On 04/13/2011 09:22 AM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:31 am, wrote:
On 04/12/2011 09:48 PM, bpnjensen wrote:



The problem Dave relates, that of further meltdown and steam
explosion, is demonstrably more immediate and dangerous locally.
Earthwide, however, not a big deal, for the same reason - dilution.
If it goes on for a LONG time, like years, I suppose it could have
effects on populations of nearby Pacific Islands, assuming favorable
wind patterns...but I'd have to see some better analysis to be
convinced.

That, from a die-hard environmentalist.

Bruce Jensen

You can't dilute radioactive particles and make them less mutagenic; you
are just dispersing them more.

When the secondary containment of F.D. reactor 3 exploded three days
into the incident its spent fuel (waste) pond was pulverized and the
contents were scattered for many kilometers around the plant. At that
point the incident was in Chernobyl category 7 territory, but the
authorities were afraid to panic rescue workers away from the region.

Yes, but higher concentrations are demonstrably more likely to cause
mutagenesis problems. An average increase in rads above background
levels of less than 0.001% in oceanic waters is not going to cause
significant increases in cancer anywhere. I do agree with your last
point.

Plankton-phytoplankton-krill-etc. Each step in the food chain
concentrates the toxic materials. By the time the chain gets to us,
there could be problems. Burning coal has made some wild fish inedible
due to mercury.

Cesium and strontium dumped into a major ocean current is going to
result in an increase in cancer in the North Pacific and most likely a
collapse in the seafood industry.

On Apr 13, 10:08*am, dave wrote:
On 04/13/2011 09:22 AM, bpnjensen wrote:





On Apr 13, 6:31 am, *wrote:
On 04/12/2011 09:48 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

The problem Dave relates, that of further meltdown and steam
explosion, is demonstrably more immediate and dangerous locally.
Earthwide, however, not a big deal, for the same reason - dilution.
If it goes on for a LONG time, like years, I suppose it could have
effects on populations of nearby Pacific Islands, assuming favorable
wind patterns...but I'd have to see some better analysis to be
convinced.

That, from a die-hard environmentalist.

Bruce Jensen

You can't dilute radioactive particles and make them less mutagenic; you
are just dispersing them more.

When the secondary containment of F.D. reactor 3 exploded three days
into the incident its spent fuel (waste) pond was pulverized and the
contents were scattered for many kilometers around the plant. At that
point the incident was in Chernobyl category 7 territory, but the
authorities were afraid to panic rescue workers away from the region.

Yes, but higher concentrations are demonstrably more likely to cause
mutagenesis problems. *An average increase in rads above background
levels of less than 0.001% in oceanic waters is not going to cause
significant increases in cancer anywhere. *I do agree with your last
point.

Plankton-phytoplankton-krill-etc. Each step in the food chain
concentrates the toxic materials. By the time the chain gets to us,
there could be problems. Burning coal has made some wild fish inedible
due to mercury.

Cesium and strontium dumped into a major ocean current is going to
result in an increase in cancer in the North Pacific and most likely a
collapse in the seafood industry.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand the process and the know of the issue; but oceanic mixing
over time is pretty good, and significant dilution occurs even as we
speak. Do you know of any uptake data on Pu and related contaminants
by plankton? I honestly do not know.

And you have to admit - the ubiquity and longevity of coal burning
(kajillions of tons over several centuries) GREATLY exceeds by
multiple orders of magnitude those same factors as applied to nukes in
general or this one in particular. Mercury in the global environment
is common and widespread; same with radon gas. The same will never be
true of Pu or U235, at least from an accident of this type.

We need to keep this in perspective. In terms of global effects, we
currently have problems that really make this one a piker. That is
not say we should be concerned about Japan and vicinity; but compared
to all the other things we are faced with daily in NAm, for example,
this appears to be an insignificant blip.

I live on the West Coast NAm too - and I just don't see any numbers
that create concern in my mind.

Bruce

On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

On 04/13/2011 04:12 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

The criminal act was putting reactors so close together that a
catastrophe in one of them makes the area too hot for workers to prevent
catastrophes in the ones next to it.

On Apr 13, 6:47*am, dave wrote:
On 04/13/2011 04:12 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

The criminal act was putting reactors so close together that a
catastrophe in one of them makes the area too hot for workers to prevent
catastrophes in the ones next to it.

Criminally stupid, at least.

On Apr 13, 4:12*am, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

Dintcha know? They brought the wrath of God upon them for not being
Christians ;-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 11-04-13 12:49 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Apr 13, 4:12 am, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

Dintcha know? They brought the wrath of God upon them for not being
Christians ;-)


Thus sayeth Pat Robertson.

I wonder now if the Devil made California build those reactors right on
the San Andreas fault. I heard they built them there because the land
was cheap.

Then again, it could be just stupidity, as evidenced by this sort of
Homer Simpson/RHF activity:

http://tinyurl.com/6kwbv35


mike








-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNp0g7AAoJEJXfKw5kUPt7LDwH/2tX9644TuRZWQHPkjeuLUfk
Tkk3G0GDWGAyN4hEs8VsnFfYglfu5ZRvjYGF/uuWN0A1g55C89t3MGKzQmgDIjZr
r13hf47jGHkSelG6GwPpGRkmhQQ/MeMgEvPh5sgNxoADep114iukUqI8Fc90C8V1
Fa1YU4oj+bjeothsaxHCnUTip+ce5fKsQ9WagbCQubJOi49jCo xsOE20JeML1Qbi
o2D+ZcS5n3+VP05PiTNxaC+LjExmqoEqyMc+xwDizjKQ7xrkZo hr4mlz77xZtTfR
msaaXfDjInWZgk6rb27wj+vsJvMwiLVLX86zJFnF/+ZiPADO5tOw4XBYemFkau4=
=d5cv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 04/14/2011 12:17 PM, m II wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 11-04-13 12:49 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Apr 13, 4:12 am, Joe from wrote:
On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

Dintcha know? They brought the wrath of God upon them for not being
Christians ;-)


Thus sayeth Pat Robertson.

I wonder now if the Devil made California build those reactors right on
the San Andreas fault. I heard they built them there because the land
was cheap.

No nukes on the San Andreas Fault. We do have several fossil generators
but no nukes on my fault.

On Apr 14, 1:17*pm, dave wrote:
On 04/14/2011 12:17 PM, m II wrote:







-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11-04-13 12:49 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Apr 13, 4:12 am, Joe from *wrote:
On 4/12/2011 7:40 PM, RHF wrote:

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

So tell us, Roy...just exactly how did those evil Japanese cause that
earthquake and tsunami to cause all that "criminal pollution".

Dintcha know? *They brought the wrath of God upon them for not being
Christians ;-)

- - Thus sayeth Pat Robertson.
- - I wonder now if the Devil made California build
- - those reactors right on the San Andreas fault.
- - I heard they built them there because the land
- - was cheap.

There is a Logical Rational* for Building Nuclear
Plants near : -it's-a-devils-deal-
1st : Ocean Shore Lines
2nd : Lakes/Reservoirs
3rd : Rivers/Watersheds
* Safety : Back-Up Last-Ditch Fail-Safe
-and-nuclear-is-dancing-with-the-devil-

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11-04-12 05:40 PM, RHF wrote:

The Japanese will be pumping over a Million Gallons of
Contaminated and Polluted Radioactive Waste Water
into the Worlds Oceans and spreading Radioactive
Toxic Waters all around the World; with the potential
to Toxicify All Sea Food for Years if not Generations.

JAPAN CRIMINAL POLLUTERS ON A GLOBAL SCALE !

and that is how 'i' see it ~ RHF


...and the dumping of 80 thousand barrels of nuclear waste into the ocean
next to California by the US radiation industry is fine, right?

The dumping of nuclear waste into the North Sea by Russia is fine, right?

Japanese are criminals, Americans are just businessmen, right? Funny how
it didn't need a Tsunami and gigantic earthquake to convince the US to
pollute the world's oceans.


mike




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNp0QoAAoJEJXfKw5kUPt7zdgIAIjfvWw6LV zpLxsnHSE2+eeV
b9DtyQMIIeQP9V4+SCxI4sDoGKAyFcGNLD1CozYQsYak5Cb4wa OAiXFT9WxhNhcU
KvPEjAgkWugnd0OM+eIaAWJBWzqOQOKISll0cJoBM4wDgW9Hyz EJ1QNCbsIr1K1Z
ZcDmrRsHeypECVfyUpBGvi7vmXwqTnNYG9JVl5oKHuAPA6z9Ux 1ghZoBzvGTkFsb
1qo3eZAggdnamkeHnKb7con4xPVkgt0s2GSEl3ooiFKuWL3nFY 69nJLdAcaiQ3+i
S9ORrvFtY0hmia4cFoKoXZPrCrER0voy4gFYLIZqBnPrdQxlU+ xHIUJ6qqZGzZE=
=fBzo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----