On May 19, 3:38*pm, Drifter wrote:
On 5/19/2010 3:23 PM, dave wrote:





bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 7:51 am, Drifter wrote:
On 5/19/2010 9:06 AM, dave wrote:

Gregg wrote:
OK. I cleaned out my mini barn on the back part of my property. It now
looks like what I wanted when I had it build. I've got two shelves up
and I'm going to add six more throughout the area.
It is now primed and ready for me to bring some of my equipment out
there. I brought out the lasy susan table and my GE P780 and later
today I'm going to bring the DX398 out there. I have my Pop Comm / MT
mags - my killer rocking chair :-) - I've been having fun.
Even though I live in a pretty good area whereas there isn't much RFI
to deal with, I did notice a big difference just being roughly 70 ft.

Be sure to keep a couple of rat traps in your barn/shed.
cuhulin

On May 19, 4:40*pm, Gregg wrote:
On May 19, 3:38*pm, Drifter wrote:





On 5/19/2010 3:23 PM, dave wrote:

bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 7:51 am, Drifter wrote:
On 5/19/2010 9:06 AM, dave wrote:

Gregg wrote:
OK. I cleaned out my mini barn on the back part of my property. It now
looks like what I wanted when I had it build. I've got two shelves up
and I'm going to add six more throughout the area.
It is now primed and ready for me to bring some of my equipment out
there. I brought out the lasy susan table and my GE P780 and later
today I'm going to bring the DX398 out there. I have my Pop Comm / MT
mags - my killer rocking chair :-) - I've been having fun.
Even though I live in a pretty good area whereas there isn't much RFI
to deal with, I did notice a big difference just being roughly 70 ft.
away from the house.
OK - here is the question. With the GE and even the 398 I suppose.. I
ran a length of 12 gauge to my AD DX Sloper with a alligator clip and
ran it back to the GE. My thinking was that I could couple that to
both of my radios that way, which I did with the GE already- along
with having my loop out there. Will this work? I noticed a big
difference out there, but I was only out there for maybe 45 minutes
and it was around 5pm - so I don't know if the radio came alive just
because I was away from everything or because I hooked up to the
antenna. Any comments would be appreciated.
Antenna overload will be your enemy. Figure a way to couple the energy
to the receivers without swamping the front-ends.
Gregg. I have to go with Dave on this. the 398 has a lose front-end, and
almost any bit of wire over 20 ft. will give you trouble. i would
say the less hash is your big winner. that sloper is a real keeper, but
I would try your set-up on a few desk tops. I believe you will see a
bigger difference, from the house out there. it's like going from a
random long wire, to a good loop. you really don't receive more, you
just "hear" more. a lot of those low signals have always been there,
but now they kind of jump out at you. sounds like a cool set up. is
your barn dry? if you keep your receivers there, ya gotta watch the
humidity. and don't forget the winter cold, ya don't want to kill
a good receiver. have fun.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have used my DX-398 (Radiolabs mods) with my Alpha Delta DX-ULTRA
and a 60-foot wire outside, with lots of MW blowtorches nearby (like 2
- 50 kW stations within 2 miles on salt flats and another 5 miles away
or so, plus several others not far), and on SW anyway, it is no worse
than any other radio. They all get some level of images below 3.5
MHz, bit nothing serious above. If I got even ten miles away from
this crummy place, most of that would cease too.

The 398, for real signals, leaps ahead dramatically with an external
wire or active antenna. The built-in whip is too weak - because, as I
understand it, Sangean places a resistor either in series with the
darn thing, or across to the ground, either of which is a dumb idea
and both of which are bypassed by the external antenna socket(s) :-/

Bruce
Is that the Sangean ATS909? It has a real front end.

Dave, i believe he has the super 398. I'm not sure what all the mods
are from radiolabs. but, Bruce is not the first person to state this.
i guess they do something on the front end of this port. if it behaves
on the DX-ultra, it's doing great. i have one here in a tight inverted
V , and it works super.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's right Drifter. Here is the site and specs.http://www.radiolabs.com/products/re...s/super909.php

Yepp, they gave mine that treatment too. Very nice :-) The sound and
sensitivity and selectivity are all significantly improved, has a real
RF Gain control and well-chosen narrow/wide filters. Me like!

Bruce

On May 19, 10:55*pm, wrote:
Be sure to keep a couple of rat traps in your barn/shed.
cuhulin

Ha! It's cool Cuh, not that there aren't critters around (because
there are) but I've never seen a rat in my area before. Lots of
coons / bunny wabbits / squirrels / some kittie cats. But I have to
say, the barn/shed was built like freeking Noah's Ark, if you can
overdo a small area like that....IMO it was overdone and I literally
paid for it $$$ - but that's cool. I'll measure it today so you guys
have a better idea, it's not a big space, but it was built like a mini
barn - but not as big as a barn - follow me? But definitely more than
enough room to store my extra kitchen set / ladders/shovels etc. stuff
like that.

On May 19, 11:05*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 4:40*pm, Gregg wrote:





On May 19, 3:38*pm, Drifter wrote:

On 5/19/2010 3:23 PM, dave wrote:

bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 7:51 am, Drifter wrote:
On 5/19/2010 9:06 AM, dave wrote:

Gregg wrote:
OK. I cleaned out my mini barn on the back part of my property. It now
looks like what I wanted when I had it build. I've got two shelves up
and I'm going to add six more throughout the area.
It is now primed and ready for me to bring some of my equipment out
there. I brought out the lasy susan table and my GE P780 and later
today I'm going to bring the DX398 out there. I have my Pop Comm / MT
mags - my killer rocking chair :-) - I've been having fun.
Even though I live in a pretty good area whereas there isn't much RFI
to deal with, I did notice a big difference just being roughly 70 ft.
away from the house.
OK - here is the question. With the GE and even the 398 I suppose. I
ran a length of 12 gauge to my AD DX Sloper with a alligator clip and
ran it back to the GE. My thinking was that I could couple that to
both of my radios that way, which I did with the GE already- along
with having my loop out there. Will this work? I noticed a big
difference out there, but I was only out there for maybe 45 minutes
and it was around 5pm - so I don't know if the radio came alive just
because I was away from everything or because I hooked up to the
antenna. Any comments would be appreciated.
Antenna overload will be your enemy. Figure a way to couple the energy
to the receivers without swamping the front-ends.
Gregg. I have to go with Dave on this. the 398 has a lose front-end, and
almost any bit of wire over 20 ft. will give you trouble. i would
say the less hash is your big winner. that sloper is a real keeper, but
I would try your set-up on a few desk tops. I believe you will see a
bigger difference, from the house out there. it's like going from a
random long wire, to a good loop. you really don't receive more, you
just "hear" more. a lot of those low signals have always been there,
but now they kind of jump out at you. sounds like a cool set up. is
your barn dry? if you keep your receivers there, ya gotta watch the
humidity. and don't forget the winter cold, ya don't want to kill
a good receiver. have fun.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have used my DX-398 (Radiolabs mods) with my Alpha Delta DX-ULTRA
and a 60-foot wire outside, with lots of MW blowtorches nearby (like 2
- 50 kW stations within 2 miles on salt flats and another 5 miles away
or so, plus several others not far), and on SW anyway, it is no worse
than any other radio. They all get some level of images below 3.5
MHz, bit nothing serious above. If I got even ten miles away from
this crummy place, most of that would cease too.

The 398, for real signals, leaps ahead dramatically with an external
wire or active antenna. The built-in whip is too weak - because, as I
understand it, Sangean places a resistor either in series with the
darn thing, or across to the ground, either of which is a dumb idea
and both of which are bypassed by the external antenna socket(s) :-/

Bruce
Is that the Sangean ATS909? It has a real front end.

Dave, i believe he has the super 398. I'm not sure what all the mods
are from radiolabs. but, Bruce is not the first person to state this.
i guess they do something on the front end of this port. if it behaves
on the DX-ultra, it's doing great. i have one here in a tight inverted
V , and it works super.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's right Drifter. Here is the site and specs.http://www.radiolabs.com/products/re...s/super909.php

Yepp, they gave mine that treatment too. *Very nice :-) *The sound and
sensitivity and selectivity are all significantly improved, has a real
RF Gain control and well-chosen narrow/wide filters. *Me like!

Bruce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No doubt Bruce. I did my own little mod myself after they returned it.
On the tuning knob, I used the cap of some tuner cleaner I had - and
it fit "perfectly" over the tuning knob.

At least for me, the tuning knob was a little small - not that big a
deal - but I wanted something bigger.

It ( the cap mod) looks like it was made with it. I used three of
those little square shaped sticky things, they're yellow in color,
they were made to stick things to whatever....they're like little
squares of chewing gum. The mod has never come off on it's own, maybe
a year ago I took it off to see how easy it would pull off and I
wanted to clean the mod cap because it's white in color. But it
definitely makes it easier to spin the dial. :-)

On May 19, 11:05*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 4:40*pm, Gregg wrote:





On May 19, 3:38*pm, Drifter wrote:

On 5/19/2010 3:23 PM, dave wrote:

bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 7:51 am, Drifter wrote:
On 5/19/2010 9:06 AM, dave wrote:

Gregg wrote:
OK. I cleaned out my mini barn on the back part of my property. It now
looks like what I wanted when I had it build. I've got two shelves up
and I'm going to add six more throughout the area.
It is now primed and ready for me to bring some of my equipment out
there. I brought out the lasy susan table and my GE P780 and later
today I'm going to bring the DX398 out there. I have my Pop Comm / MT
mags - my killer rocking chair :-) - I've been having fun.
Even though I live in a pretty good area whereas there isn't much RFI
to deal with, I did notice a big difference just being roughly 70 ft.
away from the house.
OK - here is the question. With the GE and even the 398 I suppose. I
ran a length of 12 gauge to my AD DX Sloper with a alligator clip and
ran it back to the GE. My thinking was that I could couple that to
both of my radios that way, which I did with the GE already- along
with having my loop out there. Will this work? I noticed a big
difference out there, but I was only out there for maybe 45 minutes
and it was around 5pm - so I don't know if the radio came alive just
because I was away from everything or because I hooked up to the
antenna. Any comments would be appreciated.
Antenna overload will be your enemy. Figure a way to couple the energy
to the receivers without swamping the front-ends.
Gregg. I have to go with Dave on this. the 398 has a lose front-end, and
almost any bit of wire over 20 ft. will give you trouble. i would
say the less hash is your big winner. that sloper is a real keeper, but
I would try your set-up on a few desk tops. I believe you will see a
bigger difference, from the house out there. it's like going from a
random long wire, to a good loop. you really don't receive more, you
just "hear" more. a lot of those low signals have always been there,
but now they kind of jump out at you. sounds like a cool set up. is
your barn dry? if you keep your receivers there, ya gotta watch the
humidity. and don't forget the winter cold, ya don't want to kill
a good receiver. have fun.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have used my DX-398 (Radiolabs mods) with my Alpha Delta DX-ULTRA
and a 60-foot wire outside, with lots of MW blowtorches nearby (like 2
- 50 kW stations within 2 miles on salt flats and another 5 miles away
or so, plus several others not far), and on SW anyway, it is no worse
than any other radio. They all get some level of images below 3.5
MHz, bit nothing serious above. If I got even ten miles away from
this crummy place, most of that would cease too.

The 398, for real signals, leaps ahead dramatically with an external
wire or active antenna. The built-in whip is too weak - because, as I
understand it, Sangean places a resistor either in series with the
darn thing, or across to the ground, either of which is a dumb idea
and both of which are bypassed by the external antenna socket(s) :-/

Bruce
Is that the Sangean ATS909? It has a real front end.

Dave, i believe he has the super 398. I'm not sure what all the mods
are from radiolabs. but, Bruce is not the first person to state this.
i guess they do something on the front end of this port. if it behaves
on the DX-ultra, it's doing great. i have one here in a tight inverted
V , and it works super.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's right Drifter. Here is the site and specs.http://www.radiolabs.com/products/re...s/super909.php

Yepp, they gave mine that treatment too. *Very nice :-) *The sound and
sensitivity and selectivity are all significantly improved, has a real
RF Gain control and well-chosen narrow/wide filters. *Me like!

Bruce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bruce, I forgot to ask you. What do you keep your "tone" on? They have
the normal/ talk ( I think)/ and music. Before I sent mine to RL I had
to keep it set on talk. But when they sent it back to me - I couldn't
believe the difference in the audio. It was so much better, that I
keep my setting on "music" for everything and it sounds great.

On May 19, 11:58*am, bpnjensen wrote:
On May 19, 7:51*am, Drifter wrote:





On 5/19/2010 9:06 AM, dave wrote:

Gregg wrote:
OK. I cleaned out my mini barn on the back part of my property. It now
looks like what I wanted when I had it build. I've got two shelves up
and I'm going to add six more throughout the area.

It is now primed and ready for me to bring some of my equipment out
there. I brought out the lasy susan table and my GE P780 and later
today I'm going to bring the DX398 out there. I have my Pop Comm / MT
mags - my killer rocking chair :-) - I've been having fun.

Even though I live in a pretty good area whereas there isn't much RFI
to deal with, I did notice a big difference just being roughly 70 ft..
away from the house.

OK - here is the question. With the GE and even the 398 I suppose. I
ran a length of 12 gauge to my AD DX Sloper with a alligator clip and
ran it back to the GE. My thinking was that I could couple that to
both of my radios that way, which I did with the GE already- along
with having my loop out there. Will this work? I noticed a big
difference out there, but I was only out there for maybe 45 minutes
and it was around 5pm - so I don't know if the radio came alive just
because I was away from everything or because I hooked up to the
antenna. Any comments would be appreciated.

Antenna overload will be your enemy. Figure a way to couple the energy
to the receivers without swamping the front-ends.

Gregg. I have to go with Dave on this. the 398 has a lose front-end, and
almost any bit of wire over 20 ft. will give you trouble. i would
say the less hash is your big winner. that sloper is a real keeper, but
I would try your set-up on a few desk tops. I believe you will see a
bigger difference, from the house out there. it's like going from a
random long wire, to a good loop. you really don't receive more, you
just "hear" more. a lot of those low signals have always been there,
but now they kind of jump out at you. sounds like a cool set up. is
your barn dry? if you keep your receivers there, ya gotta watch the
humidity. and don't forget the winter cold, ya don't want to kill
a good receiver. have fun.

Drifter...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have used my DX-398 (Radiolabs mods) with my Alpha Delta DX-ULTRA
and a 60-foot wire outside, with lots of MW blowtorches nearby (like 2
- 50 kW stations within 2 miles on salt flats and another 5 miles away
or so, plus several others not far), and on SW anyway, it is no worse
than any other radio. *They all get some level of images below 3.5
MHz, bit nothing serious above. *If I got even ten miles away from
this crummy place, most of that would cease too.

The 398, for real signals, leaps ahead dramatically with an external
wire or active antenna. *The built-in whip is too weak - because, as I
understand it, Sangean places a resistor either in series with the
darn thing, or across to the ground, either of which is a dumb idea
and both of which are bypassed by the external antenna socket(s) :-/

Bruce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just so you know, RL either includes the mod for the whip or if you
asked them to do it they would. I got my 398 basically as soon as they
came out. I kind of had mixed feelings on Chris Justice for the drama
between him and Grove (I'm sure you read the story), it was pretty
hairy on both sides IMO.

But when I sent mine to Chris he had just broke away from Grove and I
think I was one of the first to get mine modded....I'm not saying
literally the first but you know what I mean. But I had asked him
about the whip and he wasn't quite sure at the time if I remember
right but later he sent me an email explaining to me why the whip
sucked and that he would take care of it. After he started modding the
398/909's in earnest I noticed that ( I think) there was no mention of
doing anything to the whip itself on their site....I don't know - I
could be wrong. {?}

But when I got mine back there was a HUGE difference just off the whip
itself - in a way it ****ed me off that the radio wasn't like that
from go get. But I've never even used the original external antenna
jack or the add on antenna socket on the back of the case he added.
I've always just used a little length of 12 gauge and rolled it up
real tight and placed it over the whip itself with a quarter inch of
wire showing and clipped onto that. Have you used the add on antenna
socket he put on the back of your radio? Do you like it - good
results?

On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:
Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.



Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

On May 20, 7:19*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:

Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.

* *Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

* *Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

* *Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

* *There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. *After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

* *The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

Thanks for the response Peter. You would think though (at least I do)
that they're having these radio done overseas where the pay is
miniscule in comparison to the US to begin. I mean, how much money per
radio do these guys have to make for it to be feasible to put out on
the market? You know what I'm saying? I guess if the 909/398 was all
done over here by US workers the price would have been close to a
thousand dollars or a little more, no wonder this country has dipped
like it has. FWIW the dreadful 394 with the mods out performs the
modded 909/398, at least it did at my QTH using the same antenna. That
was just a two to three hour test - might be different on a different
day who knows - but the modified 394 really does perform well or it'd
be in my closet.

On 5/20/10 07:35 , Gregg wrote:
On May 20, 7:19 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:

Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.

Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

Thanks for the response Peter. You would think though (at least I do)
that they're having these radio done overseas where the pay is
miniscule in comparison to the US to begin. I mean, how much money per
radio do these guys have to make for it to be feasible to put out on
the market? You know what I'm saying?


Yeah, I do. But consider that though labor for manufacture may be
lower, the practical issues of manufacturing don't change. Parts
must still be sourced. Designs have to be made
manufacture-compatible. The way things move down the assembly line
do have an impact on how things can be practically built. In the
end, the price of labor can be a smaller issue compared to the cost
of a more advanced design on the assembly line. Using foreign labor
may make a $200 difference in price of a radio. A more advanced
design may make a much greater difference. So, regardless of labor
costs, compromises are made.

During a CES, in the early 90's, I got to meet David Belles, an
audio designer of some repute. He had built an amp that was to be
manufactured by and sold through Magnum Dynalab. He was an
interesting guy, and his amplifier was simply magnificent.

It never made it to production. Why? Because, as designed, it
simply could not be practically manufactured. Even at the price
point, which was quite steep already. So, the engineers at Magnum
Dynalab, no slouches in their own right, looked at the Belles design
and proposed modifications that would be more manufacture-friendly.
Belles insisted that subtleties of performance would be compromised,
and resisted. The project was dropped.

Many things beyond just labor may affect how a product comes to
the assembly line.


I guess if the 909/398 was all
done over here by US workers the price would have been close to a
thousand dollars or a little more, no wonder this country has dipped
like it has. FWIW the dreadful 394 with the mods out performs the
modded 909/398, at least it did at my QTH using the same antenna. That
was just a two to three hour test - might be different on a different
day who knows - but the modified 394 really does perform well or it'd
be in my closet.

I have no doubt.