On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Heard about it for the first time today 11 July 2008 while
Listening to the AM Talking Radio : The Picken's Plan
http://www.pickensplan.com/

How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?
http://www.pickensplan.com/about/

About - T. Boone Pickens, Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.

The Pickens Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boon...e_Pickens_Plan


yes - i heard it on the radio ~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 12, 1:25*am, RHF wrote:
-
- Heard about it for the first time today 11 July 2008 while
- Listening to the AM Talking Radio : The Picken's Plan
- http://www.pickensplan.com/
-
- How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?
- http://www.pickensplan.com/about/
-
- About - T. Boone Pickens, Jr.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.
-
- The Pickens Plan
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Plan
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boon...e_Pickens_Plan
-
- yes - i heard it on the radio ~ RHF
- *.

Dave -asks- So you agree that more drilling won't help ?

RHF Replies : Dave - No !

More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
-versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

CONCEPTS :
* U.S. Energy Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Energy_Independence
* Set America Free Coalition
http://www.setamericafree.org/
* North American Energy Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence
Mexico & Canada & The USofA producing their own Energy

DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE :

1a - Drill for Today's Needs right here in the USA
1b - Better Cafa Standards for American Cars and Trucks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy

2 - The Pickens Plan for the new Sources of Energy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boon...e_Pickens_Plan

3 - Clean Coal Technology & Coal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_coal_technology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#World_coal_reserves

4 - Expanded Hydro & Solar & Wind Power Generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydro_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_Power

5 - The Hybrid Car and Alternative Fuels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_car
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_fuels

6 - Fuel Cell Technology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

7 - Improved Nation Wide Rail Transportion System
for Freight and Passengers
http://www.aar.org/PubCommon/Documen...y/Overview.pdf

8 . . . and a lot more tbd ~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

RHF wrote:


RHF Replies : Dave - No !

More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
-versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices. Period.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 12, 10:14*am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
-*Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.
* Mandatory Car Pooling : Four Occupants per Vehicle
is a Toll Free Ride.
* Federal Surcharges of $3~$5 for Single Occupant
Vehicles using Toll Roads and Bridges.
* Double the Traffic Fines for Single Occupant Vehicles.
* Alternative Odd-Even Gas Fill-Up Days
* 15 Gallon Limit on Fill-Ups
* No High School Students Driving to School
{Close High School Student Parking Lots}
* Uniform Annual Federal CAFE Standards Tax
on All Cars and Trucks collected by the States
as part of the Annual Vehicle Registration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy
40 MPG and above Tax Free and an Annual Tax
of $10 per MPG below 40 MPG
-Examples-
25 MPG Car ~ $150
15 MPG SUV ~ $250

-Note- Big Rig {Tractor & Trailer} Freight Exception
for all the above.

dave - ok that's it for now - cause . . .
i am running out of gas ;-} ~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.


Conservation does not result in independence.

There is not enough oil in the USA to make us "independent". Let the
Chinese have the muck, we can go virtually all-electric (including cars)
within a decade. Now would be a good time, as the economy's in the
****ter anyway.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.


Conservation does not result in independence.

There is not enough oil in the USA to make us "independent". Let the
Chinese have the muck, we can go virtually all-electric (including cars)
within a decade. Now would be a good time, as the economy's in the
****ter anyway.


There is more oil just off shore of the US than all of OPEC combined.
Off California it's being pushed through the silt on the ocean floor and
floating to the surface at Oily Point...named by the native Indians more
than 400 years ago.

There is so much very old petroleum under the Gulf it's pushing
through the silt and pooling on the Gulf floor.

Off Florida, there is more oil under the ocean floor that the Chinese
are setting up outside of our territorial waters to begin drilling in a
single deposit that our own facilities can access just a few miles offshore.

Yes, we have the oil.

As for electric cars...a great idea that's already seeing resistance
in several states. Wisconsin has banned them in 12 counties. With more
counties on the way. And several states are looking at placing enormous
restrictions on their us. California is one of them. Illinois is
another. Not just the NEV's that are starting to hit the market, but
electrics in general.

Why? To protect the tax stream. Wisconsin is the state that tells gas
station owners what they must charge for a gallon of gasoline, and
blocks discount promotions because the lower price reduces tax collection.

Conservation will not put a single gallon of gas on the market at a
lower price. Nor will it reduce demand, prices, or shortages.

Electric is definitely the way to go. I have no problem agreeing
there. Tesla has proven the technology exists to make a practical, if
expensive, electric car with good performance. But politics in these
matters are another matter.

As long as politicians have a say, electric cars are going to remain
the stuff of dreams. Get them out of the way, and a lot of things can
change.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

John Barnard wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 12, 1:14*pm, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

RHF Replies : Dave - No !

More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
-versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices. *Period.

Agree.. Don't Drive if you don't have to.

ride a friggin bike fer crist sake,

Buy 2700 K Compact Florescent Bulbe

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...99.html?page=6

- and immediatly Drill Off shore..

tow a rig out there, stick a pipe down

up comes Gasoline

( & Then Exxon Sells it to The Highest Bidder )

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

D Peter Maus wrote:


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.


What about CO2? What about the air? It's like we're squeezing our eyes
shut and flooring it...

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Dave wrote:

D Peter Maus wrote:


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.


What about CO2?

You expel CO2 (besides other noxious gases), please Rickets, stop breathing!

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Bob wrote:

The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen

Not quite true. The electricity used by an electric car does -not- "come
from regen" [erative braking]. This is a clever technique to recapture a
bit of energy when braking. To believe otherwise is akin to believing in
perpetual motion. The vast majority of the energy an electric car uses
is from either a power plant [the 'grid'] or from the on-board gasoline
tank that powers an internal combustion engine/generator.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired.

True, but the good news is, instead of trying to control pollution at
-millions- of individual cars, you are controlling pollution at just
hundreds or thousands of power plants.

Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...

Yup...nuclear is tough because the waste is so dangerous and lasts so
long. Now coal...well, that might not be too bad because you are working
with just hundreds or thousands of power plants; and scrubber and
precipitator technology has come a long way. It's waaay easier and safer
to store fly ash rather than nuclear waste.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:

D Peter Maus wrote:


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.


What about CO2? What about the air? It's like we're squeezing our eyes
shut and flooring it...

What about the crap you breath into your lungs on a regular basis? All
that tar, which is in far greater amounts that tobacco just to name one
thing Mr. Pipe smoker.

You keep this up and you will have to have carbon credits just to smoke
your dope.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

D Peter Maus wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.


I assume that you've never been out to the tar sands ;). And if you need
to go out of your way to exploit something then you are still addicted
to it. And some may question the wisdom of having a oil rigs in an area
of considerable tectonic activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Q...rs_1963-98.png

JB

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 10:16*am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Bob wrote:
The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen

Not quite true. The electricity used by an electric car does -not- "come
from regen" [erative braking]. This is a clever technique to recapture a
bit of energy when braking. To believe otherwise is akin to believing in
perpetual motion. The vast majority of the energy an electric car uses
is from either a power plant [the 'grid'] or from the on-board gasoline
tank that powers an internal combustion engine/generator.

That's why I said "in hybrids" when I mentioned regen...

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss and then lose
more in line losses. The emmisions in today's ulev cars are getting
down there. I guess I'd just like some common sense inserted into the
discussion and some real energy balance calculations made to help
clarify things. It seems that the politicians and environmentalists
aren't too interested in other scientific input.

Bob

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 7:16*am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Bob wrote:
The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen

Not quite true. The electricity used by an electric car does -not- "come
from regen" [erative braking]. This is a clever technique to recapture a
bit of energy when braking. To believe otherwise is akin to believing in
perpetual motion. The vast majority of the energy an electric car uses
is from either a power plant [the 'grid'] or from the on-board gasoline
tank that powers an internal combustion engine/generator.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired.

True, but the good news is, instead of trying to control pollution at
-millions- of individual cars, you are controlling pollution at just
hundreds or thousands of power plants.

Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...

Yup...nuclear is tough because the waste is so dangerous and lasts so
long. Now coal...well, that might not be too bad because you are working
with just hundreds or thousands of power plants; and scrubber and
precipitator technology has come a long way. It's waaay easier and safer
to store fly ash rather than nuclear waste.

Variable Demand Generators Automobile Gas Engines
-versus- Fixed Load Generators Electric Power Plants
and Constant Speed Gas Engines.

Automobile Gas Engines are Variable Demand Generators
and as such as the Engine Accelerates and Decelerates
they Polute more and are less Efficient then when they
are run at a Fix Speed and Load.

Fixed Load Generators Electric Power Plants and Constant
Speed Gas Engines do not constantly accelerate and
decelerate; so then can be Engineered to have less Polution
and better Efficiency for their designed output.

All Electric Cars from an Air Polution perspective Polute Less;
while the amount of Fossil Fuels that they consume to produce
the Electricity versus a Gas Engine Car may be about Equal.

NOTE - Gas Engine Cars use Imported Oil versus Electric Power
Plants can use All-American Hyrdo and Coal; and North American
Natual Gas {Just Say No To Imported Oil}; and Re-Newable
Wind and Solar.

Hybrid Cars with a Dual-Mode Power Plant using Gas and
Electric are proven to be Less Poluting and More Fuel Efficient.

A Fuel Cell Powered Vehicle would be even Less Poluting
and More Fuel Efficient then a Hybrid Car.

TIP - Where and when 'possible' Walking is better for you
then Driving in any Vehicle.

Walk for Your Health and a Long Life. ~ RHF
{Walk A Mile A Day To Save The Planet and Yourself}

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

RHF wrote:

On Jul 13, 7:16 am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Bob wrote:
The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen

Not quite true. The electricity used by an electric car does -not- "come
from regen" [erative braking]. This is a clever technique to recapture a
bit of energy when braking. To believe otherwise is akin to believing in
perpetual motion. The vast majority of the energy an electric car uses
is from either a power plant [the 'grid'] or from the on-board gasoline
tank that powers an internal combustion engine/generator.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired.

True, but the good news is, instead of trying to control pollution at
-millions- of individual cars, you are controlling pollution at just
hundreds or thousands of power plants.

Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...

Yup...nuclear is tough because the waste is so dangerous and lasts so
long. Now coal...well, that might not be too bad because you are working
with just hundreds or thousands of power plants; and scrubber and
precipitator technology has come a long way. It's waaay easier and safer
to store fly ash rather than nuclear waste.

Variable Demand Generators Automobile Gas Engines
-versus- Fixed Load Generators Electric Power Plants
and Constant Speed Gas Engines.

Automobile Gas Engines are Variable Demand Generators
and as such as the Engine Accelerates and Decelerates
they Polute more and are less Efficient then when they
are run at a Fix Speed and Load.

Fixed Load Generators Electric Power Plants and Constant
Speed Gas Engines do not constantly accelerate and
decelerate; so then can be Engineered to have less Polution
and better Efficiency for their designed output.

All Electric Cars from an Air Polution perspective Polute Less;
while the amount of Fossil Fuels that they consume to produce
the Electricity versus a Gas Engine Car may be about Equal.

NOTE - Gas Engine Cars use Imported Oil versus Electric Power
Plants can use All-American Hyrdo and Coal; and North American
Natual Gas {Just Say No To Imported Oil}; and Re-Newable
Wind and Solar.

Hybrid Cars with a Dual-Mode Power Plant using Gas and
Electric are proven to be Less Poluting and More Fuel Efficient.

A Fuel Cell Powered Vehicle would be even Less Poluting
and More Fuel Efficient then a Hybrid Car.

TIP - Where and when 'possible' Walking is better for you
then Driving in any Vehicle.

Walk for Your Health and a Long Life. ~ RHF
{Walk A Mile A Day To Save The Planet and Yourself}

Uh, the planet doesn't need 'saving'. It's been taking care of itself for far,
far longer than we've been here, and will most likely be taking care of itself
long after we're gone.

To think otherwise is delusional.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 12, 10:54*pm, John Barnard wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

- - - You are wrong. *Raising prices forces conservation
- - - just as well as some stupid rule.

Raising Prices In-and-of-Itself Through Taxes and Fees :
IS A TAX HIKE and a Rip-Off of the Consumer [.]

Raising Prices Through Taxes and Fees -and- Providing
Incentives for 'other' Activities to Reduce Consumption :
IS GOOD ENERGY POLICY.

- - Conservation does not result in independence.

However it does result in 'less' Dependence.

- Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.

Inter -versus- Intra
http://www.bartleby.com/68/58/3358.html

All-American Intra-Dependence and North American Energy
Intra-Dependence is far better than Global {Imported Foreign
Oil} Inter-Dependence.

~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 6:04*am, Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

* Conservation does not result in independence.

*Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.

* *Not if you own the resource.

What about CO2? *What about the air? *It's like we're squeezing our eyes
shut and flooring it...

Dave It's Time For You To Get Out And Walk !

It Will Clear Your Head and Aid Your Health .

live well and be healthy ~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 11:40*am, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,

*Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

* Conservation does not result in independence.

*Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.

* *Not if you own the resource.

What about CO2? *What about the air? *It's like we're squeezing our eyes
shut and flooring it...

What about the crap you breath into your lungs on a regular basis? All
that tar, which is in far greater amounts that tobacco just to name one
thing Mr. Pipe smoker.

You keep this up and you will have to have carbon credits just to smoke
your dope.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Yeah Dave - Pot Smoking Causes Air Polution [.]

Just Say No To Second Hand Pot Smoke ~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 12:08*pm, John Barnard wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
John Barnard wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. *Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.

* Conservation does not result in independence.

*Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.

* *Not if you own the resource.

I assume that you've never been out to the tar sands ;). And if you need
to go out of your way to exploit something then you are still addicted
to it. And some may question the wisdom of having a oil rigs in an area
of considerable tectonic activity.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Q...rs_1963-98.png
-
- JB

Mother Nature Says : There Is A Whole Lot Of Shaking Going On !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yRdDnrB5kM

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 5:47*am, harvey wrote:
On Jul 12, 1:14*pm, Dave wrote:

RHF wrote:

RHF Replies : Dave - No !

More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
-versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices. *Period.

Agree.. Don't Drive if you don't have to.

ride a friggin bike fer crist sake,

Buy 2700 K *Compact Florescent Bulbe

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...vement/4215199...

- - and immediatly Drill Off shore..
-
- tow a rig out there, stick a pipe down
-
- up comes Gasoline
-
- ( & Then Exxon Sells it to The Highest Bidder )

First Law of All American Energy Independence :
No Selling of American Oil Abroad [.]

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

On Jul 13, 6:59*am, Bob wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:44*am, D Peter Maus wrote:





Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.

- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?

-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.

Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]

The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.

OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.

NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.

RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.

The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.

You are wrong. *Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.

* Conservation does not result in independence.

There is not enough oil in the USA to make us "independent". *Let the
Chinese have the muck, we can go virtually all-electric (including cars)
within a decade. *Now would be a good time, as the economy's in the
****ter anyway.

* *There is more oil just off shore of the US than all of OPEC combined.
Off California it's being pushed through the silt on the ocean floor and
floating to the surface at Oily Point...named by the native Indians more
than 400 years ago.

* *There is so much very old petroleum under the Gulf it's pushing
through the silt and pooling on the Gulf floor.

* *Off Florida, there is more oil under the ocean floor that the Chinese
are setting up outside of our territorial waters to begin drilling in a
single deposit that our own facilities can access just a few miles offshore.

* *Yes, we have the oil.

* *As for electric cars...a great idea that's already seeing resistance
in several states. Wisconsin has banned them in 12 counties. With more
counties on the way. And several states are looking at placing enormous
restrictions on their us. California is one of them. Illinois is
another. Not just the NEV's that are starting to hit the market, but
electrics in general.

* *Why? To protect the tax stream. Wisconsin is the state that tells gas
station owners what they must charge for a gallon of gasoline, and
blocks discount promotions because the lower price reduces tax collection.

* *Conservation will not put a single gallon of gas on the market at a
lower price. Nor will it reduce demand, prices, or shortages.

* *Electric is definitely the way to go. I have no problem agreeing
there. Tesla has proven the technology exists to make a practical, if
expensive, electric car with good performance. But politics in these
matters are another matter.

* *As long as politicians have a say, electric cars are going to remain
the stuff of dreams. Get them out of the way, and a lot of things can
change.

The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen and that type of vehicle should have
been further tax "incentivised" and long term mandated by now.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired.

-*Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...
-
- Bob

Nuclear may be to Un-Safe to Use -but- It is Clean
-wrt- Air Polution.

Clean Coal when properly used is as Clean as Oil and Gas.

Co-Generation using Reclaimed Manufacturing Heat
can meet 15% of American's Electric Energy Needs.

Improved Hydro by Adding 100 Feet to most of the
Existing Dams in the USA could add to American's
Electric Energy Needs; plus better Flood Control;
and More Water for Agriculture and Humans.

~ RHF

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please
realize that *nothing* is lossless. The point I was trying to emphasize
about electric vehicles is that you are centralizing pollution control
at a (relatively) few power plants rather than over millions of cars
with IC engines.

...and then lose more in line losses.

Not as much as you might think, at least not since AC won out over DC
transmission around the turn of the last century (Bless you Mr. Tesla,
Mr. Westinghouse). Power is sent at extremely high voltages (so lower
current) to minimize the I squared R (power) loss. And once again, the
whole point is centralization, acceptable losses notwithstanding.

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration has
been notorious for ignoring science.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce OurDependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Billy Burpelson wrote:

Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please
realize that *nothing* is lossless. The point I was trying to emphasize
about electric vehicles is that you are centralizing pollution control
at a (relatively) few power plants rather than over millions of cars
with IC engines.

...and then lose more in line losses.

Not as much as you might think, at least not since AC won out over DC
transmission around the turn of the last century (Bless you Mr. Tesla,
Mr. Westinghouse). Power is sent at extremely high voltages (so lower
current) to minimize the I squared R (power) loss. And once again, the
whole point is centralization, acceptable losses notwithstanding.

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration has
been notorious for ignoring science.

Yep, Bill Clinton was well known for being interested in science. :-)

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39902.html

Produce more cars

sell them to China and India and Saudi Arabia

they all need gasoline

Price goes up.






On Jul 12, 4:25 am, RHF wrote:
Heard about it for the first time today 11 July 2008 while
Listening to the AM Talking Radio : The Picken's Planhttp://www.pickensplan.com/

How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?http://www.pickensplan.com/about/

About - T. Boone Pickens, Jr.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.

The Pickens Planhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Planhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.#The_Pickens_Plan

yes - i heard it on the radio ~ RHF
.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our DependenceonForeign Oil ?
 

Bob wrote:

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Billy Burpelson wrote:

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration
has been notorious for ignoring science.

dxAce wrote:

Yep, Bill Clinton was well known for being interested in science. :-)

Um, that wouldn't have been the scientific study he did on cigar
flavorings, was it?

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Billy Burpelson wrote:
...

Yup...nuclear is tough because the waste is so dangerous and lasts so
long. Now coal...well, that might not be too bad because you are working
with just hundreds or thousands of power plants; and scrubber and
precipitator technology has come a long way. It's waaay easier and safer
to store fly ash rather than nuclear waste.

Coal plants release more radiation than nukes.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:

Telamon wrote:


What about the crap you breath into your lungs on a regular basis? All
that tar, which is in far greater amounts that tobacco just to name one
thing Mr. Pipe smoker.

You keep this up and you will have to have carbon credits just to smoke
your dope.


You're insane.

I'm afraid that's your department.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:


Conservation does not result in independence.

Whereas resource exploitation increases dependence.



Not if you own the resource.


What about CO2? What about the air? It's like we're squeezing our eyes
shut and flooring it...


.04% of the atmosphere. Against...well, the primary greenhouse gas in
the atmosphere is water. The proportions make the claims more than
preposterous.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Bob wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:44 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.
- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?
-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.
Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]
The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.
OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.
NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.
RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.
The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.
You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.
Conservation does not result in independence.
There is not enough oil in the USA to make us "independent". Let the
Chinese have the muck, we can go virtually all-electric (including cars)
within a decade. Now would be a good time, as the economy's in the
****ter anyway.
There is more oil just off shore of the US than all of OPEC combined.
Off California it's being pushed through the silt on the ocean floor and
floating to the surface at Oily Point...named by the native Indians more
than 400 years ago.

There is so much very old petroleum under the Gulf it's pushing
through the silt and pooling on the Gulf floor.

Off Florida, there is more oil under the ocean floor that the Chinese
are setting up outside of our territorial waters to begin drilling in a
single deposit that our own facilities can access just a few miles offshore.

Yes, we have the oil.

As for electric cars...a great idea that's already seeing resistance
in several states. Wisconsin has banned them in 12 counties. With more
counties on the way. And several states are looking at placing enormous
restrictions on their us. California is one of them. Illinois is
another. Not just the NEV's that are starting to hit the market, but
electrics in general.

Why? To protect the tax stream. Wisconsin is the state that tells gas
station owners what they must charge for a gallon of gasoline, and
blocks discount promotions because the lower price reduces tax collection.

Conservation will not put a single gallon of gas on the market at a
lower price. Nor will it reduce demand, prices, or shortages.

Electric is definitely the way to go. I have no problem agreeing
there. Tesla has proven the technology exists to make a practical, if
expensive, electric car with good performance. But politics in these
matters are another matter.

As long as politicians have a say, electric cars are going to remain
the stuff of dreams. Get them out of the way, and a lot of things can
change.

The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen and that type of vehicle should have
been further tax "incentivised" and long term mandated by now.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired. Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...

Bob

Like I said...as long as there are politicians involved...

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

harvey wrote:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39902.html

Produce more cars

sell them to China and India and Saudi Arabia

they all need gasoline

Price goes up.


There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:

harvey wrote:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39902.html

Produce more cars

sell them to China and India and Saudi Arabia

they all need gasoline

Price goes up.


There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?


mike


--
Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage, this filter
blocks all postings from Gmail, Google Mail and Google Groups.

http://improve-usenet.org/

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependence on Foreign Oil ?
 

"Billy Burpelson" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.

On-the-Radio : The Picken's Plan - How We Can Reduce Our Dependenceon Foreign Oil ?
 

Brenda Ann wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...
True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.


'Lost to the process we desired' or 'Inadvertently misdirected' would
mean the same thing that BB meant.


mike (and entropy continues to increase) II

--
Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage, this filter
blocks all postings from Gmail, Google Mail and Google Groups.

http://improve-usenet.org/

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

In article CrBek.4457$7%6.2579@edtnps82, m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.
I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10
I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.


If both Peter and Dave said the same thing, why is one of them a nut case?


mike

--
Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
this filter blocks all postings with a Gmail,
Google Mail or Google Groups address.

http://improve-usenet.org/

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

m II wrote:
Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.
I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10
I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?
Peter is correct about that.


If both Peter and Dave said the same thing, why is one of them a nut case?




What makes you think only one of us is?

Oil won't go above $360 / Barrell
 

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.

And I'm not correct about the imagined shortage? We outsource
everything else; why not outsource the environmental degradation of
crude oil production?