On Jan 16, 9:56*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 1/16/2011 9:41 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

* ...

Do you have above ground power in your area?

Is it possible you are in an area where a "ground loop" is occurring?
How often are the poles grounded? *I have seen every pole grounded and
some installations where only 1 out of five poles are grounded ... this
can result in noise ... indeed, tremendous currents can circulate though
the ground ...

Regards,
JS

Good question. I would not be a bit surprised. We have 1950's era
aerial power.

On Jan 16, 10:05*pm, wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:41*am, bpnjensen wrote:









On Jan 16, 8:27*pm, wrote:

On Jan 16, 10:13*pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Jan 16, 6:09*pm, John Smith wrote:

On 1/16/2011 5:07 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

...
Short answer - I am getting desperate over the noise level here..
Grasping at straws.

The fellow I spoke to who makes these things said they are best used
as close to the receiver input as possible.

You will certainly need to locate the noise source and place the antenna
as far away as possible and orientate the antenna so the direction
favored by the particular antenna is pointed AWAY form the noise source.
* You will probably want to use a 9:1 balun and use coax for the run
past any noise source and to provide isolation from noise sources in the
home. *A GOOD GROUND on the receiver will serve you well. *If possible,
would also be good to ground the coax braid at the antenna, or run a
wire down to ground as short as possible ...

Regards,
JS

John, thanks - but my whole neighborhood is a noise source. *That's no
joke. *Otherwise, I know all of this already, and have already built
it to the best possible configuration, much as you've described here.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have you attempted to see if it is coming from the ac 120v outlets?
Quite often THAT is one the biggest source of noise . *What
receiver(s) /antenna(s) are you using ?

Actually, I know that my outlets/switch boxes are sources of buzzing
RF *noise. *When *I bring an AM radio, especially one with a tunable
loop on it, toward the switches and outlets, the buzzing becomes more
audible. *I believe that the house is miswired so that ground and one
hot side may be on the same path (this needs to be fixed).

I do have an RF-born noise filter that I run the 115 VAC through. *I
do not get any serious amount of noise from this source (as far as I
can tell) on the radio. *The radio I use primarily is an Icom R75
(also an Allied SX-190 and Realistic DX-160). *Two external antennas -
the random wire with 9:1 match, and a DX-Ultra (essentially an all-
band dipole, but pretty worthyless on the tropical bands). *The worst
noise, by far, is on the lower bands (7 MHz and down). *At 15 MHz and
above, the noise is typically minimal and reception is quite good.
The tropical bands are a mess, with an S-7/S-9 noise level most of the
time. *I can clean up some of it with my MFJ-1026, but not all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have you tried using a 12v battery as a power source ? This may clear
things up.

Not yet, and as RHF also suggested. Maybe worth a try.

On Jan 16, 9:41*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On Jan 16, 8:27*pm, wrote:



On Jan 16, 10:13*pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Jan 16, 6:09*pm, John Smith wrote:

On 1/16/2011 5:07 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

...
Short answer - I am getting desperate over the noise level here.
Grasping at straws.

The fellow I spoke to who makes these things said they are best used
as close to the receiver input as possible.

You will certainly need to locate the noise source and place the antenna
as far away as possible and orientate the antenna so the direction
favored by the particular antenna is pointed AWAY form the noise source.
* You will probably want to use a 9:1 balun and use coax for the run
past any noise source and to provide isolation from noise sources in the
home. *A GOOD GROUND on the receiver will serve you well. *If possible,
would also be good to ground the coax braid at the antenna, or run a
wire down to ground as short as possible ...

Regards,
JS

John, thanks - but my whole neighborhood is a noise source. *That's no
joke. *Otherwise, I know all of this already, and have already built
it to the best possible configuration, much as you've described here.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have you attempted to see if it is coming from the ac 120v outlets?
Quite often THAT is one the biggest source of noise . *What
receiver(s) /antenna(s) are you using ?

- Actually, I know that my outlets/switch boxes are sources of buzzing
- RF *noise. *When *I bring an AM radio, especially one with a tunable
- loop on it, toward the switches and outlets, the buzzing becomes
more
- audible. *I believe that the house is miswired so that ground and
one
- hot side may be on the same path (this needs to be fixed).

BpnJ -First-
Buy a simple to use AC Outlet/Receptacle Tester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester
for 3-Wire Outlets : Has 3-Lights to Show Proper
& Improper Wiring of each and every Outlet that
you Test in the House : Do them One-at-aTime
& One Room at a Time : One Room per Day by
the End of Two Weeks 14-Days you should be
Done.
* AC Outlet/Receptacle Tester
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LZTKIA
* AC Outlet/Receptacle Tester
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products...xtModelID=3941
* AC Outlet/Receptacle Tester
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=3099774

BpnJ -Second-
Next Question : Do You Have 110/120 Volts AC ?
* How to Test for AC Outlet Voltage
http://www.ehow.com/how_2072916_test-ac-voltage.html
* How To Test AC Outlet Voltage
http://www.acmehowto.com/howto/homem...letvoltage.php
* 120 Volts? Usually but not always...
http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/power.htm

-TIP- The Outlet/Receptacle could be Wired
Right -but- You could have Bad Wiring to the
Outlet and a Voltage Drop down to 85~105 Volts
Another way of doing this is with a Power Strip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_strip
* 6-Outlet Power Strip with 4 Foot Cord
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006L4F1
Plug two (2) 100 Watt Incandescent Light Bulbs
in to it using two (2) of these Plug-In Light
Socket Outlet Adapters
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VL4CFC
Now you can Check the Voltage at the Outlet
with a 2 Amp Load on it to see if there are any
High Resistance Connections causing a Voltage
Drop.

BpnJ -Third-
LAST : Once all this is Tested and Fixed : You
only have one thing left : Your Service Entrance
Ground. For this Test and Repair you should
Call a Licensed Electrician to do the Work.
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/publications...gure_cha11.htm
-Safety- If the Electrical Service Entrance Ground
is not *R*I*G*H*T* :Then potentially the whole
Electrical System of the House is Unsafe.

-Conclusion-
Once this is all done : You will have the Knowledge
and the Confidence in Knowing that your House's
Electrical System is Wired Correctly and Properly
Grounded. -in-a-word-'safe'-)-

The First Rule of Shortwave Radio Listeners [SWLs]
using Outside SWL Antennas is "SAFETY" [.]

hope this helps - iane ~ RHF

On 01/17/2011 05:50 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 1/16/11 19:14 , bpnjensen wrote:


Your wire is likely pulling noise out of your house. If you can't move
the wire away from the house, then you do have a bit of a challenge. And
isolator will only produce a cleaner path for the radiated noise picked
up by your antenna to follow to your receiver.

That said, the isolator you're looking at is far more expense than
performance for your application. You can do as much with a 9:1
transformer, either prepackaged from Mini-Circuits, or home made by
winding around an Amidon toroid worked against an earth ground. Or you
could pickup the RF Systems Magnetic Longwire Balun. Also more expense
than you need, but it's a good match for what you're trying to achieve,
and durable in construction if you're not comfortable growing your own.
Anything you want to do, though, will require a good earth ground.

Something like the Wellbrook Loop would also be a good choice. Costly,
of course. Solid performance, though. And unobtrusive. Or, if you can
get away with it, an RF Systems MTA. Now, I have one, and I use it
regularly. In a high noise environment, it's very effective. But, man
made noise, radiated from the electronics and other appliances in the
home...it's not so effective against that. MTA, like the Wellbrook, or
the isolation systems you're considering, will be most effective against
high levels of atmospheric noise. Less so with man made noise radiated
into your antenna space.


Have you tried clamp-on ferrite beads on your AC Mains, right at the
meter? They have to be the right ferrite mix for low HF and you may need
to use more than 1 per leg. That will get all the dimmer buzz and
switchmode whistles from the power lines off your home AC.

I can vouch for these two papers as being very informative without
getting too academic:

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf

On Jan 16, 1:34*pm, RHF wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:24*am, bpnjensen wrote:

Question to those who may have used one - Do inline isolators work
well on RX? *Such as those sold by Radioworks?

Thanks,
Bruce Jensen

BpnJ : Why are you considering an Inline Isolator ?

1st and "Inline Isolator" requires inserting something
'in-the-line' in the Antenna to Radio Feed-in-Line.

2nd the "Inline Isolator" requires two more Connections
{Joints} in the Antenna to Radio Feed-in-Line.

*If* Your Antenna to Radio Feed-in-Line is less that
150 Feet : Then most likely you do not need an
"Inline Isolator".

*If* Your Antenna to Radio Feed-in-Line is on-the-ground
or buried-under-the-ground a few inches : Then most
likely you do not need an "Inline Isolator".

However : If your Antenna to Radio Feed-in-Line is
In-the-Air {Overhead} from Tree to House : Then may
be you could use and *"Inline Isolator" at the House
entry-point with another Grounding Point/Ground Rod.

The "Correct Way" to Install a Longwire Antenna and Balun
by Wellbrook =http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
We have all most likely done it the wrong way more than once . . .http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...5cc467b35a70d5
*.
*.

Here is a 1:1 Line Isolator
52 Ohms : Unbalanced Input -to- Unbalanced Output
SO239 -to- SO239 for 1.5 to 55 MHz
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/i...ucts _id=2234

On 01/17/2011 01:15 PM, RHF wrote:


Here is a 1:1 Line Isolator
52 Ohms : Unbalanced Input -to- Unbalanced Output
SO239 -to- SO239 for 1.5 to 55 MHz
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/i...ucts _id=2234
.
.
hmmmmm

I don't think that your RFI issues are going to be solved by isolators. They
will be solved by getting your local power officials to resolve issues with
the power lines in your area.

bpnjensen wrote:

Question to those who may have used one - Do inline isolators work
well on RX? Such as those sold by Radioworks?

Thanks,
Bruce Jensen

On 1/17/2011 1:27 PM, dave wrote:
On 01/17/2011 01:15 PM, RHF wrote:


Here is a 1:1 Line Isolator
52 Ohms : Unbalanced Input -to- Unbalanced Output
SO239 -to- SO239 for 1.5 to 55 MHz
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/i...ucts _id=2234

.
.
hmmmmm

ROFLOL ...

I thought it was bad when I seen those confused by the difference of rf
transformers to baluns/unun (TLTs) ... now we have a third term thrown
in that must mean "Isolation Transformer."

No wonder there is so much confusion out there ... so now we have rf
transformers, baluns, ununs, isolation transformers, transmission line
transformers and auto-transformers all being covered by the term "line
isolator."

It is going to fun watching two separate people talking about "line
isolators" ... ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

On 1/17/2011 1:31 PM, dxAce wrote:
I don't think that your RFI issues are going to be solved by isolators. They
will be solved by getting your local power officials to resolve issues with
the power lines in your area.

bpnjensen wrote:


I do believe if his antenna is resonate he will increase the signal(s)
which are resonate to the background noise ... you post is very
deceiving ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:

On 1/17/2011 1:31 PM, dxAce wrote:
I don't think that your RFI issues are going to be solved by isolators. They
will be solved by getting your local power officials to resolve issues with
the power lines in your area.

bpnjensen wrote:


I do believe if his antenna is resonate he will increase the signal(s)
which are resonate to the background noise ... you post is very
deceiving ...

k00k