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Minimum gauge for groud...
Dave wrote:
Michael wrote: Hiya... Been a while since I posted here. For the sake of noise suppression as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike ??? Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been conflicting. Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. If you have a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. Would you: A. Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the ground spike ??? or B. Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ??? I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the opinions here are Thanx in advance !!! Mike D. Northern NJ Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire. The mast itself is grounded. If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration. |
#2
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Minimum gauge for groud...
On Apr 15, 10:58*pm, Drakefan wrote:
Dave wrote: Michael wrote: Hiya... Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been conflicting. Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would you: A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the ground spike ??? or B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ??? I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the opinions here are Thanx in advance !!! Mike D. Northern NJ Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire. *The mast itself is grounded. - If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have - an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise - on the coax shield. Bad Coax Cable Grounding : Then run a separate Webbed Ground Wire up to the Matching Transformer. Ground "Strap" Cable http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4607.html - That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground - so you can use a short ground wire between the coax - shield and the ground rod. Yes this is 'preferred' -but- sometimes not possible to do. - This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the coax shield. Yes very true. 1 - Achieving a good 'effrective' RF Ground on {Along} the Coax Cable's Outer Shield starts with the RF Connectors at the Ends of the Coax Cable. -if- the outer Ring of the RF Connectors are not making very good all around 'contact' with 'all' {the vast majority} of the Coax Cable Shielding Wires then your Coax Cable Shielding may not be very effective {leakage} and too since only a feww of the total Wires are connected the Coax Cable Shield will be a Higher Resistance {Reactance} then is defined for the spec. This is 'why' PL-259 Plugs that are "Soldered' to Coax Cable that uses Copper Wire Braid is generally 'preferred'. 2 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Ground Rod. Note - Some will use one of these simple "Lightning Arrestors" mounted directly on a Ground Rod with Two SS Hose Clamps. 3 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Matching Transformer {Balun / MLB} -or- PL-259 Plug. TIP - Full Contact Ground Wire 'attachment' to the PL-259 Plug : * Strip-Off 3 Inches of Insulation from your Ground Wire. * Solder the 3 Inches of exposed Ground Wire take a pair of Long-Nose Pliers and Shape the Gound Wire 'around' to the Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug. Place a SS Hose Clamp over the 'formed' Ground Wire on the PL-259 Plug and tighten the Hose Clamp to secure the Ground Wire directly to the PL-259 Plug. ENSURES - A 'full' 360 Degree contact between the Ground wire and the Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug. -Note- This is done after the PL-259 Plug has been connected to what ever it is being connected to. - It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming - down from the horizontal wire. Yes very true. To some degree the Horizontal-Out-Arm can be directional : While the Vertical-Up-Leg is Omni-Directional : The 'combination' of the two generally makes the Inverted "L" Antenna an All-Around {Omni} Non-Directional Antenna. This is required for a true inverted-L antenna. Hence the name Inverted "L" and the shape of the Antenna. - The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better - signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best - to have both sections in use. On any given day & on any given frequency : Who Knows What Possible : Practically Speaking. - Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration. Restated another way : This configuration 'allows' the Matching Transformer to be placed : 1 - Very Near the Ground 2 - Mounted on the earthen Ground Rod : {Most Direct Grounding-Point and Connection} 3 - Places the "First-Ground-Path" Away-from-the-House and 'improves' Lightning Safety for the House and it's Occupants. 4 - Allows the Coax Cable to be on/under/near the surface of the ground. IN CONCLUSION - Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires : As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical. { Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen } |
#3
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Minimum gauge for groud...
On Apr 16, 4:17*am, "Michael" wrote:
"Drakefan" wrote in message news:hAgNj.3026$ob2.2352@trndny07... Dave wrote: Michael wrote: Hiya... Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been conflicting. Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would you: A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the ground spike ??? or B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ??? I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the opinions here are Thanx in advance !!! Mike D. Northern NJ Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire. The mast itself is grounded. If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration. It would seem as if this is what I'm going to try. *If I keep the balun up on the roof, the only thing I have up there that approximates a ground is the chimney. *I'll move the f***ing balun down to the 6" brass ground spike and connect it to the ground spike with a one foot #4 THHN copper cable. Then I'll run the receiving wire like an inverted L. *Now, I'll have to run about 90 feet of coax from the balun into the receiver. I would imagine that the receiver itself will be grounded and will not need its own separate ground connected so long as this antenna is plugged into it, no ??? Next question. *The height of the house is 30 feet and the width is about the same. *The inverted L receiving wire will be 30 feet up and 30 feet across. * - What type/gauge wire would be best ??? - - Thanx Again !!! - - Miike D. Mike D., "FlexWeave" Antenna Wire # 14 AWG @ 100 Feet http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire { Size -v- Durability } http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c37ac08d25d318 ~ RHF |
#4
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Minimum gauge for groud...
On Apr 16, 4:32*am, RHF wrote:
On Apr 16, 4:17*am, "Michael" wrote: "Drakefan" wrote in message news:hAgNj.3026$ob2.2352@trndny07... Dave wrote: Michael wrote: Hiya... Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been conflicting. Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would you: A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the ground spike ??? or B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ??? I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the opinions here are Thanx in advance !!! Mike D. Northern NJ Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire. The mast itself is grounded. If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration. It would seem as if this is what I'm going to try. *If I keep the balun up on the roof, the only thing I have up there that approximates a ground is the chimney. *I'll move the f***ing balun down to the 6" brass ground spike and connect it to the ground spike with a one foot #4 THHN copper cable. Then I'll run the receiving wire like an inverted L. *Now, I'll have to run about 90 feet of coax from the balun into the receiver. I would imagine that the receiver itself will be grounded and will not need its own separate ground connected so long as this antenna is plugged into it, no ??? Next question. *The height of the house is 30 feet and the width is about the same. *The inverted L receiving wire will be 30 feet up and 30 feet across. * - What type/gauge wire would be best ??? - - Thanx Again !!! - - Miike D. Mike D., "FlexWeave" Antenna Wire # 14 AWG @ 100 Feethttp://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire { Size -v- Durability }http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c37ac08d25d318 ~ RHF *.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 70 ft Stranded Bare Copper Antenna Wire 14 AWG http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ370042985304 |
#5
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Minimum gauge for groud...
Drakefan wrote:
Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire. The mast itself is grounded. If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration. While it may seem like a vertical component in the antenna system helps reception few would be able to get that vertical component long (high) enough to resonate. What you will do is complicate the phasing, and therefore the patterns of the whole antenna. If you want to bury stuff, I suggest something like this may work better than an "inverted L". http://www.bwantennas.com/ama/veeant.ama.htm I'm speaking from my own experience, which is confined to big cities and suburbs. If you live on a farm, you have more options. The vertical section will likely pick up noise from the mains wiring in the structure. If you use a good transformer and have a good independent ground at both ends of the transmission line, you should be OK. Like I said, try both ways. |
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