Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener (SWL) Receiving Antenna ? -versus- 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?
 

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 9:31 am, "vangellis" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

* * * * * * Five Star Snip * * * * *

- Gentlemen,
-
- Please!!!!!
- Enough of this bickering.
-
- With respect RHF,
- would you say I would benefit from buying this antenna
- and using it instead of my 30 foot end fed longwire
- (I am limited for space)
-
- regards Vangellis
- UK
-

Vangellis - The Short Answer is : "No". ~ RHF

The - L - o - n - g - Answer is :

Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener (SWL) Receiving Antenna ?
-versus- 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?

Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener (SW) Receiving Antenna
(WMSWA) has a Listed Price of £ 69.95 GBP which is
~ $ 139.50 USD ~ EURO 88.70 EUR

You now state that you already have a : 30 Foot End-Fed
Long-Wire (30 Ft. EFLW) Antenna in use.

IMHO - That is a better beginning then to try and use a
smaller and shorter 6 Foot Long bent Antenna made-up
of 12 Foot of Metal.

Your Present 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna has
a 5-to-1 Advantage in Size over the WMSW Antenna.
Meaning the 30 Ft. EFLW Antenna should be better.

Your Present 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna has a
2.5-to-1 Advantage in Length over the WMSW Antenna.
Meaning the 30 Ft. EFLW Antenna should be better.

The 'crude' calculation for Signal Capture Area
* 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna
30' x 12" x 1" = 360 Square Inches
* WMSW Antenna
2m x 39.37" x 3" = 236 Square Inches
Which is 1.5-to-1 Advantage in Signal Capture Area
Meaning the 30 Ft. EFLW Antenna should be better.

KEEP - The 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna.

QUESTIONS :

Q # 1 - Vangellis are you using a good earthen 8-Foot
Copper Ground Rod with the 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire
Antenna and for your Radios and Equipment in your Home ?
* You Should Be.
+ Improve your Antenna and Radio Shack with a Ground
for Less Noise and Better Safety.

Q # 2 - Vangellis are you using a Coax Cable feed-in-line
with the 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?
* You Should Be.
+ Improve your Antenna with a Coax Cable feed-in-line
for Less Noise and a Better Signal.

Q # 3 - Vangellis are you using a Matching Transformer
(Balun) -aka- Magnetic Longwire Balun "MLB" with your
30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?
* You Should Be.
+ Improve your Antenna with a Matching Transformer
for Less Noise and a Better Signal.

Q # 3 - Vangellis is your 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire
Antenna 'configured' in the Shape of an Inverted "L"
Antenna ?
* It Should Be.
+ Make Qs 1, 2 and 3 a lot easier To-Do and All Three
'together' work a lot better {Synergy} for Less Noise
and a Better Signal.

INVERTED "L" ANTENNA
Picture of an Inverted "L" Antenna Set-Up and Rigging
http://www.geocities.com/qrp_baluns/app-swlz.html
http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/improved_rw.htm
http://www.radiohc.org/Distributions...s/lantenna.gif
http://www.part15.us/encyclopedia/images/ant1.gif
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~wh2t/i...dl_files/L.jpg

Universal Magnetic Balun [UMB 130] - Price £ 24.95 GBP
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/buy.html
About the "Universal Magnetic Balun" (UMB)
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/UMB.html

The Right-Way {and Wrong-Way} to Install a LongWire Antenna.
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
Low Noise Longwire Antenna using the UMB -by- Wellbrook.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...5cc467b35a70d5

READ - Question is 'it' a Longwire {Random Wire} Antenna
-or- Inverted "L" Antenna ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...364956151adbba

READ - Flipping the Inverted "L" Antenna 'Back-to-Front'
= Better Performance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...4b09ea224f4434

READ - End Fed Shortwave Listening (SWL)
Antenna Reccomendations ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...7277e8657b87ae


vangellis - hope this helps - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}

PONG : Telamon - "Why don't you post your crap someplace and save usthe time reading your worthless posts?"
 

On Apr 6, 5:39*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

*RHF wrote:

SNIP


- - BpnJ - Ditto That !
- -
- - -ps- Build your own and $ave. ~ RHF
- - *.

- Why don't you post your crap someplace and save us
- the time reading your worthless posts?
- That's a rhetorical question so don't answer it.
- I don't need your approval and nether does Bruce.
- We have informed opinion where you don't
- so nobody cares what you think.
- Go back to answering the spam.
- You did a good job there.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California

Teli - You Make It All So too, Too. TOO ! Easy :o) ~ RHF
You Own Words Right Back At You : Simple and True !

PONG : Telamon - "Why don't you post your crap someplace and save us
the time reading your worthless posts?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Teli - Don't Forget : Do You Know How-To Keep a Jackass Waiting . . .

Telamon -wrote- "What a complete jackass."

Teli - Coming from You that is an Expert Opinion. ;-)

Telamon -wrote- "You don't have an answer."

Teli - Do You Know How-To Keep a Jackass Waiting . . .

Teli - I will Post My KISAP Answer Tomorrow. :o) ~ RHF

Today's The Day For The Answer Telamon . . .
Are You Ready To Bray At It ! ;-}
-ps- Teli you are really good at Braying the Words :
Retard, Idiot, Moron and Spammer . . .

Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener (SWL) Receiving Antenna ? -versus- 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?
 

In article
,
RHF wrote:

On Apr 6, 5:39*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

*RHF wrote:

SNIP


- - BpnJ - Ditto That !
- -
- - -ps- Build your own and $ave. ~ RHF
- - *.

- Why don't you post your crap someplace and save us
- the time reading your worthless posts?
- That's a rhetorical question so don't answer it.
- I don't need your approval and nether does Bruce.
- We have informed opinion where you don't
- so nobody cares what you think.
- Go back to answering the spam.
- You did a good job there.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California

Teli - You Make It All So too, Too. TOO ! Easy :o) ~ RHF
You Own Words Right Back At You : Simple and True !

PONG : Telamon - "Why don't you post your crap someplace and save us
the time reading your worthless posts?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Teli - Don't Forget : Do You Know How-To Keep a Jackass Waiting . . .

This is just another example of the crap you post here.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

PONG : Telamon - "This is just another example of the crap you posthere."
 

On Apr 7, 5:56*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

*RHF wrote:
On Apr 6, 5:39*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

*RHF wrote:

SNIP

- - BpnJ - Ditto That !
- -
- - -ps- Build your own and $ave. ~ RHF
- - *.

- - - Why don't you post your crap someplace and save us
- - - the time reading your worthless posts?
- - - That's a rhetorical question so don't answer it.
- - - I don't need your approval and nether does Bruce.
- - - We have informed opinion where you don't
- - - so nobody cares what you think.
- - - Go back to answering the spam.
- - - You did a good job there.
- - -
- - - --
- - - Telamon
- - - Ventura, California

- - Teli - You Make It All So too, Too. TOO ! Easy :o) ~ RHF
- - You Own Words Right Back At You : Simple and True !
- -
- - PONG : Telamon - "Why don't you post your crap someplace
- - and save us the time reading your worthless posts?"
- - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...69f3506203ee41
- -

-
- This is just another example of the crap you post here.
-
- --
- Telamon * The Chief Resident in-charge-of Alt.Idiots *
- Ventura, California
-

Telamon -wrote-
"This is just another example of the crap you post here."

OK Telamon - Let Me Get This Correct : Quoting You
and Re-Posting Your Own Words Back At You is CRAP [.]

PONG : Telamon - "This is just another example of the crap you post
here."

Again Teli - You Make It All So : easy, Easy. EASY ! :o) ~ RHF
Once Again Your Own Words Right Back At You : Simple and True !

Telamon - You are real good at Braying the Words :
Retard, Idiot, Moron and Spammer . . .
Stick to these 'things' that You Know Oh So Well !

=PS= Teli - Setting the Follow-Up To "Alt.Idiots" once again
just proves you know your home address. ;-}

Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener (SWL) Receiving Antenna ? -versus- 30 Foot End-Fed Long-Wire Antenna ?
 

In article
,
RHF wrote:


SNIP

And how is our news group retard doing tonight?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

PONG - Telamon - "And how is our news group retard doing tonight?"
 

On Apr 7, 11:30*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

*RHF wrote:
-
- SNIP *
-
- And how is our news group retard doing tonight?
-
- --
- Telamon * The Chief Resident in-charge-of Alt.Stupid.Idiots *
- Ventura, California

PONG - Telamon - "And how is our news group retard doing tonight?"

Teli - Enjoying Myself Listening to the Shortwave Radio :
49 Metre Band @ 08:00~09:00 UTC

6145 kHz - NHK Radio Japan - Nihon
http://www.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
http://www.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/englis...ave/index.html

6180 kHz - Rádio Nacional da Amazônia - Brazil
http://www.radiobras.gov.br/estatico...l_amazonia.htm

6185 kHz - CVC La Voz - Chile
http://www.cvclavoz.cl/
http://www.christianvision.com/

teli - enjoy your radios ~ RHF

Watson-Miller Shortwave Listener Receiving Antenna : Small
 

On Apr 2, 2:41*am, RHF wrote:
On Apr 1, 5:47*pm, Telamon
wrote: In article ,

- - "vangellis" wrote:
- -http://www.wsplc.com/pages/pdf/miller.pdf

- Although it is a better picture I still can't even tell
- where the coax connects.
- My best guess remains a folded dipole.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California

Telamon - You Got-a-Guess ? - Twice ? ?

Teli - I 'thought' that you were the End-All and Be-All
"Subject Matter Expert" SME ! ! !

Teli - OK Then Guess Again . . .
cause it ain't a Folded Dipole Antenna ~RHF
*.
-ps- They told you 'that' had you simple Read
the INFO that was Printed there in the PDF File.
*.
--pps-- Teli - Here is a 3rd Chance to Get-It-Right based on
the Facts. -http://www.wsplc.com/pages/pdf/miller.pdf
*.
-obtw- Teli - I have already written my KISAP Answer but...
I first want to hear your theoretically relevant reply first. ;-}
*.

Vangellis,

Here is one old Answer that was posted by "Ross"
[ archer @ top now .com ] back in 13 OCR 2005
Miller - Compact {Passive} Shortwave Receiving Antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...d7f7eac5a84f0d

~ RHF

Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving {Only} Antenna :Here is the KISAP {Keep It Simple And Practical} Evaluation
 

Vangellis,

Here is the KISAP {Keep It Simple And Practical} Evaluation
of the Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving
{Only} Antenna

Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} Receiving {Only Antenna
1.8 - 30MHz (Small Vertical Passive SW Antenna)
WM SWL ANTENNA - http://tinyurl.com/2g2hqx

NOTE - Watson Miller makes several Antennas for Scanners
and VHF and UHF usage
http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/Watson..._Antennas.html
http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/Watson..._Antennas.html
http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/Watson..._Antennas.html
+ Plus Watson does make some HF Wire Antennas
http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/WATSON..._Antennas.html
Mostly for the Amateur Radio Bands -but-
SWL-DXDL Watson Long Wire + MLB Antenna Kit
SWL-DX1 Watson SWL Long Wire Antenna Kit
WA-103 Broadband T2FD Antenna 7-30 MHz
WDP-30 Watson 1~30 MHz Receiving Dipole including Coax Feeder
Watson-Miller SW Receiving Antenna 1.8 - 30MHz (Passive)

Evaluation of the Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving
{Only} Antenna : Visual Examination and Review
of the Written Description.

Start by taking a look at the Photos and Reading the Info
presented : Here is what I 'think' can be reasonably said
about the Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL)
Receiving {Only} Antenna.
WM SWL ANT - http://www.wsplc.com/pages/pdf/miller.pdf

1 - Designed to be Broad-Banded for the Shortwave Bands
Frequency Coverage 1.8 MHz to 30 MHz.

2 - Passive Antenna Element 'appears' to be Made of Bent
Aluminum Tubing. Estimate 3/8 Inch Diameter and
Approximately 12 Feet Long with 3 Inches of separation
between the parallel tubes.

NOTE - Bent to resemble an Off-Center Folded Dipole
{Skinny Loop "Balance"} Antenna -but- IT IS NOT.
-why- Claims to use "End Loading System"
http://www.wsplc.com/pages/pdf/miller.pdf

3 - I believe that the Black Tube part is simply a PVC Pipe
Stiffener to Secure and Hold the Two Ends in Place.

3 - Uses a Balun to 'match' the Bent Antenna Element to an
SO-239 Socket for connection to a 50 Ohm Coax Cable
feed-in-line.

NOTE - Most likely using the word "Balun" cause it sells
when what they have is a Matching Transformer (UnUn).
"with Built-in Magnetic Long Wire Balun"
"the very latest High Quality Magnetic Long Wire Balun"
http://www.wsplc.com/pages/pdf/miller.pdf

4 - Height = Two Metres (2m) ~ 6 Feet 6 3/4 Inches
[ ~ 78.74 Inches ]

DO-THE-MATH : Double the 78.74 Inches to 157.5 Inches
and Subtract 13.5 Inches = 144 Inches = 12 Feet of Aluminum
3/8 Inch Tubing.

5 - Length of the Antenna Element : 12 Feet

WHAT YOU "GET" PRACTICALLY SPEAKING :
[Shortwave Radio Bands 60m ~ 19m : 5 MHz ~ 15 MHz]

1 - Start with a normal size Whip Antenna found on most
'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radios : The Whip Antenna
is about 36 Inches long {3 Feet} with a 1/4" Base Diameter
and an 1/8" End Diameter having an Average Diameter
of 3/16".

The Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving
{Only} Antenna [WM SWL Antenna] is 12 Feet with an
Average Diameter of 3/8"
Result : The Antenna Element is Four Times [12 to 3] as
Long and Twice the Diameter [ 3/8" to 3/16"] with an
RF Signal Area of 170" to 21" which is Eight Times
as large as the Whip Antenna.
Improvement Equals = 4X + 2X + 8X

2 - The Signal Capture Area of the Whip Antenna can
crudely be estimated at 36" x 1" for 36 Square Inches.
WM SWL Antenna's Signal Capture Area can be estimated
at 72" x 3" for 216 Square Inches.
Result : The Signal Capture Area improves by Six Times
[216 to 36].
Improvement Equals = 6X

3 - The Whip Antenna is located on the Radio and inside the House/
Building where the RF Signal is often much weaker
and the Man-Made Environment is saturated with the RFI
and EMF that is there.
WM SWL Antenna is located outside the House/Building
where the RF Signal is often much Stronger and away from
the Man-Made Environment inside the structure; so it is
not saturated with the RFI and EMF.
Result : The Antenna Element receives at lest Two Times
[2 to 1] the RF Signal and Half the RFI and EMF [1 to 2]
giving at least a 4 to 1 Improvement in the relative
Signal-to-Noise Ratio coming into the Radio.
Improvement Equals = 4X

4 - The Radio's Whip Antenna is an e-Probe type of Antenna
Electrically Short and smaller that a Tenth (1/10) of a
Wave-Length for the Shortwave Radio Bands.
* Most Radio's Whip Antennas are 'passive' but some are Active.
* Most Radio's Whip Antennas are 'un-tuned' but some are Tuned {Pre-
Selected}.
WM SWL Antenna is a Passive and Un-Tuned e-Probe also
-but- It is Matched to the Antenna Feed-in-Line with an UnUn
type of Matching Transformer; which also helps to de-couple
the Antenna Element from the Feed-in-Line and the Man-Made Noise from
within the Structure.
Result : The Improved Performance with the WM SWL Antenna.
Improvement Equals = 1X

SUMMARY : Adding Up the "X"s
4X + 2X + +8X 6X + 4X +1X = 25X
Then Divide-by-Ten for a 2.5 S-Unit Improvement in the
relative 'Merit' of the Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener}
(SWL) Receiving {Only} Antenna over the normal Radio's
Whip Antenna.

COMPARISON TO AN INVERTED "L" ANTENNA :
The previously mentioned Radio's Whip Antenna to a Par
EF-SWL Antenna configured as an Inverted "L" Antenna
located outside with a 15 Foot Vertical-Up-Leg and a
30 Foot Horizontal-Out-Arm.
http://www.parelectronics.com/swl_end.htm
http://www.grove-ent.com/ANT8.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/2205.html
PAR EFL-SWL Antenna, and Inverted-L Antenna Questions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...11c0ac4f084b87
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...2ff595de9fea91

1 - Wire Antenna Element is 45 Feet Long by 1/8" Diameter
with an RF Signal Area of 212" to 21" which is Ten Times
as large as the Whip Antenna.
Improvement Equals = 15X - 1.5X + 10X
2 - The Signal Capture Area of the Wire Antenna Element
can crudely be estimated at 540" x 1" for 540 Square Inches.
Improvement Equals = 15X
3 - Wire Antenna Element is Outside versus Inside
Improvement Equals = 4X
4 - Par EF-SWL Antenna is a Passive and Un-Tuned Random
Wire Antenna Element -but- It is Matched to the Antenna
Feed-in-Line with an UnUn type of Matching Transformer;
which also helps to de-couple the Antenna Element from
the Feed-in-Line and the Man-Made Noise from within
the Structure. Plus It is 'configured as an Inverted "L"
Antenna with a Ground Rod at the Base.
Improvement Equals = 2X

SUMMARY : Adding Up the "X"s
15X -1.5X + 10X +15X + 4X +2X = 44.5X
Then Divide-by-Ten for a 4.45 S-Unit Improvement in the
relative 'Merit' of the Par EF-SWL Antenna over the normal
Radio's Whip Antenna.

COMPARISON : Comparing the Par EF-SWL Antenna
to the Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL)
Receiving {Only} Antenna would show on average of a
Two (2) S-Unit Improvement in the relative 'Merit'.


and that is the way i 'see' and 'read' it - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}

Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving {Only}Anten...
 

Dahhhh,,,, Boolsheeit.Watson Miller doesn't sound like much to me.I can
stick a wire on one of my naked girlfriend's arses and pick up much
better than that.
cuhulin

Watson-Miller Shortwave {Listener} (SWL) Receiving {Only}Anten...
 

I have to watch Mississippi Outdoors on Radio tb now.Turkey Hunting in
Newton County, Bass Fishing in Smith County and Bow Hunting in Hinds
County.Melvin Tingle is the host.
cuhulin