enjoy every day. In the process, however, a lot of what Radio is, will change. Including the birth of Subscription Terrestrial Radio. And the ability of smaller, more nimble and responsive broadcasters to compete on an equal stage with the big operators.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need." No one can force consumers to buy new digital radios - terrestrial radio is already dying, and this would definatley put an end to it. No one cares about terrestrial radio anymore. TSL is down significantly, so consumers would simply give up on radio - many already have switched to other entertainment mediums. Many have. Many more will not. And if they have an interest in listening to what's on terrestrial radio, and a sizeable number will continue to, if there is a digital mandate, they'll have no choice but to buy the radios. No difference than digital TV. When they turn the NTSC signal off, if you want to watch your local channels, you have no choice but to buy an ATSC device. If they turn off the analog broadcast, listeners will buy digital receivers. No doubt that numbers are sliding for terrestrial radio. But it will not simply go away. Digital or not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - TSL is down significantly and terrestrial radio is dying Consumers will give up their radios before their TVs. Who buys radios anymore - Radio Shack and Best Buy no longer have "radio" departments. Radio is depending of those 800 million existing analog radios, that will not be replaced in any switch to digital. - Who comes home and listens to radio anymore I DO ! ~ RHF - now, it is cell phones, iPods, and the Internet. Not the Same Thing as Free Over-the-Air Radio. - Radio is yesterday's technology. I Am A 'Yesterday' Man ! - Who Loves to Listen To The Radio There are about 65 Million Americans Over the Age of 55 who are Still-A-Live and grew-up Listening-to-the-Radio. IBOC Crock - Keep Preaching You Brand of Hate for Radio. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 12:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 7:10 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 4:11 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote: I just received this forward from my friend Pat. The name has been redacted for privacy purposes. ******** Begin quotation*********** Some interesting conversations recently... First is with a salesman at the Best Buy auto radio department. I asked if there was any call for HD Radios. Took him a minute to figure what I meant, but after he understood his answer was no. It seems this specific Best Buy has not sold even one of them. None were on display. It's a very busy store in the corridor between Boston and Providence. Similar conversation at two local Radio Shacks. No interest, didn't remember any sold. Chatting with a guy who works in a local sandwich shop. Early 20's and would like to work in radio. He was well aware of what HD Radio was and called it a scam. Bear in mind that he would like to ba an announcer and has no technical interest at all. His quote was pretty much that radio sounds fine now and why would he spend the money for something that will give no improvement. My question to him was what he thought about HD Radio. Nothing that would lead him in one direction or another. He was much more negative about HD Radio than I would have expected, and also differentiated it from HDTV for which he had praise. There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice-controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory-equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone. Local WPRO-630 has had the IBOC turned off for quite a while. And a couple other local IBOC stations don't decode well at all, even in the city grade coverage. I don't see any big interest in IBOC developing for this holiday season. Maybe even less than last year, if that's possible. The Fat Lady is warming up in the wings, and she's in analog. ****** ******* Providence, RI ********* End quotation********** -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice- controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory- equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone." Here's the scoop on that deal: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/200...sus-fords-deal... Again, with upwards of half a billion dollars in promotion already invested, and the R & D costs, don't expect iBiquity or Radio to give up on IBOC easily. Neither seems concerned at the fact that the public has no interest. But remember that the Powell FCC mandated that all new modulation schemes for broadcast be digital. That, alone, is enough to keep the IBOC flame burning for years to come. And it's only a matter of time before someone begins the push for the transition to all digital broadast. This product is a farce. And the word 'scam' seems to apply more each day. But there's now much too much invested for either iBiquity, or the Radio industry to simply cut their losses and run. Eventually, they'll either embark on a promotional tack that keys on what the public is REALLY interested in, or they'll push for a mandated exit of analog broadcasting, as they're doing in the UK. With mixed results, btw. Expect the latter. The IBOC issue isn't dead by a long shot. With the public it's going nowhere. But Radio has been, for a number of years, now, openly uninterested in what the listener wants. Radio does what RADIO wants. And listeners...well, they're just numbers on a grid. If the listeners' interests were REALLY an issue, half of Fort Worth wouldn't have been blown off the map by tornadoes while the an unsuspecting public was listening to unattended radio stations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And, if consumers never buy HD radios, then a digital mandate will put an end to terrestrial radio - maybe, that would be a good thing. No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need. A digital mandate will create need. The uptake will follow. 250 million active Radio listeners will not simply stop listening because a digital mandate has been made. Many, if not most, of them will make the switch. Because there won't be access to what they currently enjoy every day. In the process, however, a lot of what Radio is, will change. Including the birth of Subscription Terrestrial Radio. And the ability of smaller, more nimble and responsive broadcasters to compete on an equal stage with the big operators.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need." No one can force consumers to buy new digital radios - terrestrial radio is already dying, and this would definatley put an end to it. No one cares about terrestrial radio anymore. TSL is down significantly, so consumers would simply give up on radio - many already have switched to other entertainment mediums. Many have. Many more will not. And if they have an interest in listening to what's on terrestrial radio, and a sizeable number will continue to, if there is a digital mandate, they'll have no choice but to buy the radios. No difference than digital TV. When they turn the NTSC signal off, if you want to watch your local channels, you have no choice but to buy an ATSC device. If they turn off the analog broadcast, listeners will buy digital receivers. No doubt that numbers are sliding for terrestrial radio. But it will not simply go away. Digital or not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - TSL is down significantly and terrestrial radio is dying Consumers will give up their radios before their TVs. Who buys radios anymore - Radio Shack and Best Buy no longer have "radio" departments. Radio is depending of those 800 million existing analog radios, that will not be replaced in any switch to digital. Not all of them, to be sure. But there WILL be many that are. Who comes home and listens to radio anymore - now, it is cell phones, iPods, and the Internet. Radio is yesterday's technology. About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Much of what you say is true. But Radio is not going away anytime soon. That is a much-ballyhooed stat that seems way divorced from reality. I don't know anyone under 30 who voluntarily listens to the OTA radio. They all think it sucks. To get that 90% figure they must be counting incidental listening, like at the Circle K or music on hold. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in .... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Digital has its place in cell phone technology, and such, but with terrestrial radio is is just "digital hype". Wait until the digital TV debacle, as digital is all-or-nothing, and consumers that are used to analog's fading, will get blank TV screens, when the digital signals fade. Likewise, consumers will not put up with HD Radio's cutouts, 8 second recapture delays, and with no analog backups for the HD2/HD3 channels - this is especially true in the mobile environment. Sync and Satellite Radio are taking over in-dash, and Ford can't sell the dealer-installed HD radios - they are now given away with new car purchases. I imagine that the HD radios are also being returned as "defective". After all of the hype, QVC couldn't even sell these turkeys. |
Remembering Radio When - 'Standard School Hour' and Carmen Dragon
"Bob Campbell" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: Yes Siree Bob - I remember Listening to the Radio all-the-way-back to 1965 and way before that too. Back to 1938 for me. Orson Welles "War of the Worlds". George Burns & Gracie Allen, Jack Benny, Fred Allen, et al FYI, nearly every episode of those shows are available right now for free on the net. I currently have over 2000 episodes of various shows now - The Whistler, Fibber McGee, Jack Benny, Fred Allen, Johnny Dollar, The Lives of Harry Lime (Orson Welles at his very best), Our Miss Brooks, Duffy's Tavern (an outrageously funny show), The Great Gildersleeve and others. www.archive.org. I'm listening to Fibber McGee & Molly right now. Who knows what's up next - I've got a 30 gig Ipod filled with shows set on random play! Bob Campbell Indeed Bob - great website - Groucho Marx clips are hilarious |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Don't underestimate the power of commitment. There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Look at it now. We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. And as far as the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is HDTV. An FCC mandate is not out of the question. So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. But that's only the picture right now. There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it. |
IBOC Crock - Get-A-Life - Turn-On-The-Radio -and- Simply EnjoyListening To It !
On Nov 22, 5:54Â*am, IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Digital has its place in cell phone technology, and such, but with terrestrial radio is is just "digital hype". Wait until the digital TV debacle, as digital is all-or-nothing, and consumers that are used to analog's fading, will get blank TV screens, when the digital signals fade. Likewise, consumers will not put up with HD Radio's cutouts, 8 second recapture delays, and with no analog backups for the HD2/HD3 channels - this is especially true in the mobile environment. Sync and Satellite Radio are taking over in-dash, and Ford can't sell the dealer-installed HD radios - they are now given away with new car purchases. I imagine that the HD radios are also being returned as "defective". After all of the hype, QVC couldn't even sell these turkeys.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IBOC Crock, Over Time the Newsgroup Readers Will Tire of Your Endless Rant That Is Anti-HD-Radio and Decidedly Anti-Radio-In-General. Yes the New Tectnology is Out-There -but- Your Endless Anti-Radio Ranting is - boring, Boring. BORING ! Get-A-Life - Turn-On-The-Radio -and- Simply Enjoy Listening To It ! Post something about what you Heard on the Shortwave Radio Write something about your newest Radio -or- an old Radio that you remember well oh-so-long-ago. Tell Us About - The Good Old Days In-Your-Life - When Radio Was . . . iboc crock - for now you are just another broken record ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 8:38Â*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IBOC Technology will Live or Die because of it's Acceptance and Adoption in the FM Radio Band where the Majority of Free Over-the-Air Radio Listeners ARE [.] + Plus These Are The Younger Listeners : So They Are The Future Growth and Profitability of Radio. IBOC 'allows' for more Content to be distributed 'Free" to the Listeners Over-the-Air -via- the FM Radio Stations : Eventually the FM Radio Stations will be able to Monetize their HD-2 Radio Channels and create a Second Income Stream and potentially Greater Profits for the Radio Broadcast Companies. AND AM/MW RADIO WILL SIMPLY BE DRAGGED ALONG WITH FM RADIO AS IBOC "HD" RADIO PROGRESSES [.] it's a 'vision' thing ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 8:38Â*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo AM Stereo had no single Mandated Format and there were Legal Challenges to the Addopted AM Stereo Format. iBiquity's IBOC Consortium and the FCC Support for IBOC "HD" Radio -solved- the Adoption Problems that AM Stereo Faced. Note - Letting the Market Decide Means Letting the Radio Broadcasters and Advertivers Decide -cause- They are the one shelling out the Money to Buy Listener's Ears to Market Their Products To. Eventually The FCC will Do Two Things : 1st - Mandate that All New AM & FM Radio Be IBOC Compatible. 2nd - Require that All AM & FM Radio Broadcasting Be Digital. THE FIX IS IN [.] debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 21, 11:11 pm, rickets wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 12:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 7:10 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 4:11 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote: I just received this forward from my friend Pat. The name has been redacted for privacy purposes. ******** Begin quotation*********** Some interesting conversations recently... First is with a salesman at the Best Buy auto radio department. I asked if there was any call for HD Radios. Took him a minute to figure what I meant, but after he understood his answer was no. It seems this specific Best Buy has not sold even one of them. None were on display. It's a very busy store in the corridor between Boston and Providence. Similar conversation at two local Radio Shacks. No interest, didn't remember any sold. Chatting with a guy who works in a local sandwich shop. Early 20's and would like to work in radio. He was well aware of what HD Radio was and called it a scam. Bear in mind that he would like to ba an announcer and has no technical interest at all. His quote was pretty much that radio sounds fine now and why would he spend the money for something that will give no improvement. My question to him was what he thought about HD Radio. Nothing that would lead him in one direction or another. He was much more negative about HD Radio than I would have expected, and also differentiated it from HDTV for which he had praise. There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice-controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory-equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone. Local WPRO-630 has had the IBOC turned off for quite a while. And a couple other local IBOC stations don't decode well at all, even in the city grade coverage. I don't see any big interest in IBOC developing for this holiday season. Maybe even less than last year, if that's possible. The Fat Lady is warming up in the wings, and she's in analog. ****** ******* Providence, RI ********* End quotation********** -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "There has been a fairly big deal made about the fact that Ford now offers a dealer installed HD Radio. What they have ignored is the Ford Sync that is standard in some Focus models, among others. This offers voice- controlled iPod and other audio choices, but *no* HD Radio. This is a factory- equipped option and not something the dealer has to do. Seems like Ford isn't really behind HD Radio after all. Just tossing iBiquity a very small bone." Here's the scoop on that deal: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/200...sus-fords-deal... Again, with upwards of half a billion dollars in promotion already invested, and the R & D costs, don't expect iBiquity or Radio to give up on IBOC easily. Neither seems concerned at the fact that the public has no interest. But remember that the Powell FCC mandated that all new modulation schemes for broadcast be digital. That, alone, is enough to keep the IBOC flame burning for years to come. And it's only a matter of time before someone begins the push for the transition to all digital broadast. This product is a farce. And the word 'scam' seems to apply more each day. But there's now much too much invested for either iBiquity, or the Radio industry to simply cut their losses and run. Eventually, they'll either embark on a promotional tack that keys on what the public is REALLY interested in, or they'll push for a mandated exit of analog broadcasting, as they're doing in the UK. With mixed results, btw. Expect the latter. The IBOC issue isn't dead by a long shot. With the public it's going nowhere. But Radio has been, for a number of years, now, openly uninterested in what the listener wants. Radio does what RADIO wants. And listeners...well, they're just numbers on a grid. If the listeners' interests were REALLY an issue, half of Fort Worth wouldn't have been blown off the map by tornadoes while the an unsuspecting public was listening to unattended radio stations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And, if consumers never buy HD radios, then a digital mandate will put an end to terrestrial radio - maybe, that would be a good thing. No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need. A digital mandate will create need. The uptake will follow. 250 million active Radio listeners will not simply stop listening because a digital mandate has been made. Many, if not most, of them will make the switch. Because there won't be access to what they currently enjoy every day. In the process, however, a lot of what Radio is, will change. Including the birth of Subscription Terrestrial Radio. And the ability of smaller, more nimble and responsive broadcasters to compete on an equal stage with the big operators.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, it won't put an end to terrestrial radio. It will put an end to analog terrestrial radio. But with nearly 250 million active radio listeners, a digital mandate will simply force currenty uninterested listeners to make the switch to digital. The reason the HD uptake has been so slow is that there is no interest. The reason there's been no interest is that there's no perceived need." No one can force consumers to buy new digital radios - terrestrial radio is already dying, and this would definatley put an end to it. No one cares about terrestrial radio anymore. TSL is down significantly, so consumers would simply give up on radio - many already have switched to other entertainment mediums. Many have. Many more will not. And if they have an interest in listening to what's on terrestrial radio, and a sizeable number will continue to, if there is a digital mandate, they'll have no choice but to buy the radios. No difference than digital TV. When they turn the NTSC signal off, if you want to watch your local channels, you have no choice but to buy an ATSC device. If they turn off the analog broadcast, listeners will buy digital receivers. No doubt that numbers are sliding for terrestrial radio. But it will not simply go away. Digital or not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - TSL is down significantly and terrestrial radio is dying Consumers will give up their radios before their TVs. Who buys radios anymore - Radio Shack and Best Buy no longer have "radio" departments. Radio is depending of those 800 million existing analog radios, that will not be replaced in any switch to digital. Not all of them, to be sure. But there WILL be many that are. Who comes home and listens to radio anymore - now, it is cell phones, iPods, and the Internet. Radio is yesterday's technology. About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Much of what you say is true. But Radio is not going away anytime soon. That is a much-ballyhooed stat that seems way divorced from reality. I don't know anyone under 30 who voluntarily listens to the OTA radio. They all think it sucks. To get that 90% figure they must be counting incidental listening, like at the Circle K or music on hold. David - 100% of My Population Listens to Free Over-the-Air Radio and that's What Matters To Me. ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 11:38Â*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ |
IBOC Crock - Get-A-Life - Turn-On-The-Radio -and- Simply EnjoyListening To It !
On Nov 22, 11:43Â*am, RHF wrote:
On Nov 22, 5:54Â*am, IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Digital has its place in cell phone technology, and such, but with terrestrial radio is is just "digital hype". Wait until the digital TV debacle, as digital is all-or-nothing, and consumers that are used to analog's fading, will get blank TV screens, when the digital signals fade. Likewise, consumers will not put up with HD Radio's cutouts, 8 second recapture delays, and with no analog backups for the HD2/HD3 channels - this is especially true in the mobile environment. Sync and Satellite Radio are taking over in-dash, and Ford can't sell the dealer-installed HD radios - they are now given away with new car purchases. I imagine that the HD radios are also being returned as "defective". After all of the hype, QVC couldn't even sell these turkeys.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IBOC Crock, Over Time the Newsgroup Readers Will Tire of Your Endless Rant That Is Anti-HD-Radio and Decidedly Anti-Radio-In-General. Yes the New Tectnology is Out-There -but- Your Endless Anti-Radio Ranting is - boring, Boring. BORING ! Get-A-Life - Turn-On-The-Radio -and- Simply Enjoy Listening To It ! Post something about what you Heard on the Shortwave Radio Write something about your newest Radio -or- an old Radio that you remember well oh-so-long-ago. Tell Us About - The Good Old Days In-Your-Life - When Radio Was . . . iboc crock - for now you are just another broken record ~ RHF Â*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I listen to WLW and WBBM every night, if not blocked by IBOC hash - as a matter of fact: "News/Talk/Sports:Radio's Last Bastion" "Music FMs of any flavor are utterly screwed... Right now -- while FMs are losing the music audience to new media -- satellite radio is offering more News/Talk/Sports programming than we can fit on AM radio..." http://ftp.media.radcity.net/ZMST/daily/IS031005.htm "The Last Days of AM Radio?" "Sports, all-news and talk programming continue to draw large audiences to the AM band in most big cities..." http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfi..._am_radio.html "News/Talk/Sports Tops Radio Formats, Interep Analysis Reveals" "The latest share numbers place the News/Talk/Sports format at the top, pulling in an average of 17 percent of listenership among persons age 12-plus, based on Arbitron figures for total radio listening in 92 continuously measured metros. That share number is even higher than levels seen last spring, when the war in Iraq began. According to Interep, more stations than ever are programming News/Talk." http://www.thenewsletterplace.com/05...9/article4.htm |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 11:38Â*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry... blah, blah, blah..." Come back here - I'm not done with you yet! Most of that "money" ($680 million) is unsold advertising time, which stations were not going to continue into 2008. Gee, what does that say about terrestrial radio that they have $680 million in unsold ad time - it's dying! Large market stations have only spent a few hundred thousand dollars each upgrading to HD - according to Eduardo, a drop in the bucket; so, you argument fails here, too! Now, come back here! |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... IBOCcrock wrote: What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. It's a little more complicated. The first time FM started, it was just months before W.W. II, and stations with licences for the old 46 mHz band could not get gear due to wartime rationing. The few that got ont he air ran into the issue that being a non-network independent station meant playing recordings, and running afoul of Petrillo and the AFM thugs who tried for decades to keep recorded music off the radio. After the War, the band changed to the current frequencies. By 1950, there were 1000 stations on the air. By 1960, nearly half had been surrendered to the FCC. The issue was the crisis in AM in the 50's, when TV forced radio to drop the drama and entertainment mode and change to music, leaving very little for FM to do to set itself apart. The 1960 introduction of stereo was a flop... it took 3 years to get 100 stations on in stereo. Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. That was part. The 1967 drop dead date on discontinuing of simulcasting was a catalyst but not the cause of a new opportunity for FM. What really made the difference was the polarizing of Top 40 audiences into fragments or segments, hard rock, pop and AC... even oldies. This allowed some FMs to take the new fragments and parlay them into a format. The first oldies stations happened the next year, and progressive or free form rock stations sprung up all over. "Chicken Rock" or AC came shortly after, and pop oriented CHR started in the 1971-1972 period with WMYQ, WDRQ, KSLQ and others like WERC-FM being among the first 4 or 5 FM only CHRs. There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. Actually, there has been less than $5 million spent on promotion. The rest of the HD Alliance "spending" is in spots on the Alliance members' own stations. In essence, this is a very low cost opportunity. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. This we agree on. And its success is not needed for FM in the short term, but it could have had some effect on saving FM from death. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as 'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... IBOCcrock wrote: What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. It's a little more complicated. The first time FM started, it was just months before W.W. II, and stations with licences for the old 46 mHz band could not get gear due to wartime rationing. The few that got ont he air ran into the issue that being a non-network independent station meant playing recordings, and running afoul of Petrillo and the AFM thugs who tried for decades to keep recorded music off the radio. After the War, the band changed to the current frequencies. By 1950, there were 1000 stations on the air. By 1960, nearly half had been surrendered to the FCC. The issue was the crisis in AM in the 50's, when TV forced radio to drop the drama and entertainment mode and change to music, leaving very little for FM to do to set itself apart. The 1960 introduction of stereo was a flop... it took 3 years to get 100 stations on in stereo. Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. That was part. The 1967 drop dead date on discontinuing of simulcasting was a catalyst but not the cause of a new opportunity for FM. What really made the difference was the polarizing of Top 40 audiences into fragments or segments, hard rock, pop and AC... even oldies. This allowed some FMs to take the new fragments and parlay them into a format. The first oldies stations happened the next year, and progressive or free form rock stations sprung up all over. "Chicken Rock" or AC came shortly after, and pop oriented CHR started in the 1971-1972 period with WMYQ, WDRQ, KSLQ and others like WERC-FM being among the first 4 or 5 FM only CHRs. There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. Actually, there has been less than $5 million spent on promotion. The rest of the HD Alliance "spending" is in spots on the Alliance members' own stations. In essence, this is a very low cost opportunity. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. This we agree on. And its success is not needed for FM in the short term, but it could have had some effect on saving FM from death. Damn! All those years you mention were way before you adopted the 'Eduardo' shtick in 2000. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. FM didn't interfere with existing AM service. Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Look at it now. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
David Frackelton Gleason proved yet again that he's dumber than a rock and still poses as 'Eduardo' and wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. Along with the QRM, oh faux one! |
Latest e-mail about IBOC - fe de errata
On Nov 22, 3:33�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message ... Fe de errata... This we agree on. And its success is not needed for FM in the short term, but it could have had some effect on saving FM from death. That should be "saving AM" and not FM. No, it is the music-related FMs that are screwed - news/talk/sports on the 50KW AMs is alive and well. AM -HD will destroy AM with adjacent- channel interference and poor coverage. Most 60kw AMs are rated #1, or in the top-5. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 3:40Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 11:38 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ Â* Â*With all due respect, no, you don't. By your ignorant rants, yes I do! |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 5:14�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... � FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. � Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an �FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. Too bad, no one is buying HD radios, after two years. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in .... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm As I stated, it is up to the marketplace to determine the fate of HD Radio - with total consumer apathy and zero uptake of HD radios in two years, HD/IBOC will never happen - I win! |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 12:55Â*pm, IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 22, 11:38Â*am,D Peter wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm,D Peter wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry... blah, blah, blah..." Come back here - I'm not done with you yet! Most of that "money" ($680 million) is unsold advertising time, which stations were not going to continue into 2008. Gee, what does that say about terrestrial radio that they have $680 million in unsold ad time - it's dying! Large market stations have only spent a few hundred thousand dollars each upgrading to HD - according to Eduardo, a drop in the bucket; so, you argument fails here, too! Now, come back here!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Stations have always had unsold air time. That's where they fit in their public service extras. And if they still have left overs - they hire an ad agency to sell -- " public service reminders brought to you by some local business" which helps pick up the unsold air time. The stations that have the most audience have less unsold air times -- the stations with the smaller audiences - have more unsold air time. I don't think that unsold air time can prove that terrestrial radio. And stations sources of income have broaden from just air time anyways. They have new revenue streams now to make up for deficits in other areas. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 4:14 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. So, then are you saying that HD radio, once all stations go to that, will require everyone to purchase an HD radio - or could one still listen to the station on a regular radio - with just poorer quality reception?? |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 22, 3:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 11:38 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Don't underestimate the power of commitment. There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Look at it now. We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. And as far as the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is HDTV. An FCC mandate is not out of the question. So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. But that's only the picture right now. There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ With all due respect, no, you don't. By your ignorant rants, yes I do! Actually, you need to read a little more closely. And do some historical research. Blogs are fine. But facts are a lot nicer in a discussion. Do have a nice holiday weekend. p |
Latest e-mail about IBOC - fe de errata
"IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 22, 3:33?pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message ... Fe de errata... This we agree on. And its success is not needed for FM in the short term, but it could have had some effect on saving FM from death. That should be "saving AM" and not FM. No, it is the music-related FMs that are screwed - news/talk/sports on the 50KW AMs is alive and well. No, it is not. When stations like KGO in San Francisco have lost a third or more of their billing in the last 7 year period, and the audience in 25-54 has never been lower, AM is in crisis. The talk formats are moving ever more rapidly to FM, with the latest being 50 kw WIBC in Indianapolis, whose format moves totally to FM in 40 days. AM -HD will destroy AM with adjacent- channel interference and poor coverage. Most 60kw AMs are rated #1, or in the top-5. Actually, most are not. 50 kw KMIK in Phoenix is dead last. 50 kw KBLA in LA is second from last. There are only a handful of 50 kw AMs that are #1, such as KMOX, WCCO, KGO, KMJ. None are #1 or clese to it in 25-54. There are 98 50 kw day and night stations. About 10 are #1 or #2. None is #1 or 2 in 25-54. More than half are not even in the top 10 in 25-54, the only ages that count for sales. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
wrote in message ... On Nov 22, 12:55 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Stations have always had unsold air time. Correct. When stations approach sellout, they move the rates to a higher grid and charge more. "If you are sold out, you are selling too cheap." That's where they fit in their public service extras. No, when there is unsold time, we play more music, or cluster the spots to do a music sweep. And if they still have left overs - they hire an ad agency to sell -- " public service reminders brought to you by some local business" which helps pick up the unsold air time. That is in very, very, very small markets. No rated market station with audience will let a third party sell their inventory. The stations that have the most audience have less unsold air times -- the stations with the smaller audiences - have more unsold air time. I don't think that unsold air time can prove that terrestrial radio. And stations sources of income have broaden from just air time anyways. They have new revenue streams now to make up for deficits in other areas. Further, there are times of the year when demand in higher, and times when it is lower, just like in TV or print or cable. That is an indication of market conditions, not a failure of radio.. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 7:25 pm, "
wrote: On Nov 22, 4:14 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message m... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. So, then are you saying that HD radio, once all stations go to that, will require everyone to purchase an HD radio - or could one still listen to the station on a regular radio - with just poorer quality reception??- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - BAJ, You can not listen to the "HD" Radio 'Digital' Signal on an Anolog Radio. 1 - Buy a HD Radio and Listen for Free. 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. 3 - Buy a Satellite Radio and Pay a Month Fee. Your Future Choice : Free -or- Monthly Fee ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
RHF wrote:
snip 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. Many WiFi Internet Radio appliances are already on the market; these are often used near public "hot spots" or open WiFi access points and don't require any fee. Many communities have a stated goal to provide large-area WiFi open access for VoIP, email and internet radio appliances and mesh and ad-hoc networks are also becoming more widespread. In urban areas at least, this will be a competition to terrestrial radio. Regards, Michael |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 5:16Â*pm, IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm - - As I stated, it is up to the marketplace to determine the fate - of HD Radio - with total consumer apathy and zero uptake of - HD radios in two years, HD/IBOC will never happen - I win! - IBOC Crock -proclaims- I Win ! DOH ! - Your Hate of All-Things-Radio Makes You An A#1 Loser - now crock on ~ RHF |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 3:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 11:38 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Don't underestimate the power of commitment. There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Look at it now. We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. And as far as the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is HDTV. An FCC mandate is not out of the question. So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. But that's only the picture right now. There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ With all due respect, no, you don't. By your ignorant rants, yes I do! I was active in Broadcasting for 45 years. Started when I was 6. I've seen a lot of things come and go. Including here in Chicago. I still interface the broadcasting business every day. I don't think ignorant is a word that applies. Ok...reading everything here, we agree that IBOC/HD is a boondoggle. You're point is that it can't be revived. My point is that it can't be counted out. We agree that there's no market uptake of the technology, and, as things are, no interest means no future. We disagree on whether or not the end is in sight. You say yes, based on current market. I say probably not, based on the vagaries of public interests, commitment of the industry, and possible FCC involvement. We don't disagree that it COULD be over. I see that as a possibility. Where we diverge is on the commitment that's been made here and the determination of the parties involved to make this technology a standard, and a viable commercial entity. I see possibilities of success, if the parties involved make significant changes to the promotion of the technologies, and/or there is FCC involvement to require either the technology be included in all future receivers, or the end of analog broadcasting. You say neither's going to happen. I say that history says either/both may. You say that IBOC is a failure and will vanish, sooner than later. I say that EVEN IF IBOC is a failure it won't vanish anytime soon. Is that about right? Is that the conflict that has you so vitriolic? That we agree on the facts, but disagree on the future? I'll put my 50 years of personal experience, history and understanding of the history of the industry, up against your blogs. Care to make a wager? |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 2:28 am, RHF wrote:
On Nov 22, 7:25 pm, " wrote: On Nov 22, 4:14 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message m... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. So, then are you saying that HD radio, once all stations go to that, will require everyone to purchase an HD radio - or could one still listen to the station on a regular radio - with just poorer quality reception??- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - BAJ, You can not listen to the "HD" Radio 'Digital' Signal on an Anolog Radio. 1 - Buy a HD Radio and Listen for Free. 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. 3 - Buy a Satellite Radio and Pay a Month Fee. Your Future Choice : Free -or- Monthly Fee ~ RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 1 - Buy a HD Radio and Listen for Free. "HD Hypocrisy" "Here's a few more reasons why only iBiquity and a few clueless radio group heads could make a big thing out of HD radio tagging... The very damn radio stations that broadcast in HD offer no programming worth listening to. HD Radio is a virtual sewer of formats owners don't want on their terrestrial frequencies and other assorted garbage that no one sane would listen to -- let alone spend money for new radios -- tagging or not." http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com...hypocrisy.html 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. "Radio: Internet Radio or HD Radio. You choose!" "Here's the choice - supplementary channels of varied audio quality from the same radio chains that deliver today's unimaginative terrestrial radio formats or worldwide radio of every imaginable format and style where the passion is in the performance?... And, most of all, who'll apologize for the time and money spent, the years the radio industry bought into it, and the deceitfulness suffered because of Ibiquity and the HD Radio Alliance's misguidance." http://gormanmediablog.blogspot.com/...blog-post.html 3 - Buy a Satellite Radio and Pay a Month Fee. 15 million consumers have chosen to pay for uncensored "radio". Your Future Choice : Free -or- Monthly Fee "Let's Play Music Media Trick or Treat?" "Buy an HD radio and you get many new channels of music and radio programming. No. Buy an HD radio and get taken for a fool. The radio operators, however, won't be taken for fools. They're investing relatively nothing in the future of HD (wisely for them) and propping up the HD proponents with a meaningless HD initiative. (HD is the equivalent of trick or treating and returning home with an Apple that has a razor blade in it)." http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com...-or-treat.html |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 2:59Â*am, RHF wrote:
On Nov 22, 5:16Â*pm, IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm - - As I stated, it is up to the marketplace to determine the fate - of HD Radio - with total consumer apathy and zero uptake of - HD radios in two years, HD/IBOC will never happen - I win! - IBOC Crock -proclaims- I Win ! DOH ! - Your Hate of All-Things-Radio Makes You An A#1 Loser - now crock on ~ RHF Â*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - WiMAX edges closer to a radio near you http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/wimax_edges_clo.html |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 3:44Â*am, K Isham wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message .... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Look at it now. Â* Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Look at it now. Â* We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die.. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong.. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â*HDTV. Â* An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* But that's only the picture right now. Â* There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it. Mr Maus: I sincerely hope you are wrong about the FCC mandate. I recently purchased a Sangean HD1-X to replace my worn out tuner for my Â* stereo system and now wish that it had a IBOC stop switch. I grate my teeth every time it goes digital. It truncates the high end and over emphasis es the low (ie. Bass). The one AM station that I can receive in IBOC out of two currently is the worst of the bunch. The drop- outs at home Â*some fifteen miles from the antenna are worse than my DRM reception from Radio New Zealand 6000 miles away. The DRM sounds better also. I use a Ten Tec 320D Â*plus DREAM . FM IBOC sounds worse than CD quality, especially if they are broadcasting another channel. It sounds worse than a highly compressed MP4 or MP3 stream, and drops out worse than my dial up streaming channels. To sell it they are going to have to make improvements both on AM and FM. The subscription service won't sell if you cannot reliably pick it up. I think I'm going to subscribe to Satellite once the merger is through. At least they have a reliable portable unit. I was hoping that Sangean would have released the DRM-40 here in the states, but the FCC is dragging their feet in approving it. What a surprise. God help us if the FCC tries to make all the domestic short-wave stations switch to IBOC, at least the DRM signal is only 12kHz wide, not 30kHz. Drm sounds better than IBOC if we should mandated to digital, plus it is Â* open technology and most receivers could be modified to a 12KHZ filter and run on ... read more »- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm Clearly, it is up to consumers to determine the fate of HD Radio and they have spoken "NO" with their wallets. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 2:59Â*am, RHF wrote:
On Nov 22, 5:16Â*pm, IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm - - As I stated, it is up to the marketplace to determine the fate - of HD Radio - with total consumer apathy and zero uptake of - HD radios in two years, HD/IBOC will never happen - I win! - IBOC Crock -proclaims- I Win ! DOH ! - Your Hate of All-Things-Radio Makes You An A#1 Loser - now crock on ~ RHF Â*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You are just jealous! |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 22, 10:32Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 3:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 11:38 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public.. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ Â* Â*With all due respect, no, you don't. By your ignorant rants, yes I do! Â* Â*Actually, you need to read a little more closely. And do some historical research. Â* Â*Blogs are fine. But facts are a lot nicer in a discussion. Â* Â*Do have a nice holiday weekend. Â* Â*p A straignt quote from the Commission - have a nice day: "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 2:28 am, RHF wrote:
On Nov 22, 7:25 pm, " wrote: On Nov 22, 4:14 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message m... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. So, then are you saying that HD radio, once all stations go to that, will require everyone to purchase an HD radio - or could one still listen to the station on a regular radio - with just poorer quality reception??- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - BAJ, You can not listen to the "HD" Radio 'Digital' Signal on an Anolog Radio. 1 - Buy a HD Radio and Listen for Free. 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. 3 - Buy a Satellite Radio and Pay a Month Fee. Your Future Choice : Free -or- Monthly Fee ~ RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Internet radio requires a fee? I'm still waiting for my first bill in the mail. |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 11:19Â*am, IBOCcrock wrote:
On Nov 23, 2:59Â*am, RHF wrote: On Nov 22, 5:16Â*pm, IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52Â*pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible.. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "6/1/07 - FCC Releases Detailed Digital Audio Broadcast Rules" "At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations....We decline to adopt iBiquity’s presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0607.htm “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm - - As I stated, it is up to the marketplace to determine the fate - of HD Radio - with total consumer apathy and zero uptake of - HD radios in two years, HD/IBOC will never happen - I win! - IBOC Crock -proclaims- I Win ! DOH ! - Your Hate of All-Things-Radio Makes You An A#1 Loser - now crock on ~ RHF Â*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - WiMAX edges closer to a radio near you http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/wimax_edges_clo.html- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IBOC is going to look as old as the butter churn once WiMax is fully deployed. It's a done deal. |
IBOC "HD" Radio - The Radio Listening Public Is Just Being TakenAlong For The Ride
On Nov 23, 7:15Â*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Â* IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 3:40 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 22, 11:38 am, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 10:52 pm, D Peter Maus wrote: IBOCcrock wrote: On Nov 21, 2:07�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "IBOCcrock" wrote in message ... On Nov 21, 2:00 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... � �About 90% of the population still listens to the radio. �Even those with access to, and regular use of, other technologies. Actually, it is over 95%. Roughly the same as it was in 1965. 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2015 2020 Ah, you called Miss Cleo. Ask what Google stock will be at, will you? In the mid-60's, pundits said FM would never make it and radio would die due to TV. Those predictions are as accurate as yours. The satellite numbers are totally bogus, as sat radio has hit a brick wall on new subscriptions and the churn rate is huge after the free trial offers expire. Poor argument - the 1960's didn't have cell phone/streaming, Satellite Radio, the Internet, Internet Radio, etc...no nearly the same situation Bud! Â* Â*What's not acknowledged is that FM failed. Twice. Â* Â*Before it didn't. FCC mandates were in part responsible. Â* Â*Don't underestimate the power of commitment. Â* Â*There's been a huge investment in this technology. There's been an FCC mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â*And there's been a half a billion dollars spent in promotion. The point is not that HD's success is assured, but rather that HD's demise is not assured either. This is not going away anytime soon. It may go away, but it's far from over. Â* Â*And the forces that have sway are in a good position to make it a full-on madated conversion. Â* Â*If you really want to fight this, you'll not be successful by reporting it's premature demise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again. Â* Â*I keep repeating the same points because you keep ignoring the most important parts of the argument....1) regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it. They may not be able to make it successful, but they will not let it go easily. Even if IBOC goes no further than AM stereo, they're simply NOT going to let it go. Not after all the money that's been spent. Â* Â*If IBOC is to die, it will die slowly, and over a long period of time. Stations will tire of the internal costs associated with running HD/IBOC, and with no ROI ever possible from total consumer apathy, stations will tire of paying the on-going fees to iBiquty. Stations refuse to invest in it, Gen Y thinks the concept is lauable, old consumers don't want it, and retailers can't sell it. Â* Â*All of which is true. But the boat is in the water. They're not going to just abandon ship. Not after all the costs of launch. Â*Radio, iBiquity, and yes, FCC, will hang onto this for as long as they think they can turn it around. Remember, AM stereo was a dud, too. With international uptake. And it took 20 years to die. Â* Â*FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*Color TV took 15 years to catch on. Â* Â*Look at it now. Â* Â*We're only at the very beginning of the process marketing IBOC technology. If it's not working, but there are enough people driving this who think that it can be made successful, they'll keep flaying the horse until there's nothing left before they give up. And then blame DXers for the failure. Â* Â*Even if it cannot be made successful, IBOC will take years to die. iBiquity has laid out a 5 to 8 year plan...near to a decade, just to break even. Even if they hit the target, that's only the break even point. From there, it will take years to build real growth. Or, if not successful, it will take years for stations, and investors to give up on the money they've thrown at this issue and finally give up and go away. Â* Â*FM failed twice. And once it caught on, took nearly two decades to become what it is. 40 years is a long time to keep swinging....and yet FM, backed with a lot of creative thinking, and two FCC mandates became successful 4 decades after launch. Â* Â*And the only one driving FM for the first 10 years was Edwin Armstrong. There was no public interest. No industry interest. And no FCC support. Â* Â*IBOC has corporate involvement, industry support, and the FCC's mandate that all new modulation schemes be digital. Â* Â*It's not going to simply go away. The FCC learned from the AM Stereo debacle and will not mandate a shutoff of analog radio. Â* Â*Don't count on that, either. They didn't learn anything from AM Stereo. Â*HDTV was supposed to be a market choice, too. Totally voluntary uptake. And no talk of turning off the NTSC broadcast until and unless 85% of each market had moved to digital TV. And this was to be done market by market, allowing market forces to make the decisions. Â* Â*Well, that didn't work. Public interest was low. And new digital services wanted the spectrum. And they were willing to pay huge dollars for it. Â* Â*So, there was an FCC mandate. And now digital TV uptake is strong. I just added an ATSC tuner to my own system. I now have digital over-the-air TV. 30 channels of it. (without an HDTV--btw.) NTSC TV is going away in a little over a year, and the uptake of digital TV technology is brisk. Resulting in a faster conversion, improved technology, and much lower prices. Â* Â*IBOC offers the opportunity for more stations, conditional access...read that 'subscription radio,'... FCC benefits with more licensing and process fees...stations see an end to dictatorial advertisers...they're highly motivated to make IBOC work. No matter what it takes. And what it may take is an FCC mandate. Â* Â*Again, HDTV was to be market driven. FCC specifically said there woudl be no HDTV mandate. Now, there's a mandate. Don't think it can't happen with Radio. There are too many salivating to get it done for that not to be an option. Â* Â*IBOC. It certainly doesn't look good now. You and I agree there. The public is not interested. Costs of implementation are a sore point for broadcasters. iBiquity fees are absurd. We agree here. Â* Â*And nobody is liking where this is going. Not the public. Not the industry. We agree here, as well. Â* Â*But there are too many historic examples of new technology implemetation...even implementation badly executed...that have been turned around by changing the rules. Â* Â*FM benefitted from two FCC mandates. HDTV was mandated into life. Â* Â*History has shown us that FCC can and will mandate what they believe needs to be mandated. Even if reversing previous decisions to do it. Â* Â*And as far as Â*the spectrum issue is concerned...digital broadcasting frees up more local spectra. More stations, more FCC revenues. They've got a financial interest in this too. Â* Â*And the MW broadcast band is being eyed for low bitrate digital services. There is spectrum pressure in favor of IBOC, just as there is Â* HDTV. Â* Â*An FCC mandate is not out of the question. Â* Â*So, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IBOC isn't working. You're right about that. We agree. This is a boondoggle. And it's an expensive boondoggle. Â* Â*But that's only the picture right now. Â* Â*There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â* Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "regardless of the market uptake of this technology, the investors, the FCC and the stations involved are committed to it... There is too much history to suggest that with this much support in the industry, with this much money spent, with this much motivation on the part of broadcasters AND FCC....there is just too much historic evidence to make the claim that IBOC will just go away. Â*It may fail. But it will not just go away. It will peter out, and peter out and peter out....just like AM Stereo...and it will take more than a decade to do it." In response to you, here is the FCC's stance on HD/IBOC: “4/4/07 - FCC: Market to Decide Fate of HD Radio†"Other coverage of the FCC's decision notes that iBiquity, the proprietor of HD Radio, reacted in a manner like they exhal[ed] a sigh that's been held in for several years. Though it appears that the FCC has stopped short of a full-on, enthusiastic endorsement of the technology, it has removed all marketplace barriers to its proliferation. I don't believe this is because the FCC thinks it's the best DAB technology available, but it is the horse that the broadcast industry has its money on. We'll now see whether that bet is a good investment or not, and we'll be forced to learn the hard way whether the technology's shortfalls are as egregious as feared. Marketplace forces are not inexorable, and radio's digital transition will most likely take a decade or more to really take hold." http://www.diymedia.net/archive/0407.htm You obviously need to do more research, before you hysterically blow unsubstantiated opinions out of your arse. With no consumer interest after at least two years (really 5 years since HD has been broadcasting), HD/IBOC will never take-hold. The FCC is not interested in freeing-up the broadcast bands, as with TV, for auction. Automakers have no interest in HD/IBOC, just as with the general public - nothing can force consumers or automakers to buy/install HD radios. Who in hell cares about listening to radio anymore, except for radio-geeks, and incidental listening to/from work. iBiquity will be looking at exit stratagies in the near-futu "IBiquity sees digital radio signaling changes to come" "The company has yet to turn a profit and does not expect to do so in 2007 or 2008, Struble said... Mass marketing and consumer adoption is the last hurdle, Struble said... Representatives of investment firms that have spots on iBiquity's board of directors could not be reached for comment, but Struble said they are excited about the progress the company is making. The focus is not on exit strategies yet, he said." http://tinyurl.com/3don5y If you look at my blog, I have acquired far more HD/IBOC knowledge, over 2 years, than you could ever dream about: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ Â* Â*With all due respect, no, you don't. By your ignorant rants, yes I do! Â* Â*I was active in Broadcasting for 45 years. Started when I was 6. I've seen a lot of things come and go. Including here in Chicago. I still interface the broadcasting business every day. Â* Â*I don't think ignorant is a word that applies. Â* Â*Ok...reading everything here, we agree that IBOC/HD is a boondoggle. You're point is that it can't be revived. My point is that it can't be counted out. We agree that there's no market uptake of the technology, and, as things are, no interest means no future. Â* Â*We disagree on whether or not the end is in sight. You say yes, based on current market. I say probably not, based on the vagaries of public interests, commitment of the industry, and possible FCC involvement. Â* Â*We don't disagree that it COULD be over. I see that as a possibility. Where we diverge is on the commitment that's been made here and the determination of the parties involved to make this technology a standard, and a viable commercial entity. I see possibilities of success, if the parties involved make significant changes to the promotion of the technologies, and/or there is FCC involvement to require either the technology be included in all future receivers, or the end of analog broadcasting. Â* Â*You say neither's going to happen. I say that history says either/both may. Â* Â*You say that IBOC is a failure and will vanish, sooner than later. Â* Â*I say that EVEN IF IBOC is a failure it won't vanish anytime soon. Â* Â*Is that about right? Is that the conflict that has you so vitriolic? That we agree on the facts, but disagree on the future? Â* Â*I'll put my 50 years of personal experience, history and understanding of the history of the industry, up against your blogs. Â* Â*Care to make a wager? DPM & IBOC Crock, IBOC "HD" Radio - The Radio Listening Public Is Just Being Taken Along For The Ride http://groups.google.com/group/hd-ra...4081349a8fdbf1 1 - The Market for the Product "IBOC 'HD' Radio" is Radio Stations {The Broadcasters} at the Corporate Media Level. ? Do They 'Believe' That IBOC "HD" Radio Is Good For Their Corporate Business Model and the Broadcast Industry as a Whole ? -=YES=- ? Do They 'Believe' That IBOC "HD" {Digiital} Radio Is A Better Media Product Then The Current Analog Media Product ? -=YES=- ? Do They 'Believe' That IBOC "HD" {Digiital} Radio Will Give Them a Better Competitive Edge/Footing Against 'Other' Newer Digital Media Products ? -=YES=- ? Do They 'Believe' That FM IBOC "HD" {Digiital} Radio Will Give Them An Additional Income Source Per FM Radio Station An Add To Their Corporate Profits ? -=YES=- 2 - The Radio Stations {The Broadcasters} at the Corporate Media Level -Believe- That the Free Over-the-Air Radio Listening Public Will Accept and Adapt To : What They Can Get For Free From The Radio Stations {The Broadcasters}. 3 - As far as the FCC issuing Mandates and Requirements : The FCC Will Do What The Market Tells Them To Do : The Market Is Not 'The Radio Listening Public' : The Market Is In-Fact "Radio Stations {The Broadcasters} at the Corporate Media Level". The-Bottom-Line - The Slow Road {Years} To 100% Digital Broadcasting -Via- IBOC "HD" Radio Is Being Driven By Corporate Media -and- The Radio Listening Public Is Just Being Taken Along For The Ride [.] And That Is How I See It - As An Avid 'Free' Over-the-Air Radio Listener. hy dee ray dee oh ~ RHF Hello and Welcome to the "HD Radio" NewsGroup HD RADIO = http://groups.google.com/group/hd-radio/ |
Latest e-mail about IBOC
On Nov 23, 11:24 am, Steve wrote:
On Nov 23, 2:28 am, RHF wrote: On Nov 22, 7:25 pm, " wrote: On Nov 22, 4:14 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message m... "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... FM failed. Twice. The public didn't care. There was virtually no uptake. Look at it now. FM didn't require people to throw out their old radios and buy new ones. It didn't? How did you listen to FM on an AM radio. Similarly, HD does not require anyone buy a new radio unless they want to... the analog signals continue to be broadcast. Of course, you had the choice of simply not buying an FM radio, which is what 99% of the people did for the first 25 years of FM broadcasting. Color TV didn't require people to throw out their B/W sets and buy an expensive new color set. Color TV didn't interfere with existing B/W television services and was still viewable on existing B/W sets. Just as current radios will continue to receive analog signals. So, then are you saying that HD radio, once all stations go to that, will require everyone to purchase an HD radio - or could one still listen to the station on a regular radio - with just poorer quality reception??- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - BAJ, You can not listen to the "HD" Radio 'Digital' Signal on an Anolog Radio. 1 - Buy a HD Radio and Listen for Free. 2 - Buy a Internet Radio and Pay a Month Fee. 3 - Buy a Satellite Radio and Pay a Month Fee. Your Future Choice : Free -or- Monthly Fee ~ RHF .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Internet radio requires a fee? I'm still waiting for my first bill in the mail.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Steve, Do You Pay For Internet Access ? Via a Land Line or Cable ? [ ISP Costs ] The average Table Radio is ~25 Watts -while- The average Home PC is ~250 Watts [ 10X ] -extra- "WiFi" Whole House System you pay-through-the-nose month-after-month ~ RHF |
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