Dave wrote:
Michael wrote:

Hiya...

Been a while since I posted here. For the sake of noise suppression
as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas
tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a
ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching
transformer to a ground spike ??? Yes, I know there is loads of info
on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent
discussions I have had on this has been conflicting.

Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. If you have
a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE
180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. Would
you:

A. Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the
ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the
ground spike ???

or

B. Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going
up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ???


I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the
opinions here are

Thanx in advance !!!

Mike D.
Northern NJ


Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer
conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random
wire. The mast itself is grounded.

If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the
antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near
the ground allows for this configuration.

On Apr 15, 10:58*pm, Drakefan wrote:
Dave wrote:
Michael wrote:

Hiya...

Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression
as affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas
tubes, what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a
ground from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching
transformer to a ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info
on the net, but I would like some active opinions as some recent
discussions I have had on this has been conflicting.

Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have
a long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE
180, there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would
you:

A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the
ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the
ground spike ???

or

B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going
up to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ???

I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the
opinions here are

Thanx in advance !!!

Mike D.
Northern NJ

Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer
conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random
wire. *The mast itself is grounded.

- If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have
- an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise
- on the coax shield.

Bad Coax Cable Grounding : Then run a separate Webbed
Ground Wire up to the Matching Transformer.

Ground "Strap" Cable
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4607.html

- That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground
- so you can use a short ground wire between the coax
- shield and the ground rod.

Yes this is 'preferred' -but- sometimes not possible to do.

- This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the
coax shield.

Yes very true.

1 - Achieving a good 'effrective' RF Ground on {Along} the
Coax Cable's Outer Shield starts with the RF Connectors
at the Ends of the Coax Cable. -if- the outer Ring of the
RF Connectors are not making very good all around 'contact'
with 'all' {the vast majority} of the Coax Cable Shielding
Wires then your Coax Cable Shielding may not be very
effective {leakage} and too since only a feww of the total
Wires are connected the Coax Cable Shield will be a Higher
Resistance {Reactance} then is defined for the spec.
This is 'why' PL-259 Plugs that are "Soldered' to Coax Cable
that uses Copper Wire Braid is generally 'preferred'.

2 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Ground Rod.

Note - Some will use one of these simple "Lightning Arrestors"
mounted directly on a Ground Rod with Two SS Hose Clamps.

3 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Matching
Transformer {Balun / MLB} -or- PL-259 Plug.

TIP - Full Contact Ground Wire 'attachment' to the PL-259 Plug :
* Strip-Off 3 Inches of Insulation from your Ground Wire.
* Solder the 3 Inches of exposed Ground Wire take a pair of
Long-Nose Pliers and Shape the Gound Wire 'around' to the
Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug.
Place a SS Hose Clamp over the 'formed' Ground Wire on
the PL-259 Plug and tighten the Hose Clamp to secure the
Ground Wire directly to the PL-259 Plug.
ENSURES - A 'full' 360 Degree contact between the Ground
wire and the Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug.
-Note- This is done after the PL-259 Plug has been connected
to what ever it is being connected to.

- It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming
- down from the horizontal wire.

Yes very true.

To some degree the Horizontal-Out-Arm can be directional :
While the Vertical-Up-Leg is Omni-Directional : The 'combination'
of the two generally makes the Inverted "L" Antenna an
All-Around {Omni} Non-Directional Antenna.

This is required for a true inverted-L antenna.

Hence the name Inverted "L" and the shape of the Antenna.

- The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better
- signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best
- to have both sections in use.

On any given day & on any given frequency :
Who Knows What Possible : Practically Speaking.

- Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration.

Restated another way : This configuration 'allows' the Matching
Transformer to be placed :
1 - Very Near the Ground
2 - Mounted on the earthen Ground Rod :
{Most Direct Grounding-Point and Connection}
3 - Places the "First-Ground-Path" Away-from-the-House
and 'improves' Lightning Safety for the House and it's
Occupants.
4 - Allows the Coax Cable to be on/under/near the surface
of the ground.


IN CONCLUSION - Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires :
As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical.
{ Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen }

On Apr 16, 4:17*am, "Michael" wrote:
"Drakefan" wrote in message

news:hAgNj.3026$ob2.2352@trndny07...





Dave wrote:
Michael wrote:

Hiya...

Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression as
affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes,
what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground
from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a
ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I
would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on
this has been conflicting.

Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have a
long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180,
there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would you:

A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the
ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the
ground spike ???

or

B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up
to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ???

I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the
opinions here are

Thanx in advance !!!

Mike D.
Northern NJ

Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer
conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire.
The mast itself is grounded.

If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna
so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the
ground allows for this configuration.

It would seem as if this is what I'm going to try. *If I keep the balun up
on the roof, the only thing I have up there that approximates a ground is
the chimney. *I'll move the f***ing balun down to the 6" brass ground spike
and connect it to the ground spike with a one foot #4 THHN copper cable.
Then I'll run the receiving wire like an inverted L. *Now, I'll have to run
about 90 feet of coax from the balun into the receiver.

I would imagine that the receiver itself will be grounded and will not need
its own separate ground connected so long as this antenna is plugged into
it, no ???

Next question. *The height of the house is 30 feet and the width is about
the same. *The inverted L receiving wire will be 30 feet up and 30 feet
across. *

- What type/gauge wire would be best ???
-
- Thanx Again !!!
-
- Miike D.

Mike D.,

"FlexWeave" Antenna Wire # 14 AWG @ 100 Feet
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html

READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire
{ Size -v- Durability }
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c37ac08d25d318

~ RHF

On Apr 16, 4:32*am, RHF wrote:
On Apr 16, 4:17*am, "Michael" wrote:





"Drakefan" wrote in message

news:hAgNj.3026$ob2.2352@trndny07...

Dave wrote:
Michael wrote:

Hiya...

Been a while since I posted here. *For the sake of noise suppression as
affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes,
what would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground
from the radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a
ground spike ??? *Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I
would like some active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on
this has been conflicting.

Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. *If you have a
long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180,
there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. *Would you:

A. *Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the
ground spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the
ground spike ???

or

B. *Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up
to the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ???

I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the
opinions here are

Thanx in advance !!!

Mike D.
Northern NJ

Try both ways. *I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer
conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random wire.
The mast itself is grounded.

If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna
so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near the
ground allows for this configuration.

It would seem as if this is what I'm going to try. *If I keep the balun up
on the roof, the only thing I have up there that approximates a ground is
the chimney. *I'll move the f***ing balun down to the 6" brass ground spike
and connect it to the ground spike with a one foot #4 THHN copper cable.
Then I'll run the receiving wire like an inverted L. *Now, I'll have to run
about 90 feet of coax from the balun into the receiver.

I would imagine that the receiver itself will be grounded and will not need
its own separate ground connected so long as this antenna is plugged into
it, no ???

Next question. *The height of the house is 30 feet and the width is about
the same. *The inverted L receiving wire will be 30 feet up and 30 feet
across. *

- What type/gauge wire would be best ???
-
- Thanx Again !!!
-
- Miike D.

Mike D.,

"FlexWeave" Antenna Wire # 14 AWG @ 100 Feethttp://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html

READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire
{ Size -v- Durability }http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c37ac08d25d318

~ RHF
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

70 ft Stranded Bare Copper Antenna Wire 14 AWG
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ370042985304

Drakefan wrote:



Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the
outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the
random wire. The mast itself is grounded.

If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the
antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near
the ground allows for this configuration.

While it may seem like a vertical component in the antenna system helps
reception few would be able to get that vertical component long (high)
enough to resonate. What you will do is complicate the phasing, and
therefore the patterns of the whole antenna. If you want to bury stuff,
I suggest something like this may work better than an "inverted L".

http://www.bwantennas.com/ama/veeant.ama.htm

I'm speaking from my own experience, which is confined to big cities and
suburbs. If you live on a farm, you have more options.

The vertical section will likely pick up noise from the mains wiring in
the structure. If you use a good transformer and have a good
independent ground at both ends of the transmission line, you should be
OK. Like I said, try both ways.