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Dave[_18_] November 22nd 08 01:40 PM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung wrote:


The simple fact is that Bush has been at least as good as both of his
immediate predecessors.



"...as good as..." ???

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

He has done way more harm to the Constitution and has completely
destroyed any international goodwill, save for a few despotic regimes
scattered around the planet, we may have once enjoyed.

Then there's the whole deal with the economy in the ditch...

David Hartung November 22nd 08 01:47 PM

A Brave New America
 
Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:


The simple fact is that Bush has been at least as good as both of his
immediate predecessors.



"...as good as..." ???

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

He has done way more harm to the Constitution and has completely
destroyed any international goodwill, save for a few despotic regimes
scattered around the planet, we may have once enjoyed.

Then there's the whole deal with the economy in the ditch...


George W Bush has done no more damage to our Constitution than did his
Dad, or Bill Clinton.

As to "international goodwill" Any "goodwill" Bush has cost us, has been
lost because Bush has had the backbone to put our national interests
ahead of the interests of others. Since this is part of what he is
supposed to do as our president, I see no reason why I should worry
about any "goodwill" that has been lost.

Dave[_18_] November 22nd 08 02:08 PM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:


The simple fact is that Bush has been at least as good as both of his
immediate predecessors.



"...as good as..." ???

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

He has done way more harm to the Constitution and has completely
destroyed any international goodwill, save for a few despotic regimes
scattered around the planet, we may have once enjoyed.

Then there's the whole deal with the economy in the ditch...


George W Bush has done no more damage to our Constitution than did his
Dad, or Bill Clinton.

As to "international goodwill" Any "goodwill" Bush has cost us, has been
lost because Bush has had the backbone to put our national interests
ahead of the interests of others. Since this is part of what he is
supposed to do as our president, I see no reason why I should worry
about any "goodwill" that has been lost.



"...backbone..."??? WTF?

It takes no courage to kill by remote control and to send other peoples'
kids to die for the Empire. A courageous president would tell his
people that the USA must learn to live within its means and that the
country must not oppress people around the world because we need their
resources for our machines.

David Hartung November 22nd 08 02:28 PM

A Brave New America
 
Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:


The simple fact is that Bush has been at least as good as both of
his immediate predecessors.


"...as good as..." ???

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

He has done way more harm to the Constitution and has completely
destroyed any international goodwill, save for a few despotic regimes
scattered around the planet, we may have once enjoyed.

Then there's the whole deal with the economy in the ditch...


George W Bush has done no more damage to our Constitution than did his
Dad, or Bill Clinton.

As to "international goodwill" Any "goodwill" Bush has cost us, has
been lost because Bush has had the backbone to put our national
interests ahead of the interests of others. Since this is part of what
he is supposed to do as our president, I see no reason why I should
worry about any "goodwill" that has been lost.



"...backbone..."??? WTF?

It takes no courage to kill by remote control and to send other peoples'
kids to die for the Empire. A courageous president would tell his
people that the USA must learn to live within its means and that the
country must not oppress people around the world because we need their
resources for our machines.


Oppress?

You really need to learn what words mean.

[email protected] November 22nd 08 03:12 PM

A Brave New America
 
In 1989 I bought my big old 1978 Dodge van from a guy by the last name
of Hartung.
cuhulin


RHF November 22nd 08 04:24 PM

Try Something Better : Simply Post An ON-TOPIC Shortwave RadioRelated Item Yourself
 
On Nov 21, 10:40*pm, "Hall Monitor" wrote:

- It's all Tela-turds fault.....

Hall Monitor,

D'Oh! - If You Post To It : It's Your Fault Too !

Good : Read Telamon -or- Ignore Telamon

Try Something Better : Simply Post An ON-TOPIC
Shortwave Radio Related Item Yourself.

un-moderately yours ~ RHF

No Name November 23rd 08 03:51 PM

A Brave New America
 
§tarkiller© writes:

§tarkiller© On 21 Nov 2008 17:51:06 -0500, wrote:
David Hartung writes:


David SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
now this is funny, bush has completely destroyed the constitution,
greed is rampant, bush singlehandedly destroyed the u.s. economy,
and you're scared of the demcorats?
you should be scared of the dumbass nazi neocon republican scum
save america, kill a neocon today


David If you will look around you, you will realize that your claim is
David completely without merit.

David Bush has destroyed nothing.

He has come very close to destroying Iraq.
By complete incompetence.


§tarkiller© Yeah yeah sure sure, guess that's why so many less people are dying in
§tarkiller© Iraq today than did under your hero Saddam yes?

Far more people die today than under Saddam. What could have
possibly made you think otherwise?

Iraq is in the control of political parties created in Iran, and
allied with Iran.

Recently we made allies with unreformed Baathists in the Sunni areas,
and have armed them. Now there are three Iraqi armies in Iraq --- the
Peshmurga (Kurds), the offical Iraqi Army (Shiite and allied with Iran),
and the new Sunni awakening army.

When we leave, these three armies will have a full scale war.

§tarkiller© Guess that's also why the Iraq oil business is booming raking in
§tarkiller© billions to Iraq.

Billions to the pro-Iranian Shiite parties.

§tarkiller© Guess that's also why we see so few reports of fighting and deaths
§tarkiller© these days compares to just a couple of years ago as well yes?

There is a short term reduction in violence, and the Baathists have pretty
much expelled al Queda. But the nation is ruined.

He has destroyed our prestige in the world.


§tarkiller© No, people like Soros, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and few choice
§tarkiller© others traveling all over the world badmouthing the US to foreign
§tarkiller© nations did a lot of that, along with liberals like yoursel that

No, it was Bush arrogance and incompetence that did it.

Very sad.

§tarkiller© started screaming how horrible the US was even before Bush took office

He is really one of the worst presidents of
all time.


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.








§tarkiller© Regards


§tarkiller© §tarkiller©








§tarkiller© 'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
§tarkiller© big enough to take away everything you have.'

§tarkiller© "You cannot enrich the poor by impoverishing the rich."


--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)

Bob Campbell November 23rd 08 04:06 PM

A Brave New America
 
wrote in message
...
Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.


Being incompetent is not a crime. If it was, then 75% of politicians,
school teachers and telephone "product support" people would be in jail.


Dave[_18_] November 23rd 08 04:09 PM

A Brave New America
 
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.

Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was Jimmy
Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in Afghanistan.
(Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)

[email protected] November 23rd 08 04:30 PM

A Brave New America
 
Once in a very, very, very blue Moon I am on topic.
www.wireservices.com

The radio and antenna stuff.
cuhulin


RHF November 23rd 08 06:00 PM

(OT) : After America Withdraws : The Up-Coming Civil War in Iraq :What Will Obama Do ?
 
On Nov 23, 7:51*am, wrote:
§tarkiller© *writes:


* *§tarkiller© On 21 Nov 2008 17:51:06 -0500, wrote:
* * David Hartung writes:
* *
* *David SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
* * now this is funny, bush has completely destroyed the constitution,
* * greed is rampant, bush singlehandedly destroyed the u.s. economy,
* * and you're scared of the demcorats?
* * you should be scared of the dumbass nazi neocon republican scum
* * save america, kill a neocon today
* *
* *David If you will look around you, you will realize that your claim is
* *David completely without merit.
* *
* *David Bush has destroyed nothing.
* *
* * He has come very close to destroying Iraq.
* * By complete incompetence.

* *§tarkiller© Yeah yeah sure sure, guess that's why so many less people are dying in
* *§tarkiller© Iraq today than did under your hero Saddam yes?

Far more people die today than under Saddam. *What could have
possibly made you think otherwise?

Iraq is in the control of political parties created in Iran, and
allied with Iran.

Recently we made allies with unreformed Baathists in the Sunni *areas,
and have armed them. *Now there are three Iraqi armies in Iraq --- the
Peshmurga (Kurds), the offical Iraqi Army (Shiite and allied with Iran),


- and the new Sunni awakening army.

"Sunni Awakening Army" sort of sounds like :
Born Again Christians and Onward Christian Soldiers
all rolled into one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...nic_map416.gif

- When we leave, these three armies
- will have a full scale war.

Note - Iraq was a Post Colonial* 'manufactured
Nation designed to fail.
* First the Ottomans and then the British

Then Turkey will move in from the North
and Iran will move in from the East.
http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/...ligions_sm.jpg

* *§tarkiller© Guess that's also why the Iraq oil business is booming raking in
* *§tarkiller© billions to Iraq.

Billions to the pro-Iranian Shiite parties.

* *§tarkiller© Guess that's also why we see so few reports of fighting and deaths
* *§tarkiller© these days compares to just a couple of years ago as well yes?

There is a short term reduction in violence, and the Baathists have pretty
much expelled al Queda. *But the nation is ruined.

* * He has destroyed our prestige in the world.

* *§tarkiller© No, people like Soros, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and few choice
* *§tarkiller© others traveling all over the world badmouthing the US to foreign
* *§tarkiller© nations did a lot of that, along with liberals like yoursel that

No, it was Bush arrogance and incompetence that did it.

Very sad.

* *§tarkiller© started screaming how horrible the US was even before Bush took office
* *
* * He is really one of the worst presidents of
* * all time.

* *§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced the Carter
* *§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. *Carter's ineptness pales next to Bush's.

* *§tarkiller© Not to worry though. *It is likely you may see another Carteresque
* *§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. *I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush. *

* *§tarkiller© Regards

* *§tarkiller© §tarkiller©

* *§tarkiller© 'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
* *§tarkiller© big enough to take away everything you have.'

* *§tarkiller© "You cannot enrich the poor by impoverishing the rich."

--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)



RHF November 23rd 08 06:03 PM

(OT) : Telephone "Product Support" People - Residing in a Jail NearYou
 
On Nov 23, 8:06*am, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Read some history. *I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.


Being incompetent is not a crime. *If it was, then 75% of politicians,
school teachers and


- telephone "product support" people would be in jail.

Note some Telephone "Product Support" People
are in-fact 'residences' of Prisons.


[email protected] November 24th 08 01:41 AM

more off topic garbage by rhf aka Retired Halfassed Fool
 
Shortwave radio enthusiasts have a right to enjoy a newsgroup
which was established for them and is supposed to be dedicated to
shortwave radio information.

And they have a right to do so without wading through all the off
topic garbage you post and it isn't incumbent upon them to filter
obnoxious morons like you out, also many don't have the capability to
do so.

Start behaving like a responsible adult and filter yourself by posting
your nonsense in the appropriate newsgroups.


David Hartung November 24th 08 01:43 AM

A Brave New America
 
Dave wrote:
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced
the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see another
Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.

Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was Jimmy
Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in Afghanistan.
(Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)


Your source for this theory?

CharlesTheCurmudgeon November 24th 08 01:59 AM

more off topic garbage by rhf aka Retired Halfassed Fool
 

wrote in message
...
Shortwave radio enthusiasts have a right to enjoy a newsgroup
which was established for them and is supposed to be dedicated to
shortwave radio information.

And they have a right to do so without wading through all the off
topic garbage you post and it isn't incumbent upon them to filter
obnoxious morons like you out, also many don't have the capability to
do so.

Start behaving like a responsible adult and filter yourself by posting
your nonsense in the appropriate newsgroups.


Dear dxacer

As far as I can see, he IS posting it in the appropriate groups.
rec.radio.shortwave I belonged to many years ago and it was about as useful
as tits on a boarhog. He is posting to alt.politics.republcans. And so
are you. Physician heal thyself.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon



Dave[_18_] November 24th 08 02:10 AM

A Brave New America
 
Bob Campbell wrote:
wrote in message
...
Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.


Being incompetent is not a crime. If it was, then 75% of politicians,
school teachers and telephone "product support" people would be in jail.


Caustic indifference and mean-spiritedness do not equal incompetence.

Dave[_18_] November 24th 08 02:20 AM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced
the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to
Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see
another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.

Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was Jimmy
Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in
Afghanistan. (Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)


Your source for this theory?


Robert Gates, current SecDef.

The CIA begins covert action against the Communist government in
Afghanistan, which is closely tied to the Soviet Union. Some time this
year, the CIA begins training militants in Pakistan and beaming radio
propaganda into Afghanistan. By April 1979, US officials are meeting
with opponents of the Afghan government to determine their needs. [Blum,
1995, pp. 344] Robert Gates, who will become CIA Director in the early
1990s, will later recall that in a meeting on March 30, 1979, Under
Secretary of Defense Walter Slocumbe wonders aloud whether there is
“value in keeping the Afghan insurgency going, ‘sucking the Soviets into
a Vietnamese quagmire.’” [Gates, 1996, pp. 145] In March 1979, there is
a major revolt in Herat province, and in June and August there are large
scale army mutinies. [Cooley, 2002, pp. 5] President Carter will
formally approve covert aid to opponents of the government in July (see
July 3, 1979), which will result in a Russian invasion in December (see
December 8, 1979)."

http://www.historycommons.org/contex...aafghanist an

Billy Burpelson[_2_] November 24th 08 02:32 AM

A Brave New America
 

On 21 Nov 2008 17:51:06 -0500, wrote:

David Hartung writes:

David SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
now this is funny, bush has completely destroyed the constitution,
greed is rampant, bush singlehandedly destroyed the u.s. economy,
and you're scared of the demcorats?
you should be scared of the dumbass nazi neocon republican scum
save america, kill a neocon today


He has come very close to destroying Iraq.
By complete incompetence.


§tarkiller© wrote:

Yeah yeah sure sure, guess that's why so many less people are dying in
Iraq today than did under your hero Saddam yes?


Um, if you read carefully, he said "destroying Iraq" (the COUNTRY), not
specifically that less people are dying. "Destroying Iraq" in that there
is limited electricity, limited fresh water, limited sewage treatment,
lack of medical care/equipment/pharmaceuticals, lack of fuel, lack of
jobs and just generally having TRASHED the entire country.

Guess that's also why the Iraq oil business is booming raking in
billions to Iraq.


So if they are "raking in billions", how would you explain why WE have
to keep sinking billions in Iraq.

Guess that's also why we see so few reports of fighting and deaths
these days compares to just a couple of years ago as well yes?


There are STILL all kinds of bombings...yes, less than "before", but
still a SIGNIFICANT amount, still no picnic.

He has destroyed our prestige in the world.


No, people like Soros, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and few choice
others traveling all over the world badmouthing the US to foreign
nations did a lot of that, along with liberals like yoursel that
started screaming how horrible the US was even before Bush took office


What planet have YOU been on? Yes he HAS destroyed our prestige in the
world, both in the Islamic world and in Europe. Most of the world
realizes the "war" was fraudulent and bogus and therefore have a poor
opinion of us.

He is really one of the worst presidents of
all time.


Another youngster not old enough to have experienced the Carter
administration no doubt.


If W is so much better than Jimmah, does that mean we will be seeing W
get his Nobel prize anytime soon?

David Hartung November 24th 08 03:31 AM

A Brave New America
 
Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have experienced
the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to
Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see
another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.
Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was
Jimmy Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in
Afghanistan. (Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)


Your source for this theory?


Robert Gates, current SecDef.

The CIA begins covert action against the Communist government in
Afghanistan, which is closely tied to the Soviet Union. Some time this
year, the CIA begins training militants in Pakistan and beaming radio
propaganda into Afghanistan. By April 1979, US officials are meeting
with opponents of the Afghan government to determine their needs. [Blum,
1995, pp. 344] Robert Gates, who will become CIA Director in the early
1990s, will later recall that in a meeting on March 30, 1979, Under
Secretary of Defense Walter Slocumbe wonders aloud whether there is
“value in keeping the Afghan insurgency going, ‘sucking the Soviets into
a Vietnamese quagmire.’” [Gates, 1996, pp. 145] In March 1979, there is
a major revolt in Herat province, and in June and August there are large
scale army mutinies. [Cooley, 2002, pp. 5] President Carter will
formally approve covert aid to opponents of the government in July (see
July 3, 1979), which will result in a Russian invasion in December (see
December 8, 1979)."

http://www.historycommons.org/contex...aafghanist an


Very interesting, Thank you.

David Hartung November 24th 08 03:34 AM

A Brave New America
 
Billy Burpelson wrote:

Um, if you read carefully, he said "destroying Iraq" (the COUNTRY), not
specifically that less people are dying. "Destroying Iraq" in that there
is limited electricity, limited fresh water, limited sewage treatment,
lack of medical care/equipment/pharmaceuticals, lack of fuel, lack of
jobs and just generally having TRASHED the entire country.


How recent is your information?

Guess that's also why the Iraq oil business is booming raking in
billions to Iraq.


So if they are "raking in billions", how would you explain why WE have
to keep sinking billions in Iraq.


How are the two statements related?

What planet have YOU been on? Yes he HAS destroyed our prestige in the
world, both in the Islamic world and in Europe. Most of the world
realizes the "war" was fraudulent and bogus and therefore have a poor
opinion of us.


You are aware that there is more to the "?world" than western Europe and
Islam?

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we care
what they think?

RHF November 24th 08 08:58 AM

NHK World - Radio Japan on 9825 kHz @ 09:15 UTC
 
DX Acer @ gMail.Com = NNTP-Posting-Host : 12.154.10.254

So you want to actually read something about
Shortwave Radio in this Newsgroup : Then First
Try Posting something that is about Shortwave
Radio yourself and being a Positive Contributor.

NHK World - Radio Japan on 9825 kHz @ 09:15 UTC
http://www.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

NHK program topic "Rokugo" Japanese Comedy
and a "Rokugo" preformer's tour of the USA.
Plus NHK ID @ 09:18 UTC

David Hartung November 24th 08 04:34 PM

A Brave New America
 
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we care
what they think?


Because, Hartung

THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.

China---1.2 billion


China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant power in
the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should we care what they
think.

Asia--- 3-5 billions spread around.


Asia is a large place. You can demonstrate that they are uniform in
their "dislike" of the USA?

Soumay Nonay November 25th 08 08:56 AM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung wrote:
Billy Burpelson wrote:

David Hartung wrote:

China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant
power in the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should
we care what they think.

Billy Burpelson wrote:

"Why should we care what they think" you ask.

Um, maybe because we have virtually no manufacturing base left.
The Chinese have taken it over. (The "Arsenal of Democracy" has
left the building).

And maybe because they are bigger than us and either can now, or
will soon be able to, kick our ass.

David Hartung wrote:

In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.


That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.

No, I didn't advise any kind of "policy" at all. You just asked "why
should we care?" and I responded -- that China could be a formidable
enemy and, because of that, we -should- care.

Sorry, won't work.

Yes it will.

Fear and greed are the two biggest motivators (well, OK, don't
forget sex). To believe otherwise is to fool yourself.


Perhaps I painted with too broad a brush.

Communist China has never "liked" the USA. Today, they likely see us
as the biggest obstacle to a world dominated by China. Even though
we are their biggest customer, the Chinese do not like us, and for
us to care what they think of our policies is foolishness.




David Hartung November 25th 08 12:24 PM

A Brave New America
 
Soumay Nonay wrote:
David Hartung wrote:


In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.


That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.


You make a very good point.

As I recall, China holds a sizable percentage of US debt.

Who do you think would be hurt worse, at least in the short run, if the
US were to stop making any payments on debt held by the Chinese? Right
now, I believe that such a move would come close to destroying China.
Unfortunately, in the long term, it would hurt the USA even worse.

Brenda Ann November 25th 08 01:00 PM

A Brave New America
 

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
Soumay Nonay wrote:
David Hartung wrote:


In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.


That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.


You make a very good point.

As I recall, China holds a sizable percentage of US debt.

Who do you think would be hurt worse, at least in the short run, if the US
were to stop making any payments on debt held by the Chinese? Right now, I
believe that such a move would come close to destroying China.
Unfortunately, in the long term, it would hurt the USA even worse.


I'm not sure it would hurt China at all. It's most likely a calculated bet
on their part: if we default, and they stop supplying us with cheap consumer
goods, we lose. We have no manufacturing base to replace them, and it would
take a sizable part of our GDP to rebuild them, along with likely a decade
or more, during which we would have to simply do without much of what we now
take for granted in our daily lives. China takes over the place we formerly
held as the world's leading economy.

If we ever pay off all the debt, China still wins, because they will have
all those trillions going directly into their economy.




Billy Burpelson[_2_] November 25th 08 01:36 PM

A Brave New America
 

Brenda Ann wrote:

I'm not sure it would hurt China at all. It's most likely a calculated bet
on their part: if we default, and they stop supplying us with cheap consumer
goods, we lose. We have no manufacturing base to replace them, and it would
take a sizable part of our GDP to rebuild them, along with likely a decade
or more, during which we would have to simply do without much of what we now
take for granted in our daily lives. China takes over the place we formerly
held as the world's leading economy.

If we ever pay off all the debt, China still wins, because they will have
all those trillions going directly into their economy.


"Outsourcing is GOOD for this country"
-- George W. Bush

Heck of a job, Georgie!

Dave[_18_] November 25th 08 01:39 PM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we
care what they think?


Because, Hartung
THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.

China---1.2 billion


China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant power in
the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should we care what they
think.


China is as far as you can get from Communism. They are a fascist
dictatorship.

No Name November 25th 08 03:33 PM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung writes:

David Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have
experienced the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to
Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see
another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.
Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was
Jimmy Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in
Afghanistan. (Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)

Your source for this theory?

Robert Gates, current SecDef.
The CIA begins covert action against the Communist government in
Afghanistan, which is closely tied to the Soviet Union. Some time
this year, the CIA begins training militants in Pakistan and beaming
radio propaganda into Afghanistan. By April 1979, US officials are
meeting with opponents of the Afghan government to determine their
needs. [Blum, 1995, pp. 344] Robert Gates, who will become CIA
Director in the early 1990s, will later recall that in a meeting on
March 30, 1979, Under Secretary of Defense Walter Slocumbe wonders
aloud whether there is “value in keeping the Afghan insurgency
going, ‘sucking the Soviets into a Vietnamese quagmire.’”
[Gates, 1996, pp. 145] In March 1979, there is a major revolt in
Herat province, and in June and August there are large scale army
mutinies. [Cooley, 2002, pp. 5] President Carter will formally
approve covert aid to opponents of the government in July (see July
3, 1979), which will result in a Russian invasion in December (see
December 8, 1979)."
http://www.historycommons.org/contex...aafghanist an


David Very interesting, Thank you.

Steve Coll wrote a wonderful book called "Ghost Wars" about the whole
Afghan/Soviet era, and a bit beyond. I cannot recommend it enough.


--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)

No Name November 26th 08 12:52 AM

A Brave New America
 
David Hartung writes:

David wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we
care what they think?

Because, Hartung THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept
at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.
China---1.2 billion


David China is a communist nation.

China is not communist, and has not been for over twenty
years.

You should really try to keep up with current affairs.


--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)

RHF November 26th 08 03:51 AM

Rush Limbaugh Show via AFN Hawaii on 10,320 kHz [USB] @ 17:23 UTC
 
Rush Limbaugh Show via AFN Hawaii on 10,320 kHz [USB] @ 17:23 UTC
America Forces Network [AFN] = http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/
* American Forces Radio and Television Service [AFRTS]
AFRTS = http://afrts.dodmedia.osd.mil/

Rush Limbaugh Show - Today's Question "Where Is Obama ?"
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh

President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama -said-
"America Only Has One President At A Time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PPNb9srnGs

NOTE - That the Voice-of-America [VOA] read a comment
by the US President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama -wrt- the
"G20" Meeting -that- At This Time the US has Only One
President and That Is President Bush.
http://www.thedailytimes.com/article...NEWS/311089977
{Hello Rush that's still spelled B-U-S-H until 20 JAN 2009}

HEY - Maybe soon VOA will stand for Voice Obama's America :-}

HELLO - Rush ya can't be blame "The Obama" if'n . . .
he ain't on-da-clock yet : GWB is still on da J-O-B [.]
- - - handle it george ;-}

America Forces Network [AFN]
Here are the Current AFN Shortwave Radio High Frequencies
via Single-Side-Band [SSB] using Upper Sideband [USB]
http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/ShortWave.aspx
Source/Location : Pearl Harbor, Hawaii -USA-
[ Center of the Northern Pacific Ocean ]
Days on 10,320 KHz [USB]
Nights on 6,350 KHz [USB]

AFN Radio Program Schedule
http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/AFNRadio.aspx

American Forces Network (AFN) -aka- AFRTS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_Radio

AFN Shortwave Radio [HF-USB] Broadcasts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_F...Wave_.28USB.29

David Hartung November 26th 08 05:17 AM

A Brave New America
 
wrote:
David Hartung writes:


David
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we
care what they think?
Because, Hartung THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept
at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.
China---1.2 billion


David China is a communist nation.

China is not communist, and has not been for over twenty
years.

You should really try to keep up with current affairs.


I see, what are they?

RHF November 26th 08 08:17 PM

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
 
Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/
RA-ABC - http://www.abc.net.au/ra/

Both Frequencies were carrying a news item-interview
with Rupert Murdoch [News-Corp] and the Moderization
of the Print Media in the UK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_...ons_in_Britain

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] "Ways to Listen"
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/waystolisten/
includes a link to Shortwave Radio Frequency Guide

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] Shortwave Radio Frequency Guide
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/pdf...ency_guide.pdf

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] 24 Hour Program Schedule: USA
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/programguide/usa.htm

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] Program Guide including
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/programguide/
Program Schedules & Find a Program & Program List

yes i heard it on the ray-di-oh ~ RHF
Twain Harte, CA -USA-

Mark Zenier November 27th 08 02:57 PM

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
 
In article ,
RHF wrote:
Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/
RA-ABC - http://www.abc.net.au/ra/


(West Coast North America), Also try 11880 kHz at 18-19:00UTC.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)



Telamon November 28th 08 08:10 PM

Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
 
In article ,
(Mark Zenier) wrote:

In article ,
RHF wrote:
Radio Australia [RA-ABC] on 9580 & 9710 kHz @ 17:00 UTC
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/
RA-ABC - http://www.abc.net.au/ra/


(West Coast North America), Also try 11880 kHz at 18-19:00UTC.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)


11880 has been good for me lately but they usually fade out by 18:30UTC.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California


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