In article ,
says...
wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:26:32 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:15:19 -0800 (PST), RHF
wrote:

Real Americans support Equal Political Rights for
both Believers {Persons-of-Faith} and Non-Believers
{Secularist}.
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones, David Dobson
sure as **** don't.
Evidence?

Their mission is to replace all secularists with
"believers" and to change the function of government
from secular to doctrinal----(fundamentalist, of
course)
On this we likely agree.

Pat Robertson chalkboarded his entire strategy for
doing so after his last defeat in a primary
Presidential election.
Cite?

Told you before

If you want to discuss CURRENT EVENTS, you have to be
aware of them

Pat Robertson gave a series of lectures on the 700 club
noting his agenda and not disbanding his campaign staff
in order to push the goal of electing religious
republicans to all levels of public office

Lastly, even a fruitcake like you knows that it's not
just something I made up----and evade the truth because
you know it's correct.

It may be correct, Robertson is certainly capable of doing something
like this.

You have a long track record of posting claims that you cannot support,
and which are often either inaccurate or outright incorrect. I have lost
track of the number of times that I have been unable to find a
supporting cite for one of your claims.

For this reason, I believe nothing you claim, unless it is individually
supported.



How convenient that you somehow forgot Falwell's Clinton tape..

http://waasinfo.com/clients/waas/geo...onnection.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Chronicles

And the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLl7uVWF6pY

The people who made it scare me a lot more than Clinton ever did.

--
BDK

BDK Klan leader?
kOOk Magnet!
NJJ CLUB #1
Shillmaster

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
Soumay Nonay wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 5:22 pm, David Hartung wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 8:41 am, David Hartung wrote:
Kurt_Lochner wrote:
What's become of the Republican Party? Kow-towing to religious,
an evangelical figures, seems to violate the entire concept
of separation of church and state..
You keep your religion out my government, and keeping the
government out of your religion will follow along nicely..
You might be surprised to learn that I am in full agreement,
although for different reasons.
Without fail, every time the Church has gotten in bed with the
government, it has proven to be a spiritual disaster for the
Church. The church.
No where in the New Testament do we see any sign that the church
was politically active.
These tow reasons alone are enough for me to want the church to
have nothing to do with the government.
You will notice as our exchange went on, I put Dobson in a
different category from Robertson and Falwell.
- This is because Falwell and Robertson's organizations
- are set up as evangelistic, church groups. Their stated
- purpose is to proclaim the Gospel. Thus it is improper
- for them to be politically active.
So by "Being" Religious Persons-of-Faith : The Automatically
Lose Some of Their Basic Rights as American Citizens !
-re- T h i n k i n g . . . . .
I haven't said that. Constitutionally, these groups have the same
rights as any other group.

My judgment that these ministries ought not to be involved in
partisan politics comes from my understanding of the Office of Holy
Ministry. Ordained ministers have been set aside by God for the
purpose of proclaiming His kingdom.
- Partisan politics is outside their scope.

Are they any less Human ?
- - - and your Equal ?

Do they have any less Rights as Citizens ?
- - - and your Equal ?

- This is my belief, others differ.

Clearly We Differ ~ RHF
.

If they are to be active politically, they cannot keep tax free
status.

Incorrect.

That is a rule of relatively recent vintage, and one which should be
done
away with.

Despite the fact that I believe it inappropriate for a minster of the
Gospel to involve himself in partisan politics, he still has that
right.

As a matter of fact the change was made by one power-hungry Texas Senator
by
the name of Lyndon Johnson in 1954 so he could get re-elected.

We've had 3 really bad presidents in my lifetime, LBJ, Bill Clinton and
now
Barack Obama.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon






LOL, how can you call Obama a bad president, when he hasn't taken office
yet????

My bad presidents:

1. G.W. Bush nobody comes close, a total embarrassment.
2. Jimmy Carter, worthless.
3. Nixon, a crooked *******.
4. LBJ..Vietnam.

I did just fine with Clinton, and I couldn't care less who he screwed,
was blown by, etc.

--
BDK

BDK Klan leader?
kOOk Magnet!
NJJ CLUB #1
Shillmaster

Then you, sir, are suffering from the ID10T bug. I lived in Arkansas in the
80's and watching Clinton as the best presdient Chinese money could buy was
like deja-vu all over again. He screwed Arkansas, but swept things under
the rug so it all fell on the next Governor. He screwed America, too, but
he swept it all under the rug for Bush to get hit with.

And Obama can't help but be a bad president. He's a Chicago Democrat. Part
of the Machine, one of the most corrupt and dishonest political
organizations in the county. Not only does he have William Ayres as a
friend but he also has Jesse Jackson Jr and Todd Stroger, both of which are
typical tax-and-spend Dimocrats as friends. The Dims here in Chicago are
now ruling by primogeneture. Richard J was replaced by his son Richard M.
John Stroger was replaced by his son. Emil Jones is trying to replace
himself with his son. Edward Madigan is trying to replace himself with his
daughter. Next thing Obama will start ruling by Divine Right. . . .

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:09:18 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:26:32 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:15:19 -0800 (PST), RHF
wrote:

Real Americans support Equal Political Rights for
both Believers {Persons-of-Faith} and Non-Believers
{Secularist}.
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones, David Dobson
sure as **** don't.
Evidence?

Their mission is to replace all secularists with
"believers" and to change the function of government
from secular to doctrinal----(fundamentalist, of
course)
On this we likely agree.

Pat Robertson chalkboarded his entire strategy for
doing so after his last defeat in a primary
Presidential election.
Cite?
Told you before

If you want to discuss CURRENT EVENTS, you have to be
aware of them

Pat Robertson gave a series of lectures on the 700 club
noting his agenda and not disbanding his campaign staff
in order to push the goal of electing religious
republicans to all levels of public office

Lastly, even a fruitcake like you knows that it's not
just something I made up----and evade the truth because
you know it's correct.
It may be correct, Robertson is certainly capable of doing something
like this.

You have a long track record of posting claims that you cannot support,


You have a long track record of requiring "cites" for
things that are historically accepted, matters of
public record, or a host of other things that most
normal, educated, well-informed people have no trouble
accepted as fact

You're they type that would deny most of what Nixon, or
Reagan did in their criminal adminstrations because
either you can't remember, hate the fact it's true, or
just were too stupid to pay attention

You might be surprised to know that I see Nixon's coverup of criminal
activity as the thing which destroyed his presidency.

You counter everything by saying "cite"---which is
evasive.

The litany of untruth, lies, stories, innuendo,
conjecture, theory, rumors that your side leveled at
clinton were so bizarre, out of place, unbelievable
that it was embarassing to have to deal with you turds
who bought it

Now it is you who is ignoring fact.

Jerry Falwell made a Video that compiled a mountain of
outright lies, testimonials by paid "witnesses" and you
can't even remember it-----skating over the fact that
was part of the rightwing, religious reich's railing
against the Clintons

You might be aware that I am not defending Falwell.

You ignored all of Reagan's criminal activities,
impeachable offenses---even in the face of the facts
and highly credible allegations (which eventually were
proven)

You have no idea what I may have "ignored" during the Reagan
Administration.

Yet your entire character shows when public events,
common knowledge, and logical/credible things are
laid before you, you THEN demand "cites

I learned long ago that even commonly known events take on different
character, depending on who is relating the event.

You're nothing more than a troll, and it's not just Me
that says it, Hartung

Your point?

Everyone who whacks you across the snout says the same
thing

you're a miserable, sleazy troll

For me, you're comic relief

Funny, I have much the same opinion of you.

By the way, when did you drop out of high school?

hasn't started yet. They don't usually let you into
high screwel until age 14.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:

Then you, sir, are suffering from the ID10T bug. I lived in Arkansas in the
80's and watching Clinton as the best presdient Chinese money could buy was
like deja-vu all over again. He screwed Arkansas, but swept things under
the rug so it all fell on the next Governor. He screwed America, too, but
he swept it all under the rug for Bush to get hit with.

And Obama can't help but be a bad president. He's a Chicago Democrat. Part
of the Machine, one of the most corrupt and dishonest political
organizations in the county. Not only does he have William Ayres as a
friend but he also has Jesse Jackson Jr and Todd Stroger, both of which are
typical tax-and-spend Dimocrats as friends. The Dims here in Chicago are
now ruling by primogeneture. Richard J was replaced by his son Richard M.
John Stroger was replaced by his son. Emil Jones is trying to replace
himself with his son. Edward Madigan is trying to replace himself with his
daughter. Next thing Obama will start ruling by Divine Right. . . .

I have been waiting for this to come up.

Obama is a politician from Chicago. It is rational to believe that he
has some connection with the Daily machine.

Is there any evidence to support this belief?

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:00:12 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Despite the fact that I believe it inappropriate for a minster of the
Gospel to involve himself in partisan politics, he still has that right.

Not as an official of a tax exempt status
church----without suffering the consequences.

Only because LBJ was trying to silence those who opposed him.

Lyndon Johnson, asshole that he was, did not write or pass tax law by
himself.. there were at least 40 other senators that followed his lead (and
likely at least 50).

CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
Soumay Nonay wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 5:22 pm, David Hartung wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 8:41 am, David Hartung wrote:
Kurt_Lochner wrote:
What's become of the Republican Party? Kow-towing to
religious, an evangelical figures, seems to violate the
entire concept
of separation of church and state..
You keep your religion out my government, and keeping the
government out of your religion will follow along nicely..
You might be surprised to learn that I am in full agreement,
although for different reasons.
Without fail, every time the Church has gotten in bed with the
government, it has proven to be a spiritual disaster for the
Church. The church.
No where in the New Testament do we see any sign that the
church was politically active.
These tow reasons alone are enough for me to want the church to
have nothing to do with the government.
You will notice as our exchange went on, I put Dobson in a
different category from Robertson and Falwell.
- This is because Falwell and Robertson's organizations
- are set up as evangelistic, church groups. Their stated
- purpose is to proclaim the Gospel. Thus it is improper
- for them to be politically active.
So by "Being" Religious Persons-of-Faith : The Automatically
Lose Some of Their Basic Rights as American Citizens !
-re- T h i n k i n g . . . . .
I haven't said that. Constitutionally, these groups have the same
rights as any other group.

My judgment that these ministries ought not to be involved in
partisan politics comes from my understanding of the Office of
Holy Ministry. Ordained ministers have been set aside by God for
the purpose of proclaiming His kingdom.
- Partisan politics is outside their scope.

Are they any less Human ?
- - - and your Equal ?

Do they have any less Rights as Citizens ?
- - - and your Equal ?

- This is my belief, others differ.

Clearly We Differ ~ RHF
.

If they are to be active politically, they cannot keep tax free
status.

Incorrect.

That is a rule of relatively recent vintage, and one which should
be done away with.

Despite the fact that I believe it inappropriate for a minster of
the Gospel to involve himself in partisan politics, he still has
that right.

As a matter of fact the change was made by one power-hungry Texas
Senator by the name of Lyndon Johnson in 1954 so he could get
re-elected.

We've had 3 really bad presidents in my lifetime, LBJ, Bill Clinton
and now Barack Obama.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

Bovine fecal matter..

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:52:24 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

You might be surprised to know that I see Nixon's coverup of criminal
activity as the thing which destroyed his presidency.

His entire view of the presidence was criminal

His actions were impeachable.

And he resigned to avoid impeachment.

So?

BDK wrote:

My bad presidents:

1. G.W. Bush nobody comes close, a total embarrassment.
2. Jimmy Carter, worthless.
3. Nixon, a crooked *******.
4. LBJ..Vietnam.

You forgot that #4 also qualifies for a "crooked *******"...big time!

In article , says...

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
Soumay Nonay wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 5:22 pm, David Hartung wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Nov 28, 8:41 am, David Hartung wrote:
Kurt_Lochner wrote:
What's become of the Republican Party? Kow-towing to religious,
an evangelical figures, seems to violate the entire concept
of separation of church and state..
You keep your religion out my government, and keeping the
government out of your religion will follow along nicely..
You might be surprised to learn that I am in full agreement,
although for different reasons.
Without fail, every time the Church has gotten in bed with the
government, it has proven to be a spiritual disaster for the
Church. The church.
No where in the New Testament do we see any sign that the church
was politically active.
These tow reasons alone are enough for me to want the church to
have nothing to do with the government.
You will notice as our exchange went on, I put Dobson in a
different category from Robertson and Falwell.
- This is because Falwell and Robertson's organizations
- are set up as evangelistic, church groups. Their stated
- purpose is to proclaim the Gospel. Thus it is improper
- for them to be politically active.
So by "Being" Religious Persons-of-Faith : The Automatically
Lose Some of Their Basic Rights as American Citizens !
-re- T h i n k i n g . . . . .
I haven't said that. Constitutionally, these groups have the same
rights as any other group.

My judgment that these ministries ought not to be involved in
partisan politics comes from my understanding of the Office of Holy
Ministry. Ordained ministers have been set aside by God for the
purpose of proclaiming His kingdom.
- Partisan politics is outside their scope.

Are they any less Human ?
- - - and your Equal ?

Do they have any less Rights as Citizens ?
- - - and your Equal ?

- This is my belief, others differ.

Clearly We Differ ~ RHF
.

If they are to be active politically, they cannot keep tax free
status.

Incorrect.

That is a rule of relatively recent vintage, and one which should be
done
away with.

Despite the fact that I believe it inappropriate for a minster of the
Gospel to involve himself in partisan politics, he still has that
right.

As a matter of fact the change was made by one power-hungry Texas Senator
by
the name of Lyndon Johnson in 1954 so he could get re-elected.

We've had 3 really bad presidents in my lifetime, LBJ, Bill Clinton and
now
Barack Obama.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon






LOL, how can you call Obama a bad president, when he hasn't taken office
yet????

My bad presidents:

1. G.W. Bush nobody comes close, a total embarrassment.
2. Jimmy Carter, worthless.
3. Nixon, a crooked *******.
4. LBJ..Vietnam.

I did just fine with Clinton, and I couldn't care less who he screwed,
was blown by, etc.

--
BDK

BDK Klan leader?
kOOk Magnet!
NJJ CLUB #1
Shillmaster

Then you, sir, are suffering from the ID10T bug. I lived in Arkansas in the
80's and watching Clinton as the best presdient Chinese money could buy was
like deja-vu all over again. He screwed Arkansas, but swept things under
the rug so it all fell on the next Governor. He screwed America, too, but
he swept it all under the rug for Bush to get hit with.

And Obama can't help but be a bad president. He's a Chicago Democrat. Part
of the Machine, one of the most corrupt and dishonest political
organizations in the county. Not only does he have William Ayres as a
friend but he also has Jesse Jackson Jr and Todd Stroger, both of which are
typical tax-and-spend Dimocrats as friends. The Dims here in Chicago are
now ruling by primogeneture. Richard J was replaced by his son Richard M.
John Stroger was replaced by his son. Emil Jones is trying to replace
himself with his son. Edward Madigan is trying to replace himself with his
daughter. Next thing Obama will start ruling by Divine Right. . . .

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon




BWHAHAHA! So you claim to be a psychic?

--
BDK

BDK Klan leader?
kOOk Magnet!
NJJ CLUB #1
Shillmaster

In article ,
says...
CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:

Then you, sir, are suffering from the ID10T bug. I lived in Arkansas in the
80's and watching Clinton as the best presdient Chinese money could buy was
like deja-vu all over again. He screwed Arkansas, but swept things under
the rug so it all fell on the next Governor. He screwed America, too, but
he swept it all under the rug for Bush to get hit with.

And Obama can't help but be a bad president. He's a Chicago Democrat. Part
of the Machine, one of the most corrupt and dishonest political
organizations in the county. Not only does he have William Ayres as a
friend but he also has Jesse Jackson Jr and Todd Stroger, both of which are
typical tax-and-spend Dimocrats as friends. The Dims here in Chicago are
now ruling by primogeneture. Richard J was replaced by his son Richard M.
John Stroger was replaced by his son. Emil Jones is trying to replace
himself with his son. Edward Madigan is trying to replace himself with his
daughter. Next thing Obama will start ruling by Divine Right. . . .

I have been waiting for this to come up.

Obama is a politician from Chicago. It is rational to believe that he
has some connection with the Daily machine.

Is there any evidence to support this belief?


My car has a connection with gasoline. Who would have thunk it?

--
BDK

BDK Klan leader?
kOOk Magnet!
NJJ CLUB #1
Shillmaster