On Jan 10, 4:04*am, radioguy wrote:
These people didn't care that hams help provide emergency services.

They still wanted the ham tower completely gone.

I wonder who won. Click on

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...tennazoning.co....
Lets be honest here and not confuse the desire to erect and use large
antenna structures to facilitate DX'ing and other radio pursuits with
the proposition of providing 'emergency communications'. I would
guess that 99.9% of the ham population never has or ever will provide
the types of 'emergency communications' to which you refer in support
of the erection of large towers and antenna arrays in deference to
zoning restrictions. Even while a vast majority continually chase the
holy grail of possessing a 'Big Gun' signal on the air. The argument
sounds great till you actually tune around the bands during normal,
every day activity and maybe once in a while during a real emergency.
What you hear is the daily 'playing' of big gun radio operation.
Excessive power, excessive bandwidth used and nothing short of
electronic bullying/boasting of my signal is bigger than your signal.
When an emergency does occur a relatively small number of big gun
stations (usually located away from the big cities on large tracts of
expensive, desirable out of the way land where restrictions and
covenants do not even come into play) handling the brunt of the
communications. And a few passersbyes who may just listen or possibly
check in to alternate 'controll the onlookers' nets, so they can tell
their buddys and the uninitiated that they were helping out with one
disaster or another before they get bored with the whole thing and
move on to the latest must have dx or contest contact.
Lets be real. Nothing wrong with Dx'ing and Contesting or any other
facet of the hobby. But know that these are the real reason behind
many off the cuff fan the flame posts in support of knocking down
zoning rules and not a 'real' desire to provide an at the ready
emergency communications setup.
Been around long enough to know that truth!

Joe wrote:
On Jan 10, 4:04 am, radioguy wrote:
These people didn't care that hams help provide emergency services.

They still wanted the ham tower completely gone.

I wonder who won. Click on

I would
guess that 99.9% of the ham population never has or ever will provide
the types of 'emergency communications' to which you refer...

So?

The point is that the more hams there are the more likely that the 1-out
-of-a-thousand that you refer to is in a place where he can do some good
if an emergency breaks out.

In article
,
radioguy wrote:

On Jan 10, 9:07*am, Joe wrote:
On Jan 10, 4:04*am, radioguy wrote: These people
didn't care that hams help provide emergency services.

They still wanted the ham tower completely gone.

I wonder who won. Click on

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...tennazoning.co...

Lets be honest here and not confuse the desire to erect and use
large antenna structures to facilitate DX'ing and other radio
pursuits with the proposition of providing 'emergency
communications'. *I would guess that 99.9% of the ham population
never has or ever will provide the types of 'emergency
communications' to which you refer in support of the erection of
large towers and antenna arrays in deference to zoning
restrictions. Even while a vast majority continually chase the holy
grail of possessing a 'Big Gun' signal on the air. *The argument
sounds great till you actually tune around the bands during normal,
every day activity and maybe once in a while during a real
emergency. What you hear is the daily 'playing' of big gun radio
operation. Excessive power, excessive bandwidth used and nothing
short of electronic bullying/boasting of my signal is bigger than
your signal. When an emergency does occur a relatively small number
of big gun stations (usually located away from the big cities on
large tracts of expensive, desirable out of the way land where
restrictions and covenants do not even come into play) handling the
brunt of the communications. And a few passersbyes who may just
listen or possibly check in to alternate 'controll the onlookers'
nets, so they can tell their buddys and the uninitiated that they
were helping out with one disaster or another before they get bored
with the whole thing and move on to the latest must have dx or
contest contact. Lets be real. *Nothing wrong with Dx'ing and
Contesting or any other facet of the hobby. *But know that these
are the real reason behind many off the cuff fan the flame posts in
support of knocking down zoning rules and not a 'real' desire to
provide an at the ready emergency communications setup. Been around
long enough to know that truth!

While you're correct, that was the excuse the ham in the article
used. At least according to the article.

I never noticed any excessive bandwidth hogging on ham radio. Unless
it's either the hi-fi ssb I heard about which the FCC was illegal
aince it was hogging the bandwidth. However, if that's so, then that
also makes using AM on ham radio illegal.

And several people still use AM mode on ham radio.

Or unless it's using FM on 2 meters and 70 centimeters where an AM
signal would take up much less space.

Why don't you guys ever bring up the technology? The original reason
the government wanted to license the public to use the spectrum was for
the general public to be able to use the communications technology that
drives the economy and provides people with useful skills for the armed
services. The government has always recognized this as a way to
encourage citizens to become familure with electronics and
communications technologies.

The complete ass-backward thinking in this country started with denying
citizens utilization of natural resources over the last couple of
decades and now is extended to the use of technology. Now we are just
supposed to be users of technology that we have to buy from other third
world countries.

This retarded natural resource thinking has now cumulated into "global
warming" BS spewed by the resource hog AL Utterly Boring Gore and Ham
operators are just good consumers these days.

We are just setting ourselves up for a fall.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Jan 10, 9:07*am, Joe wrote:

Lets be real. *Nothing wrong with Dx'ing and Contesting or any other
facet of the hobby. *But know that these are the real reason behind
many off the cuff fan the flame posts in support of knocking down
zoning rules

Agree with Joe. The emergency communication thing is just and excuse.
If they really want something that can help during an emergency, they
should buy a satellite phone. Would also be a lot of cheaper. They've
already got a 40 foot high antenna which is more than adequate for
emergency communications in the Hartford area.

RHF wrote:


Honestly - If everyone wanted and needed Emergency
Communications and the US Government wanted it's
Citizens to have Emergency Communications.

Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :

1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service

2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service

3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio

Will you quit being a dip****? Have you ever been in an emergency e.g.
flash flood or wildfire? Do you think there are enough paid emergency
personnel to cover every street closure? To spot weather? To relay
information to the media?

Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere.

On Jan 11, 5:22*am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

Honestly - If everyone wanted and needed Emergency
Communications and the US Government wanted it's
Citizens to have Emergency Communications.

Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
*would have one or all three of these :

1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service

2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service

3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio

- Will you quit being a dip****? *Have you ever been in an emergency
e.g.
- flash flood or wildfire? *Do you think there are enough paid
emergency
- personnel to cover every street closure? *To spot weather? *To relay
- information to the media?
-
- Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere.

Dave,

When the Power Goes "Off" for an Hour or More : Then
Everyone Lives in the Middle of an Electrical NoWhere :
* No{Where} AC for the TV / Radio
* No{Where} AC for the Internet / PC
* No{Where} AC for the Lights / Heater
* No{Where} AC for the Microwave / Coffee Pot
* No{Where} AC for the Refrigerator / Stove
* No{Where} AC for the Washer / Dryer
* * The 'basic' Home Phone may work but the
Cordless Phone and Cellphone just might not.
The only place most people have with News,
Lights and Heat is Setting in their Car or Truck
with the Engine Running and that is not good
to do in their Garages. {Best Done Outdoors
in the Drive Way and Off the Street.}

Dave - So it is 'being' a Dip**** to recommended that :
"Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :

1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service

2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service

3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio

PLUS a 'Mandatory' Crank-Up and Battery
Powered Emergency AM & FM Radio
http://www.windandweather.com/produc...76&ref=product
http://www.weatherradiostore.com/mfg...=Eton&itmky=59....

The-Bottom-Line : The Hams along can not
'do it' for the People : The People Have To
"Do It" For Themselves ~ RHF

RHF wrote:
On Jan 11, 5:22 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

Honestly - If everyone wanted and needed Emergency
Communications and the US Government wanted it's
Citizens to have Emergency Communications.
Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :
1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service
2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service
3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio

- Will you quit being a dip****? Have you ever been in an emergency
e.g.
- flash flood or wildfire? Do you think there are enough paid
emergency
- personnel to cover every street closure? To spot weather? To relay
- information to the media?
-
- Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere.

Dave,

When the Power Goes "Off" for an Hour or More : Then
Everyone Lives in the Middle of an Electrical NoWhere :
* No{Where} AC for the TV / Radio
* No{Where} AC for the Internet / PC
* No{Where} AC for the Lights / Heater
* No{Where} AC for the Microwave / Coffee Pot
* No{Where} AC for the Refrigerator / Stove
* No{Where} AC for the Washer / Dryer
* * The 'basic' Home Phone may work but the
Cordless Phone and Cellphone just might not.
The only place most people have with News,
Lights and Heat is Setting in their Car or Truck
with the Engine Running and that is not good
to do in their Garages. {Best Done Outdoors
in the Drive Way and Off the Street.}

Dave - So it is 'being' a Dip**** to recommended that :
"Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :

1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service

2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service

3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio


Not everyone is comfortable on a two-way radio.

In message , Dave
writes
RHF wrote:
On Jan 11, 5:22 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

Honestly - If everyone wanted and needed Emergency
Communications and the US Government wanted it's
Citizens to have Emergency Communications.
Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :
1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service
2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service
3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
- Will you quit being a dip****? Have you ever been in an emergency
e.g.
- flash flood or wildfire? Do you think there are enough paid
emergency
- personnel to cover every street closure? To spot weather? To relay
- information to the media?
-
- Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere.
Dave,
When the Power Goes "Off" for an Hour or More : Then
Everyone Lives in the Middle of an Electrical NoWhere :
* No{Where} AC for the TV / Radio
* No{Where} AC for the Internet / PC
* No{Where} AC for the Lights / Heater
* No{Where} AC for the Microwave / Coffee Pot
* No{Where} AC for the Refrigerator / Stove
* No{Where} AC for the Washer / Dryer
* * The 'basic' Home Phone may work but the
Cordless Phone and Cellphone just might not.
The only place most people have with News,
Lights and Heat is Setting in their Car or Truck
with the Engine Running and that is not good
to do in their Garages. {Best Done Outdoors
in the Drive Way and Off the Street.}
Dave - So it is 'being' a Dip**** to recommended that :
"Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
would have one or all three of these :
1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service
2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service
3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio


Not everyone is comfortable on a two-way radio.

In a real emergency, the would soon learn to be 'comfortable'!
--
Ian

On Jan 11, 4:00*pm, wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:41 pm, SC Dxing wrote:

On Jan 11, 3:23 pm, RHF wrote:

A hurricane/snow storm can easily take out any antenna tower.

So me evidence to back up your claims. I've had multiple towers in
many locations and I've never lost one to a snow storm, ice storm,
hurricane, or tornado. *Usually, the tower is the one thing that
survives.

Then you need electricity

Generators are fairly plentiful and run for days on 200 gallons of
propane.

Then you need someone who is going to listen on the
other side.

And hams do listen 24/7, somewhere in the world someone is always
listening. During Katrina, thounsands of traffic messages were passed,
as has many messages been handled during a lot of the ice storms this
season up North.

My wife works for emergency services and not a single
emergency scenario involves using ham radio operators.

Then they are not utilizing all the resources available to them.
Thankfully, my community involves all legitimate parties during every
emergency exercise, including ham radio ops, but CB radio and FRS are
never included because the folks who own FRS want to have a family CB
service, and CB radio ops are too busy trying to play who has the
biggest illegal amplfier. The users of CB and FRS do not have an
interest in emergency coms until something happens, then they show up
untrained, uncoordinated, and become an hinderance to any on going
operations.

If anything, *CB radio or mobile UHF/VHF device would be more reliable.

Hams use UHF and VHF, so your point is??? And mobile CB is useless
more than 5-10 miles away unless you are running illegal power.

And a stationary HAM radio can only be used in one location.

And can relay messages locally from roving ops checking on health and
welfare, as well Statewide, Country wide, and World wide. *Don't
forget that hams work in coordination with each other, some mobile,
and someone at the base with a tower relaying the information locally
or statewide as necessary.

Not very good, if you are going around house to house checking on people in an
emergency.

But ham radio can be used both portable and base, a repeater statioin
also comes to mind as a coordinated effort that has proven itself time
and time again.

A stationary tower is probably the worst choice for
emergency communications.

Why. Every emergeny service in the US uses stationary stations with
towers as the hub to their operations.

Satellite phone. Never ever goes out as long as you got it charged.
Never.

Most folks are not going to pay the outlandish monthly fees for a
satellite phone + air time. *The only reason your sat phone works is
because not many folks have them. *Just imagine if everyone had a sat
phone instead of a cell phone. *I can tell you from experience that on
September 11, the whole cell phone infrastructure crashed and was not
operable.

If everyone had sat phones, it would overload the capablility of the
sat, and your phone would be worthless.



sounds more like a towering monument to
someone's personal status and ego ~ RHF
.

Agreed. There was a time when a HAM radio operator was a real asset in
a disaster. But with the advances in technology, especially portable
communications, those days have passed.

So where were all of the so called advances when Katrina took out the
Gulf Coast? Or during the recent ice storms up North. *Hams have
activiely assisted on both events and every major emergency in
between.

BTW, Which emergency organization does your wife work for, I would
like to find out why they are not adhering to the policies set forth
in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) 2007 Appropriations Act
(HR 5441). Which indicates that Amateur Radio should be incorperated
into the contingent plans by all communities for emergency and
disaster prepardness.

DL

DL - You are thinking like a HAM : Who Is Prepared :
You may be able to help a few or many -but-What
about the hundreds of 'others' in need of H-E-L-P too ?

But the Average Citizen is NOT prepared : That Has
Got To Change : Putting a FRS, GMRS, and/or CB
Radio in the Hands of American Household can make
it possible to HELP Hundreds of People in Need.
Every Citizen a Neighbor and Neightbors Helping
Neighbors in their Local Neighborhoods. ~ RHF

On Jan 11, 2:30*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:12:40 -0800 (PST), RHF



wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:09*am, Dave wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Dave
writes
RHF wrote:
On Jan 11, 5:22 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

Honestly - If everyone wanted and needed Emergency
Communications and the US Government wanted it's
Citizens to have Emergency Communications.
Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
*would have one or all three of these :
1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service
2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service
3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
*- Will you quit being a dip****? *Have you ever been in an emergency
e.g.
- flash flood or wildfire? *Do you think there are enough paid
emergency
- personnel to cover every street closure? *To spot weather? *To relay
- information to the media?
-
- Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere.
*Dave,
*When the Power Goes "Off" for an Hour or More : Then
Everyone Lives in the Middle of an Electrical NoWhere :
* No{Where} AC for the TV / Radio
* No{Where} AC for the Internet / PC
* No{Where} AC for the Lights / Heater
* No{Where} AC for the Microwave / Coffee Pot
* No{Where} AC for the Refrigerator / Stove
* No{Where} AC for the Washer / Dryer
* * The 'basic' Home Phone may work but the
Cordless Phone and Cellphone just might not.
The only place most people have with News,
Lights and Heat is Setting in their Car or Truck
with the Engine Running and that is not good
to do in their Garages. {Best Done Outdoors
in the Drive Way and Off the Street.}
*Dave - So it is 'being' a Dip**** to recommended *that :
"Then Every US Household and Every Car and Truck
*would have one or all three of these :
*1 - Family Radio Service (FRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service
*2 - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._Radio_Service
*3 - Citizens' Band (CB) Radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio

Not everyone is comfortable on a two-way radio.

In a real emergency, the would soon learn to be 'comfortable'!

- An FRS radio goes a few miles.
-*I can reach all of North America 24/7.
- Amateur Radio is often the only
- infrastructure that survives a calamity.

And if the local Hams in a Neighborhood had a Plan
to go to the local Neighborhood Fire Stations and
not only man Amateur Radio by FRS, GMRS and
CB then they would be Helping All the People in
Need within the '"Few [Square] Miles" of their own
local Neighborhood.

The-Bottom-Line : Helping Your Neighbors In
A Local Emergency Does Not Require a Nation
Wide ComLine. Reliable Local Communications
Is What Is Required To Identify People In-Need
And Get Them H-E-L-P !

Lets See 5~10 Amateur Radio Operators -or-
50~200 Local Citizens with FRS, GMRS and
CB Radios in each Local Neighborhood: I Say
Go With The Local Citizens.

idtars ~ RHF
.

- Some of us hams use radios that are WIDE OPEN!
- Try talking to FEMA with FRS.

That is simply Bad Planning on FEMA and the
Local Responders parts.

1 - A Localized Plan that includes HAMs and FRS,
GMRS and CB Radios for a Total Neighborhood
Emergency Communications System.

2 - Put Scanners, FRS, GMRS and CB Radios in every
Local Fire Station.

3 - Put FRS, GMRS and CB Radios in every American
Home.

4 - Put a 10 Watt LPFM Emergency Alert Transmitter
in every Local Fire Station so that every American Home
an tune into their Local Neighborhood's Emergency News
Put a Ham on the Mic. Better require every Local Five
Department to have 1/3rd of their Firemen to have an
FCC Amateur Radio License; and Trained as Emergency
Communications Operators in the use of FRS, GMRS
and CB Radios and the 10 Watt LPFM Emergency Alert
Transmitter.

5 - Make It Mandatory that Every American Household
has a Crank-Up {Battery} AM/FM Radio for Emergency
Neighborhood Communications News.

idtars ~ RHF