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-   -   WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC! (https://www.radiobanter.com/shortwave/139692-whas-am-840-no-more-iboc.html)

Mike[_2_] December 28th 08 03:20 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!

[email protected][_2_] December 28th 08 04:10 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 7:20*pm, Mike wrote:
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


elaich December 28th 08 05:18 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
wrote in news:9113e144-7c8e-4394-b56e-76c238177f41
@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Shortwave and ANALog radio is dead and buried - DON'T WASTE YOUR
MONEY!
More importantly why waste your time trying to listen to distant
stations through AM band noise and intermitant propagation in hopes of
catching a few phrases of a radio program. What an incredibly boring
and useless activity.


Hey moron... this group is comprised of people who enjoy doing just so. So,
why the hell are you here to begin with?

Dave[_18_] December 28th 08 01:37 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
m II wrote:
Mike wrote:

I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!


KFBK (1530 Sacramento) seems to be using the 'system'. Anyone close by
having any problems? I'm not getting any more noise than normal on
either side of the frequency, but it's a few thousand miles away.

mike
Calgary Alberta
Canada

Like KNX, KFBK has mild selective fading here. Whenever the fade occurs
the wubba-wubba-wubba-wubba sound comes up. You never used to notice
the slight fades, now they can't be ignored. I suspect this is true of
all AM IBOC stations farther than 30 or 40 miles from the towers.

Dave[_18_] December 28th 08 01:44 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
wrote:
Mike wrote:
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.



WCCO 830 is available 24X7 in pure digital here
http://www.wccoradio.com

WHAS 840 is available 24X7 in pure digital here http://www.whas.com

KOA 850 is available 24X7 in pure digital here http://www.850koa.com/pages/ondemand.html

If you have a HiFi receiver with a Ethernet port connected to a
broadband Internet connection you can listen to the above stations as
well as any of the thousands of AM, FM and SW stations available on
Internet radio in pure digital stereo audio bliss any time of day
every day of the week. You can listen to all of the above and more
for less than what you would pay for a used Drake R8!

You do realize that the programming on web streams is different than the
over-the-air programming.

Dave[_18_] December 28th 08 01:46 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
wrote:
wrote:
KDKA Pittsburgh is local to
me and sometimes WBZ Boston's HD hash is clearly heard through them.


bwaHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


Some of us have to rely on distant signals for all our radio.

[email protected] December 28th 08 02:31 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 11:56 pm, wrote:
wrote:
KDKA Pittsburgh is local to
me and sometimes WBZ Boston's HD hash is clearly heard through them.


bwaHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


I think Salty has anger managment problem.
Would you like to tell us more Salty? We're here to listen.

PocketRadio December 28th 08 02:51 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 10:20*pm, Mike wrote:
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!


Good news! Hopefully, it will be permanent! Clear Channel's Format Lab
HD2 channels is down to only 7, from 75, due to a lack of demand. For
AM-HD, more-an-more stations are turning it off:

"CC Radio’s Format Lab gone?"
November 2008

"So bottom line, the Format Lab is no longer available on the web and
has cut some of its formats down to the most successful/desirable. The
www.iHeartMusic.com website seems to only list the main audio streams
of CC stations--not multicast HD formats--but does offer a few off to
the side: erockster; Pride; Verizon New Music; Smooth Jazz; Real
Oldies; Slow Jams and New Country. There used to be something close to
100 formats listed on the site... Really, the next round of budget
cuts--out of necessity--is likely going to be HD Radio equipment and
licensing renewals. It has cost broadcasters money that so far has not
generated ROI. This CC Radio news above, along with the rumors that
Citadel has told Engineering not to fix any broken HD transmitters on
AM, may be the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/11252.html

PocketRadio December 28th 08 02:54 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 11:10�pm, " wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:20�pm, Mike wrote:

I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


"Editorial on the recent approval of HD Radio (IBOC) in the USA"

"The reason the big boys in the big markets are so pro-IBOC is because
they like the hash as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
market. There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash wipes the
signal out, then the locals will have to listen to their local
station. Kind of like legal jamming. Considering that, then even if
the public does not buy the radios, keeping the IBOC signal might be
worth their while."

http://www.am-dx.com/amiboc.htm

Yup! With HD Radio receiver sales still in the toilet, there is no ROI
for HD Radio, but the empty digital saddlebags continue to jam, which
was IBOC's design from the beginning.

PocketRadio December 28th 08 02:57 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 11:28�pm, Mike wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:20 pm, " wrote:



I don't know if you want to let the former IBOC station (WHAS) know
that you appreciate listening to out of town stations. They might turn
the noise generator back on


You might be right. When WHAS first turned on IBOC, over a year ago, I
wrote them a series of letters and emails, begging them to turn the
IBOC off at least at night. They never responded, so it's hard to
estimate whether they had much impact.

On the other hand, I have noticed that at least two of the major
announcers on WHAS seemed aware of the DX community. I even heard one
of them bragging one Sunday morning about a reception report they had
received from above the Arctic Circle in Norway...

Mike
Louisville, KY


****balls like Eduardo keep emphasizing that if one in not within the
protect contour, then one doesn't count - this is the type of
arrogance that is leading to the decline in the industry.

PocketRadio December 28th 08 03:00 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 27, 11:44�pm, Mike wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:30 pm, (Theo) wrote:

I read where our local WBAP 820 dropped the IBOC.


Maybe that explains why reception of WBAP, here in KY, suddenly seems
better!

Wishing that they'd all turn IBOC off,

Mike


Here is a good site to keep traack of current AM-HD stations:

http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html

HD Radio is slowly failing and I'm guessing that more-and-more
stations will be slowly turning off IBOC. This is the end of the year,
and licenisng renewals are probably up for renewal. Let's see ****ball
Struble spin this, when stations stop renewing their HD licenses.

David Eduardo[_4_] December 28th 08 03:27 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


David Eduardo[_4_] December 28th 08 03:27 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
Mike wrote:
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.



WCCO 830 is available 24X7 in pure digital here
http://www.wccoradio.com

WHAS 840 is available 24X7 in pure digital here http://www.whas.com

KOA 850 is available 24X7 in pure digital here
http://www.850koa.com/pages/ondemand.html

If you have a HiFi receiver with a Ethernet port connected to a
broadband Internet connection you can listen to the above stations as
well as any of the thousands of AM, FM and SW stations available on
Internet radio in pure digital stereo audio bliss any time of day
every day of the week. You can listen to all of the above and more
for less than what you would pay for a used Drake R8!

You do realize that the programming on web streams is different than the
over-the-air programming.


The only difference is in some of the commercials.


PocketRadio December 28th 08 04:05 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 10:27�am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


"News/Talk/Sports:Radio's Last Bastion"

"Music FMs of any flavor are utterly screwed... Right now -- while FMs
are losing the music audience to new media -- satellite radio is
offering more News/Talk/Sports programming than we can fit on AM
radio..."

http://ftp.media.radcity.net/ZMST/daily/IS031005.htm

Many of the larger 50kw AM stations are ranked in the top-5, and some
are #1, as with WLW. The FMs are just jealous! LOL!

RHF December 28th 08 05:07 PM

IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio Marketing System and DXing BeDamned !
 
On Dec 28, 6:54*am, PocketRadio wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:10 pm, " wrote:

On Dec 27, 7:20 pm, Mike wrote:


I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


"Editorial on the recent approval of HD Radio (IBOC) in the USA"


- "The reason the big boys in the big markets
- are so pro-IBOC is because they like the hash
- as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
- market.

PocketRadio - Oh did that Light Bulb just go 'ON'.
Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Radio Market
and Noises-Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash
- wipes the signal out, then the locals will have to
- listen to their local station.

PocketRadio - Dang that Light Bulb just went 'ON'
again. Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Market
and Noises Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- Kind of like legal jamming. Considering that, then
- even if the public does not buy the radios, keeping
- the IBOC signal might be worth their while."

All Radio Advertising is 'local' as with Politics
their may be National and Regional Buys -but-
The Target is the "Local" Radio Listener.

CCRadios may be a National Advertiser on C2C AM
-but- It is a "Local" Advertiser on each of the 500+
'Local' Radio Stations which rebroadcast the ADZ.

- http://www.am-dx.com/amiboc.htm
-
- Yup! With HD Radio receiver sales still in the
- toilet, there is no ROI for HD Radio, but the
- empty digital saddlebags continue to jam,
- which was IBOC's design from the beginning.

PocketRadio - That's Three Light Bulb in a Day :
You are Doing Good and Catching On

but, But. BUT ! All this only really applies to AM/MW
and the Real Intent of IBOC "HD-Radio" is FM Radio
Stations and HD-2 Secondary Broadcasting Channels
and Additional Income Streams from the One Radio
Station License.

Plus remember with rare exceptions there is 'No' DX
in the FM Radio Band like there is almost every Night
in the AM/MW Radio Band : So FM Radio always has
be a Local Only Media Marketing System. FM IBOC
is just another level of insurance that it remains that way.

Like It Or Not IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio
Marketing System and DXing Be Damned ! ~ RHF

RHF December 28th 08 05:16 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 5:44*am, Dave wrote:
wrote:
Mike wrote:
I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


WCCO 830 is available 24X7 in pure digital herehttp://www.wccoradio.com


WHAS 840 is available 24X7 in pure digital herehttp://www.whas.com


KOA 850 is available 24X7 in pure digital herehttp://www.850koa.com/pages/ondemand.html


If you have a HiFi receiver with a Ethernet port connected to a
broadband Internet connection you can listen to the above stations as
well as any of the thousands of AM, FM and SW stations available on
Internet radio in pure digital stereo audio bliss any time of day
every day of the week. *You can listen to all of the above and more
for less than what you would pay for a used Drake R8!


- You do realize that the programming on web streams
- is different than the over-the-air programming.

Dave - Then why do they call it "Listen Live"
or "Live Streaming" ? ~ RHF

PocketRadio December 28th 08 06:38 PM

IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio Marketing System and DXing BeDamned !
 
On Dec 28, 12:07*pm, RHF wrote:
On Dec 28, 6:54*am, PocketRadio wrote:





On Dec 27, 11:10 pm, " wrote:


On Dec 27, 7:20 pm, Mike wrote:


I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


"Editorial on the recent approval of HD Radio (IBOC) in the USA"


- "The reason the big boys in the big markets
- are so pro-IBOC is because they like the hash
- as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
- market.

PocketRadio - Oh did that Light Bulb just go 'ON'.
Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Radio Market
and Noises-Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash
- wipes the signal out, then the locals will have to
- listen to their local station.

PocketRadio - Dang that Light Bulb just went 'ON'
again. *Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Market
and Noises Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- Kind of like legal jamming. Considering that, then
- even if the public does not buy the radios, keeping
- the IBOC signal might be worth their while."

All Radio Advertising is 'local' as with Politics
their may be National and Regional Buys -but-
The Target is the "Local" Radio Listener.

CCRadios may be a National Advertiser on C2C AM
-but- It is a "Local" Advertiser on each of the 500+
'Local' Radio Stations which rebroadcast the ADZ.

-http://www.am-dx.com/amiboc.htm
-
- Yup! With HD Radio receiver sales still in the
- toilet, there is no ROI for HD Radio, but the
- empty digital saddlebags continue to jam,
- which was IBOC's design from the beginning.

PocketRadio - That's Three Light Bulb in a Day :
You are Doing Good and Catching On

but, But. BUT ! All this only really applies to AM/MW
and the Real Intent of IBOC "HD-Radio" is FM Radio
Stations and HD-2 Secondary Broadcasting Channels
and Additional Income Streams from the One Radio
Station License.

Plus remember with rare exceptions there is 'No' DX
in the FM Radio Band like there is almost every Night
in the AM/MW Radio Band : So FM Radio always has
be a Local Only Media Marketing System. *FM IBOC
is just another level of insurance that it remains that way.

Like It Or Not IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio
Marketing System and DXing Be Damned ! ~ RHF
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


"All this only really applies to AM/MW
and the Real Intent of IBOC "HD-Radio" is FM Radio
Stations and HD-2 Secondary Broadcasting Channels
and Additional Income Streams from the One Radio
Station License."

"Addressing The Long Tail: HD2s and HD3s for Fun and Profit"

"Analog radio cannot effectively serve The Long Tail. Broadcasters
have had huge success addressing the 80% with widely popular mass
market content pushed through our loud speakers. But our economic
structure won’t let us take advantage of the few consumers who like
reggae or death metal or comedy or mommy talk. You simply cannot
program niche formats on analog stations and make the numbers work –
listenership and revenue potential are too low to cover capital and
operating costs... So go ahead, grab that Long Tail. It will help your
station, and help the industry."

http://tinyurl.com/66jb9s

"Harvard Business Review: Should You Invest in the Long Tail?"

"Chris Anderson, editor of Wired magazine, argues that the sudden
availability of niche offerings more closely tailored to their tastes
will lure consumers away from homogenized hits. The 'tail' of the
sales distribution curve, he says, will become longer, fatter, and
more profitable. Elberse, a professor at Harvard Business School, set
out to investigate whether Anderson's long-tail theory is actually
playing out in today's markets. She focused on the music and home-
video industries -- two markets that Anderson and others frequently
hold up as examples of the long tail in action -- reviewing sales data
from Nielsen SoundScan, Nielsen VideoScan, the online music service
Rhapsody, and the Australian DVD-by-mail service Quickflix. What she
found may surprise you: Blockbusters are capturing even more of the
market than they used to, and consumers in the tail don't really like
niche products much."

http://www.citeulike.org/user/mmkurth/article/2984768

"Radio: HD Radio's holiday horror"

"We already have too many radio stations on terrestrial AM and FM...
If every man, woman and child in this great country of ours had
complete and total access to HD Radio – it would obliterate the radio
industry. You’d have listeners spread out on to too many radio
stations for any one station to show effective reach and frequency. Do
the math. This blue sky world for HD Radio would put all radio out of
business. No one station would have enough listeners to justify
advertising."

http://tinyurl.com/6omhpv

Oh, really? Looks like HD Radio's business-models is broken - LOL!

PocketRadio December 28th 08 06:40 PM

IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio Marketing System and DXing BeDamned !
 
On Dec 28, 12:07�pm, RHF wrote:
On Dec 28, 6:54�am, PocketRadio wrote:





On Dec 27, 11:10 pm, " wrote:


On Dec 27, 7:20 pm, Mike wrote:


I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


"Editorial on the recent approval of HD Radio (IBOC) in the USA"


- "The reason the big boys in the big markets
- are so pro-IBOC is because they like the hash
- as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
- market.

PocketRadio - Oh did that Light Bulb just go 'ON'.
Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Radio Market
and Noises-Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash
- wipes the signal out, then the locals will have to
- listen to their local station.

PocketRadio - Dang that Light Bulb just went 'ON'
again. �Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Market
and Noises Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- Kind of like legal jamming. Considering that, then
- even if the public does not buy the radios, keeping
- the IBOC signal might be worth their while."

All Radio Advertising is 'local' as with Politics
their may be National and Regional Buys -but-
The Target is the "Local" Radio Listener.

CCRadios may be a National Advertiser on C2C AM
-but- It is a "Local" Advertiser on each of the 500+
'Local' Radio Stations which rebroadcast the ADZ.

-http://www.am-dx.com/amiboc.htm
-
- Yup! With HD Radio receiver sales still in the
- toilet, there is no ROI for HD Radio, but the
- empty digital saddlebags continue to jam,
- which was IBOC's design from the beginning.

PocketRadio - That's Three Light Bulb in a Day :
You are Doing Good and Catching On

but, But. BUT ! All this only really applies to AM/MW
and the Real Intent of IBOC "HD-Radio" is FM Radio
Stations and HD-2 Secondary Broadcasting Channels
and Additional Income Streams from the One Radio
Station License.

Plus remember with rare exceptions there is 'No' DX
in the FM Radio Band like there is almost every Night
in the AM/MW Radio Band : So FM Radio always has
be a Local Only Media Marketing System. �FM IBOC
is just another level of insurance that it remains that way.

Like It Or Not IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio
Marketing System and DXing Be Damned ! ~ RHF
�.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Funny thing - Struble is Harvard-bred:

"Robert J. Struble, President and CEO"

"Bob earned his Bachelor's Degree in Chemical Engineering from MIT
where he was elected into the Tau Beta Pi and Sigma Xi engineering
honor societies, and an MBA from Harvard, where he graduated with high
distinction as a Baker Scholar."

http://tinyurl.com/5jjujj

I guess, that he dosn't read the Harvard Business Review, or maybe he
knows he's lying - wonder which? LOL!

PocketRadio December 28th 08 06:48 PM

IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio Marketing System and DXing BeDamned !
 
On Dec 28, 12:07*pm, RHF wrote:
On Dec 28, 6:54*am, PocketRadio wrote:





On Dec 27, 11:10 pm, " wrote:


On Dec 27, 7:20 pm, Mike wrote:


I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.


Way to go!


You might want to drop WCCO and KOA a note about how you like your DX
back again. I always suspected IBOC was there to destroy the distant
stations to protect the local market.


"Editorial on the recent approval of HD Radio (IBOC) in the USA"


- "The reason the big boys in the big markets
- are so pro-IBOC is because they like the hash
- as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
- market.

PocketRadio - Oh did that Light Bulb just go 'ON'.
Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Radio Market
and Noises-Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash
- wipes the signal out, then the locals will have to
- listen to their local station.

PocketRadio - Dang that Light Bulb just went 'ON'
again. *Yes IBOC helps to insure a Local Market
and Noises Out the Distant Radio Stations.

- Kind of like legal jamming. Considering that, then
- even if the public does not buy the radios, keeping
- the IBOC signal might be worth their while."

All Radio Advertising is 'local' as with Politics
their may be National and Regional Buys -but-
The Target is the "Local" Radio Listener.

CCRadios may be a National Advertiser on C2C AM
-but- It is a "Local" Advertiser on each of the 500+
'Local' Radio Stations which rebroadcast the ADZ.

-http://www.am-dx.com/amiboc.htm
-
- Yup! With HD Radio receiver sales still in the
- toilet, there is no ROI for HD Radio, but the
- empty digital saddlebags continue to jam,
- which was IBOC's design from the beginning.

PocketRadio - That's Three Light Bulb in a Day :
You are Doing Good and Catching On

but, But. BUT ! All this only really applies to AM/MW
and the Real Intent of IBOC "HD-Radio" is FM Radio
Stations and HD-2 Secondary Broadcasting Channels
and Additional Income Streams from the One Radio
Station License.

Plus remember with rare exceptions there is 'No' DX
in the FM Radio Band like there is almost every Night
in the AM/MW Radio Band : So FM Radio always has
be a Local Only Media Marketing System. *FM IBOC
is just another level of insurance that it remains that way.

Like It Or Not IBOC : It's All About 'Local' Radio
Marketing System and DXing Be Damned ! ~ RHF
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


"CC Radio’s Format Lab gone?"
November 2008

"So bottom line, the Format Lab is no longer available on the web and
has cut some of its formats down to the most successful/desirable. The
www.iHeartMusic.com website seems to only list the main audio streams
of CC stations--not multicast HD formats--but does offer a few off to
the side: erockster; Pride; Verizon New Music; Smooth Jazz; Real
Oldies; Slow Jams and New Country. There used to be something close to
100 formats listed on the site... Really, the next round of budget
cuts--out of necessity--is likely going to be HD Radio equipment and
licensing renewals. It has cost broadcasters money that so far has not
generated ROI. This CC Radio news above, along with the rumors that
Citadel has told Engineering not to fix any broken HD transmitters on
AM, may be the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/11252.html

Why do you think CCU's Format Lab has been a failure - well, DAH!

David Eduardo[_4_] December 28th 08 07:57 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"PocketRadio" wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 10:27�am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


"News/Talk/Sports:Radio's Last Bastion"

Only if it moves to FM.

"Music FMs of any flavor are utterly screwed... Right now -- while FMs
are losing the music audience to new media -- satellite radio is
offering more News/Talk/Sports programming than we can fit on AM
radio..."

Hmm. Let's look at the average persons listening to radio in LA in 1998 and
2008 for all AMs and all FMs.

FM in 2008: 1,089,000 persons. In 1998: 1,116,000 persons. A difference of
only 26,000 persons against about 1.1 million
AM in 2008: 250,000 average persons. In 1998, 305,000 persons... about 17%.

AM in 1998 had a 17 share of LA listening, now it has a 15 share. FM is flat
at 62%. In 25-54, AM has a 12 share. In 18-34, AM has a 5 share... 19 out of
20 listeners are not on AM any more. And LA does better than most markets,
where 25-54 AM shares are below a 10.

Many of the larger 50kw AM stations are ranked in the top-5, and some
are #1, as with WLW. The FMs are just jealous! LOL!

There are no FMs jelous of stations that have most of their listenership
among listeners over 55. Advertisers want listeners between 18 and 54 or 18
and 49, not over 55. There is no ad money for the older listeners that
predominante on FM.

The figures you constantly mention are for listeners 12+ to death, while
advertisers only want narrow adult demos, over 18 and below 55. This is why
more and more AM news/talk formats are moving to FM or starting an FM
simulcast... because only on FM can they reach the under-55 listeners they
so badly need to survive.


David Eduardo[_4_] December 28th 08 07:59 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 5:44 am, Dave wrote:

If you have a HiFi receiver with a Ethernet port connected to a
broadband Internet connection you can listen to the above stations as
well as any of the thousands of AM, FM and SW stations available on
Internet radio in pure digital stereo audio bliss any time of day
every day of the week. You can listen to all of the above and more
for less than what you would pay for a used Drake R8!


- You do realize that the programming on web streams
- is different than the over-the-air programming.

Dave - Then why do they call it "Listen Live"
or "Live Streaming" ? ~ RHF

He does not understand that the only differences are some of the
commercials.



David Eduardo[_4_] December 28th 08 08:01 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"PocketRadio" wrote in message
...
"The reason the big boys in the big markets are so pro-IBOC is because
they like the hash as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
market. There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash wipes the
signal out, then the locals will have to listen to their local
station.

There were no first adjacent AMs making the ratings in any of the "big
markets" to begin with. So what is to gain by stopping something that is not
occurring?


dxAce December 28th 08 08:01 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 


David Eduardo wrote:

"PocketRadio" wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 10:27�am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


"News/Talk/Sports:Radio's Last Bastion"

Only if it moves to FM.

"Music FMs of any flavor are utterly screwed... Right now -- while FMs
are losing the music audience to new media -- satellite radio is
offering more News/Talk/Sports programming than we can fit on AM
radio..."

Hmm. Let's look at the average persons listening to radio in LA in 1998 and
2008 for all AMs and all FMs.


You look at 'em boy! The rest of us just want to listen to the radio without
your damn IBOC QRM.

Here's a New Year's Resolution for you: Give up the faux Hispanic shtick!



elaich December 28th 08 11:43 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
"David Eduardo" wrote in
:

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening levels are declining faster than ever.


Well, that's funny. I turn on my DX-440 at night, and the AM band is just
as populated as any time I remember. I think you are in denial. These
stations wouldn't be on the air if nobody was listening, would they?

Face it. AM listeners don't need IBOC because they are perfectly happy with
what already exists - a signal that can be listened to with 1920s
technology. It's looking more and more like IBOC was a putup deal with a
corrupt FCC Commissioner, and somewhere down the road, the investigating
body is going to start asking questions about where the money came from.
You wouldn't want to be named then, would you?

IBOC is dying a slow, contracted, but well deserved death. Nobody wanted it
to start with, as sales of receivers will testify.

As a BCB Dxer, I will throw a party the day the last one is shut down.

[email protected][_2_] December 28th 08 11:46 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 12:01*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
"The reason the big boys in the big markets are so pro-IBOC is because
they like the hash as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
market. There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash wipes the
signal out, then the locals will have to listen to their local
station.

There were no first adjacent AMs making the ratings in any of the "big
markets" to begin with. So what is to gain by stopping something that is not
occurring?


The "book" be damned. I'm sure in rural areas, vendors get feedback
about where their spots reach via sales, and sales in the store is
what motivates them. So you sell farm machinery in Fresno and some
customer from the boonies tells you he heard your spot on KMJ, who ya
gonna believe? The "book" or your customer?

IBOC is all about destroying distant radio stations.

[email protected][_2_] December 28th 08 11:48 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 6:57*am, PocketRadio wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:28 pm, Mike wrote:



On Dec 27, 11:20 pm, " wrote:


I don't know if you want to let the former IBOC station (WHAS) know
that you appreciate listening to out of town stations. They might turn
the noise generator back on


You might be right. When WHAS first turned on IBOC, over a year ago, I
wrote them a series of letters and emails, begging them to turn the
IBOC off at least at night. They never responded, so it's hard to
estimate whether they had much impact.


On the other hand, I have noticed that at least two of the major
announcers on WHAS seemed aware of the DX community. I even heard one
of them bragging one Sunday morning about a reception report they had
received from above the Arctic Circle in Norway...


Mike
Louisville, KY


****balls like Eduardo keep emphasizing that if one in not within the
protect contour, then one doesn't count - this is the type of
arrogance that is leading to the decline in the industry.


I agree with your assessment of what David thinks, though not your
opinion of the person. He is 100% commercially driven, and the "book"
is everything in the commercial market.

[email protected][_2_] December 28th 08 11:52 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 11:57*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
On Dec 28, 10:27 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message


....
Salty,


Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!


What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


"News/Talk/Sports:Radio's Last Bastion"

Only if it moves to FM.

"Music FMs of any flavor are utterly screwed... Right now -- while FMs
are losing the music audience to new media -- satellite radio is
offering more News/Talk/Sports programming than we can fit on AM
radio..."

Hmm. Let's look at the average persons listening to radio in LA in 1998 and
2008 for all AMs and all FMs.

FM in 2008: 1,089,000 persons. In 1998: 1,116,000 persons. A difference of
only 26,000 persons against about 1.1 million
AM in 2008: 250,000 average persons. In 1998, 305,000 persons... about 17%.

AM in 1998 had a 17 share of LA listening, now it has a 15 share. FM is flat
at 62%. In 25-54, AM has a 12 share. In 18-34, AM has a 5 share... 19 out of
20 listeners are not on AM any more. And LA does better than most markets,
where 25-54 AM shares are below a 10.

Many of the larger 50kw AM stations are ranked in the top-5, and some
are #1, as with WLW. The FMs are just jealous! LOL!

There are no FMs jelous of stations that have most of their listenership
among listeners over 55. Advertisers want listeners between 18 and 54 or 18
and 49, not over 55. There is no ad money for the older listeners that
predominante on FM.

The figures you constantly mention are for listeners 12+ to death, while
advertisers only want narrow adult demos, over 18 and below 55. This is why
more and more AM news/talk formats are moving to FM or starting an FM
simulcast... because only on FM can they reach the under-55 listeners they
so badly need to survive.


The problem with your analysis is you don't factor out NPR. NPR is a
big deal in FM. If they were commercial, many NPRs would be number
one. Few NPR stations are AM.

Even you, Mr. Commercial Radio, tune into KCRW. Come on, you can tell
me. Nobody is reading this.... ;-)

PocketRadio December 29th 08 01:27 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 3:01�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"PocketRadio" wrote in message

...
"The reason the big boys in the big markets are so pro-IBOC is because
they like the hash as it wipes out distant signals getting into their
market. There is no way to stop skip, but if the IBOC hash wipes the
signal out, then the locals will have to listen to their local
station.

There were no first adjacent AMs making the ratings in any of the "big
markets" to begin with. So what is to gain by stopping something that is not
occurring?


Right - WLW is adjacent to WOR and is ranked #1.

PocketRadio December 29th 08 01:28 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 6:43�pm, elaich wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote :

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening levels are declining faster than ever.


Well, that's funny. I turn on my DX-440 at night, and the AM band is just
as populated as any time I remember. I think you are in denial. These
stations wouldn't be on the air if nobody was listening, would they?

Face it. AM listeners don't need IBOC because they are perfectly happy with
what already exists - a signal that can be listened to with 1920s
technology. It's looking more and more like IBOC was a putup deal with a
corrupt FCC Commissioner, and somewhere down the road, the investigating
body is going to start asking questions about where the money came from.
You wouldn't want to be named then, would you?

IBOC is dying a slow, contracted, but well deserved death. Nobody wanted it
to start with, as sales of receivers will testify.

As a BCB Dxer, I will throw a party the day the last one is shut down.


Eduardo poo-poos AM because AM-HD has been a failure.

Bob Campbell December 29th 08 01:36 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
wrote in message
...

I agree with your assessment of what David thinks, though not your
opinion of the person. He is 100% commercially driven, and the "book"
is everything in the commercial market.


That's because AM radio is a *business*. These stations aren't being run
as a hobby, by people who "love AM radio". They are simply trying to turn
a profit for shareholders. Just like any other business.

They don't care that a few hundred people sometimes catch their signal
hundreds of miles away, when the listener points his antenna in the right
direction, twiddles some knobs in the right direction and the conditions are
good. That is not what they are in business for.





[email protected] December 29th 08 03:09 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
On Dec 28, 8:36 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I agree with your assessment of what David thinks, though not your
opinion of the person. He is 100% commercially driven, and the "book"
is everything in the commercial market.


That's because AM radio is a *business*. These stations aren't being run
as a hobby, by people who "love AM radio". They are simply trying to turn
a profit for shareholders. Just like any other business.

They don't care that a few hundred people sometimes catch their signal
hundreds of miles away, when the listener points his antenna in the right
direction, twiddles some knobs in the right direction and the conditions are
good. That is not what they are in business for.


So.......I guess you're say that hd radio will save them? Really?

Telamon December 29th 08 03:12 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
In article , m II wrote:

Mike wrote:

I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!


KFBK (1530 Sacramento) seems to be using the 'system'. Anyone close by
having any problems? I'm not getting any more noise than normal on
either side of the frequency, but it's a few thousand miles away.


Believe it or not it screws up KVTA 1520 at night. Most nights I get to
hear the bacon frying IBOC sound under the local station about 12 miles
away from me running 1 KW.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon December 29th 08 03:21 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
In article ,
Dave wrote:

m II wrote:
Mike wrote:

I generally avoid the IBOC discussions in this newsgroup, but it
appears that another 50 kW clear channel station has turned it off, at
least at night. WHAS (840 kHz) in Louisville, KY, has had their
nighttime IBOC turned off for at least the last three days. It's been
a great Christmas surprise to be able to clearly receive WCCO (830-
Minneapolis) and KOA (850-Denver) without having to tune out the
annoying IBOC trash.

Way to go!


KFBK (1530 Sacramento) seems to be using the 'system'. Anyone close by
having any problems? I'm not getting any more noise than normal on
either side of the frequency, but it's a few thousand miles away.


Like KNX, KFBK has mild selective fading here. Whenever the fade occurs
the wubba-wubba-wubba-wubba sound comes up. You never used to notice
the slight fades, now they can't be ignored. I suspect this is true of
all AM IBOC stations farther than 30 or 40 miles from the towers.


I get that on at least KOGO, KABC, and KNX.

I can't listen to any station running IBOC using sideband selectable
sync as it generates all kinds of noise and distortion. Usually passband
tuning has to be centered and tuning it off center to pickup the higher
audio frequencies is just makes the station sound worse.

IBOC sucks big time.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon December 29th 08 03:22 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


I haven't noticed that happening around here.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

David Eduardo[_4_] December 29th 08 07:15 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

wrote in message
...

The problem with your analysis is you don't factor out NPR. NPR is a
big deal in FM. If they were commercial, many NPRs would be number
one. Few NPR stations are AM.

I don't factor out NPR, as they are FM and I am discussing AM. NPR stations
are in the ratings, with the best example being KQED in SF which beats KGO
handily in 25-54.

Even you, Mr. Commercial Radio, tune into KCRW. Come on, you can tell
me. Nobody is reading this.... ;-)

I've never listened to KCRW, don't even know it's dial position. In general,
I find the NPR stuff pompous and self-aggrandizing.


David Eduardo[_4_] December 29th 08 07:19 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and
listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


I haven't noticed that happening around here.


AM listening in the Ventura market is now down to 5.4% of listening, off 20%
in the last two years alone. There is nothing there to even think about
moving to FM, as none of them are successful.


David Eduardo[_4_] December 29th 08 07:20 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 8:36 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I agree with your assessment of what David thinks, though not your
opinion of the person. He is 100% commercially driven, and the "book"
is everything in the commercial market.


That's because AM radio is a *business*. These stations aren't being
run
as a hobby, by people who "love AM radio". They are simply trying to
turn
a profit for shareholders. Just like any other business.

They don't care that a few hundred people sometimes catch their signal
hundreds of miles away, when the listener points his antenna in the right
direction, twiddles some knobs in the right direction and the conditions
are
good. That is not what they are in business for.


So.......I guess you're say that hd radio will save them? Really?


Now that PPM measurement is rolling out, nothing will save them.


Brenda Ann December 29th 08 07:29 AM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

The problem with your analysis is you don't factor out NPR. NPR is a
big deal in FM. If they were commercial, many NPRs would be number
one. Few NPR stations are AM.

I don't factor out NPR, as they are FM and I am discussing AM. NPR
stations are in the ratings, with the best example being KQED in SF which
beats KGO handily in 25-54.

Even you, Mr. Commercial Radio, tune into KCRW. Come on, you can tell
me. Nobody is reading this.... ;-)

I've never listened to KCRW, don't even know it's dial position. In
general, I find the NPR stuff pompous and self-aggrandizing.


LOL.. Pot, kettle..




Dave[_18_] December 29th 08 02:01 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Salty,

Shoo troll, find another bridge - we're celebrating the slow, but
sure, death of MW IBOC!

What is dying is AM itself. The major format is moving to FM, and listening
levels are declining faster than ever.


I haven't noticed that happening around here.

It's a lack of imagination. Every Clear Channel AM News Talker sounds
like any other, sounds like any other Citadel AM News Talker, sounds
like any other Emmis AM News Talker, sounds like every CBS News Talker
(we have 2 here KNX and KFWB fon't ask me why). There is no variety to
speak of. The only new thing on the AM is Progressive Talk and that
gets a decent audience in towns where they have a competitive signal and
don't share the time with Hockey or Women's Basketball.

AM used to sound good, before digital tuners and 4 kHz ceramic filters,
and finally IBOC. You used to be able to transmit music and make it
sound good. Now the corporations are clueless, as usual.

Dave[_18_] December 29th 08 02:07 PM

WHAS-AM 840 - No More IBOC!
 
David Eduardo wrote:

wrote in message
...

The problem with your analysis is you don't factor out NPR. NPR is a
big deal in FM. If they were commercial, many NPRs would be number
one. Few NPR stations are AM.

I don't factor out NPR, as they are FM and I am discussing AM. NPR
stations are in the ratings, with the best example being KQED in SF
which beats KGO handily in 25-54.

Even you, Mr. Commercial Radio, tune into KCRW. Come on, you can tell
me. Nobody is reading this.... ;-)

I've never listened to KCRW, don't even know it's dial position. In
general, I find the NPR stuff pompous and self-aggrandizing.


KCRW is primarily a music station w/ NPR News and self-produced public
affairs. They run Morning Edition, a local Public Affairs show at Noon.
News features until 4. ATC until 7. More PA until 8. The rest is music.

They serve the local community quite well, and the fact that you never
listen is painfully obvious.

They are at various dial positions, depending on where you are. The
main signal from the K-JOY tower is on 89.9 MHz.


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