On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 20:24:57 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

The fact is, there is no example of effect without cause, of "something"
coming from "nothing", of anything "just happening" ...

There's a big difference between the words "cause" and "create".
Nobody says the rain is the creator of a lake.

So, to argue that it might be possible and we haven't just haven't
managed to see it or become aware of it, that possibility must be left
open ...

However, it puts a CAUSE as being the most possible and most acceptable,
whatever that CAUSE is, we can call it the creator, at least until we
know a better term ...

And, again, unless for some preconceived ideas/concepts or beliefs which
force a person to do different. I simply have none ...

But that doesn't add anything to the discussion to hypothesize one
more level of creation. What does that give us? Either there is a
creator which doesn't need to be created - in which case that logic is
invalid, or it's just one more step in an infinity of steps. (The
ocean made the cloud made the rain made the river made the ocean).

It's turtles all the way down.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison