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Old November 28th 08, 04:07 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,alt.religion.christian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.republicans
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Default The Separation of Church and Statein America Today..

David Hartung wrote:

wrote:

David Hartung wrote:

- - -
When, specifically did this happen?


Fall of 1994, setting up the vetoes by Clinton in 1995
over the budgets, eventally leading to the GOP shutdown

ALL of the major networks covered the event---(not the
meeting itself, but the fact it was called)

A leak from that meeting was published in various
internet sites describing Dobson's threats to refuse
funding to GOP candidates, to run candidates against
incumbents, and to use his media empire to campaign
against them


Okay, the meeting took place.


Worse than that.. Several have "taken place", David..

A Righteous Indignation

James Dobson--psychologist, radio host, family-values crusader -
- is set to topple the political establishment

BY MICHAEL J. GERSON

On March 18, in the basement of the Capitol, 25 House Republicans
met with psychologist James Dobson for some emotional venting. But
this was not personal therapy; it concerned the fate of their party.
Dobson, long on loyal radio listeners and short on patience, was
threatening, in effect, to bring down the GOP unless it made
conservative social issues, including abortion, a higher legislative
priority. "If I go," he has said, "I will do everything I can to
take as many people with me as possible."

In the audience sat some of Dobson's closest ideological allies.
Rep. Steve Largent of Oklahoma, a former star football player,
was a volunteer speaker for Dobson's organization, Focus on the
Family, from 1990 to 1993. He credits this with "sparking my
interest in public policy." Rep. James Talent of Missouri, years
before, had pulled off the highway and prayed along with Dobson
on the radio to become a Christian. "He is the instrument through
which I committed my life to Christ. It is the single most important
thing that has ever or will ever happen to me."

But for over two hours, until nearly midnight, House conservatives
confronted Dobson about his indiscriminate attacks on the Republican
Party, asking credit for achievements he had ignored. At one point
the wife of a congressman, in tears, explained how Dobson's
broadside had hurt their family, inviting harsh questions from
friends. An emotional Dobson, according to one witness, responded,
"I'm so sorry I hurt you."

Sobered, Dobson canceled planned meetings with the New York Times
and the Washington Post, where he would have laid out his threat
to leave. But in the next two weeks, he sent lengthy, public letters
renewing the threat, which hangs in the air like distant thunder at
the Republican picnic.

This conflict dramatizes a growing gap between grass-roots
conservatism and governing conservatism, between the raised
expectations of activists and the weary realism of legislators.
It reveals a party that may be crumbling, not at its periphery
but at its center, among its most loyal supporters. And it may
be signaling a major shift in the attitudes of Christian
conservatives toward politics."

There are several questions:


Yes, and you're avoiding the real question..

1. Was the meeting called, or requested by Dobson?


Why does that matter, David?

2. What is wrong with applying political pressure?


What's wrong with religious figures trying to influence
politics? Well, if politicians were trying to influence
religion, you'd be questioning that too..

That 'wall of separation' works both ways, in case you missed it..

The Left does it all the time.


That would be a logical fallacy..

While I am skeptical of Dobson's group, I do pout him in a different
category, simply because he is not an ordained minister, and does not
seem to be trying to build himself an empire.


So, now you're saying that Dobson's "Focus On The Family" isn't
an empire? A multi-media empire, at that? Here's some numbers..

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family

Founder: Dr. James C. Dobson

President/Chief Executive Officer: James D. Daly

Established: 1977

Finances: $137,848,520 (2004 Focus on the Family revenue);
$24,988,036 (2004 Focus on the Family Action revenue)

Staff: approximately 1,300 employees

Publications: 2.3 million subscribers to ten monthly magazines.

Media: Dr. Dobson is heard daily on more than 3,400 radio facilities
in North America, in 15 languages, on approximately 6,300
facilities in 164 countries.

Funding

* According to Ministry Watch, Focus on the Family is the eighth
largest ministry in terms of revenues in their database. FOF
receives a substantial portion of its revenue from its countless
resources, including book, periodical, CD, video, and magazine sales,
as well as conference and retreat costs, yet still, in its 2004
990 form, declares $118,263,318 of grants, contributions and gifts
received from donors. Focus on the Family's ownership of its land
and buildings add up to $48 million on its books, and in 2004 they
cited the cost of upkeep and improvements on their property to be
over $101.5 million.

--And that's somehow, by your redefinitions, not an empire?
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