On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:
Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.



Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

On May 20, 7:19*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:

Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.

* *Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

* *Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

* *Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

* *There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. *After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

* *The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

Thanks for the response Peter. You would think though (at least I do)
that they're having these radio done overseas where the pay is
miniscule in comparison to the US to begin. I mean, how much money per
radio do these guys have to make for it to be feasible to put out on
the market? You know what I'm saying? I guess if the 909/398 was all
done over here by US workers the price would have been close to a
thousand dollars or a little more, no wonder this country has dipped
like it has. FWIW the dreadful 394 with the mods out performs the
modded 909/398, at least it did at my QTH using the same antenna. That
was just a two to three hour test - might be different on a different
day who knows - but the modified 394 really does perform well or it'd
be in my closet.

On 5/20/10 07:35 , Gregg wrote:
On May 20, 7:19 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 5/19/10 18:35 , Gregg wrote:

Exactly Bruce. I just don't understand why these companies don't do it
right the first time. IMO- both the 398/909 and the DX394 were
basically nothing I could use when I bought them new and actually I
thought there wouldn't be much of a difference, but what a difference
those receivers are now with all the mods.

Products like these radios are manufactured to a price point. To
keep a profit in the line, every shortcut that can be taken, must
be. The end product is usually a shade of its potential self.

Peter G, here, has often recommended some staightforward upgrades
to receivers that include swapping diodes, and making mods to
circuitry that cost the end user little, and could well have been
done at the beginning, during manufacture. But we don't know what
decisions are made by the manufacturer to keep the product at its
price point. Or, if compromises are not made, what the actual cost
differential may be.

Parts sources dry up, some parts are discontinued, and
replacements must be found. In a lot of cases, manufacturers take a
shortcut such as found in your 398/909, and the dreadful DX394, and
avoid more advanced designs or using some types of part in the first
place, both to facilitate a long production cycle, and to retain the
price point.

There was a discussion in this newsgroup about 15 years, ago
about a function that was missing from a radio, I don't recall
which, but the solution was the addition of a single switch. Which
many users had done. After much talk, and many complaints, someone
from the manufacturer jumped in and said that they were aware that
the solution was simple, but that adding the switch at the
manufacturing stage would add another $100 to the price of the
radio. And then explained why. So the decision had been made to
retain the current product design, and let users make the mod
themselves.

The hard reality is that if all desigin compromises were
eliminated at the manufacturers' end, that 909 would cost about the
same as an RX 350. As it is, you can do the mods yourself and save
about $900.

Thanks for the response Peter. You would think though (at least I do)
that they're having these radio done overseas where the pay is
miniscule in comparison to the US to begin. I mean, how much money per
radio do these guys have to make for it to be feasible to put out on
the market? You know what I'm saying?


Yeah, I do. But consider that though labor for manufacture may be
lower, the practical issues of manufacturing don't change. Parts
must still be sourced. Designs have to be made
manufacture-compatible. The way things move down the assembly line
do have an impact on how things can be practically built. In the
end, the price of labor can be a smaller issue compared to the cost
of a more advanced design on the assembly line. Using foreign labor
may make a $200 difference in price of a radio. A more advanced
design may make a much greater difference. So, regardless of labor
costs, compromises are made.

During a CES, in the early 90's, I got to meet David Belles, an
audio designer of some repute. He had built an amp that was to be
manufactured by and sold through Magnum Dynalab. He was an
interesting guy, and his amplifier was simply magnificent.

It never made it to production. Why? Because, as designed, it
simply could not be practically manufactured. Even at the price
point, which was quite steep already. So, the engineers at Magnum
Dynalab, no slouches in their own right, looked at the Belles design
and proposed modifications that would be more manufacture-friendly.
Belles insisted that subtleties of performance would be compromised,
and resisted. The project was dropped.

Many things beyond just labor may affect how a product comes to
the assembly line.


I guess if the 909/398 was all
done over here by US workers the price would have been close to a
thousand dollars or a little more, no wonder this country has dipped
like it has. FWIW the dreadful 394 with the mods out performs the
modded 909/398, at least it did at my QTH using the same antenna. That
was just a two to three hour test - might be different on a different
day who knows - but the modified 394 really does perform well or it'd
be in my closet.

I have no doubt.