On Jan 5, 9:56*am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Billy Burpelson wrote:

RHF wrote:

FWIW - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

Three Rec.Radio.Shortwave Messages to Read -by- John Doty
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...bc6a2bf8acc12d
Well, "John Doty" in the reference above says:

Any *unshielded* [my emphasis added] conductor in your antenna/ground system is capable
of picking up noise: the antenna, the "lead-in" wire...
First of all, isn't the "lead-in wire" (coaxial cable in this
discussion) -shielded- ? So according to his -own- statement, coax
shouldn't have to be buried, at least from a noise mitigation viewpoint..

Doty continues:

You can keep noise currents away from the antenna by giving them
a path to ground near the house, giving antenna currents a path to
ground away from the house, and burying the the coaxial cable from
the house to the antenna.
In the 1930s, Bell Laboratories, while investigating power line
influence on telephone cables, proved that burial had NO effect on noise
being induced into the telephone cables; i.e., 20 feet of aerial
separation, from a noise standpoint, was exactly the same as 18 feet of
aerial separation plus being buried 2 feet deep.

Hmmm...should I believe "John Doty" or Bell Labs? You're a smart guy --
I'll let you figure that one out for yourself. * :-)
dxAce wrote:
Or, you might believe the 1990's rather than the 1930's :-)

- Well, I don't know about the "1990's" (isn't this the 2000s?),
- but it became a big issue in the 30s due to the rapidly
- expanding electrification of America.

John Doty wrote his 'stuff' in the 1990s.

- In any event, I'm sure that even the most superficial research
- on your part will show that the applicable Laws of Physics
- have not changed since then.

BP -wrt- The Applicable Law of Physics:- No They Have Not.

Undeniable Fact # 1 - The Man Made RFI-EMF Environment
Has Changed Greatly : Increasing one or two Magnitudes from
the 1930s to the 1990s.

Undeniable Fact # 2 - Man's Ability to Accurately Measure the
RFI-EMF Environment and It's Effects Has Changed Greatly :
Increasing at least a Magnitude from the 1930s to the 1990s.

super-ficial-ly yours ~ RHF

RHF wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:56 am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Billy Burpelson wrote:

RHF wrote:

FWIW - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

Three Rec.Radio.Shortwave Messages to Read -by- John Doty
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...bc6a2bf8acc12d
Well, "John Doty" in the reference above says:

Any *unshielded* [my emphasis added] conductor in your antenna/ground system is capable
of picking up noise: the antenna, the "lead-in" wire...
First of all, isn't the "lead-in wire" (coaxial cable in this
discussion) -shielded- ? So according to his -own- statement, coax
shouldn't have to be buried, at least from a noise mitigation viewpoint.

Doty continues:

You can keep noise currents away from the antenna by giving them
a path to ground near the house, giving antenna currents a path to
ground away from the house, and burying the the coaxial cable from
the house to the antenna.
In the 1930s, Bell Laboratories, while investigating power line
influence on telephone cables, proved that burial had NO effect on noise
being induced into the telephone cables; i.e., 20 feet of aerial
separation, from a noise standpoint, was exactly the same as 18 feet of
aerial separation plus being buried 2 feet deep.

Hmmm...should I believe "John Doty" or Bell Labs? You're a smart guy --
I'll let you figure that one out for yourself. :-)
dxAce wrote:
Or, you might believe the 1990's rather than the 1930's :-)

- Well, I don't know about the "1990's" (isn't this the 2000s?),
- but it became a big issue in the 30s due to the rapidly
- expanding electrification of America.

John Doty wrote his 'stuff' in the 1990s.

Exactly... therefore my comment about the debutantes, the malcontents and the faux's of SWBC.

RHF wrote:

Undeniable Fact # 1 - The Man Made RFI-EMF Environment
Has Changed Greatly : Increasing one or two Magnitudes from
the 1930s to the 1990s.

Undeniable Fact # 2 - Man's Ability to Accurately Measure the
RFI-EMF Environment and It's Effects Has Changed Greatly :
Increasing at least a Magnitude from the 1930s to the 1990s.

Undeniable Fact # 3 - According to a direct quote of Doty, UN-shielded
lead-in wires are susceptible to noise. Coaxial cable is SHIELDED. So
why does Doty say bury it?

Undeniable Fact # 4 - Even though the RFI environment has changed and
even though man's ability to measure it has changed, burial in a few
inches of soil provides no noise mitigation.

Undeniable Fact # 5 - Yes, the environment has changed and measurement
techniques have changed, but that does NOT mean the Laws of Physics have
changed.

Finally, for the sake of this discussion, assume your
neighbor/neighborhood is throwing out a lot of RF hash and trash.
Furthermore, let us assume you've buried your coax in hopes of
alleviating the problem (even though it won't).

What, pray tell, is to keep this neighborhood RF hash and trash from
impinging directly on the antenna itself and being piped right in to
your receiver?

-If you need to avoid the lawn mower, bury by all means.

-If you need to avoid the wrath of your wife, bury by all means.

-If you want to bury to mitigate noise, save your time, trouble and energy.