Anything and Everything they can Screw Up, they ARE HELL BOUND TO DO
IT!!!
http://www.rense.com/general94/grid.htm

I have an old needle gauge AC volts meter.I am going to plug it in a
wall outlet and keep an eye on it.
cuhulin

On 7/15/2011 6:20 PM, J R wrote:
Anything and Everything they can Screw Up, they ARE HELL BOUND TO DO
IT!!!
http://www.rense.com/general94/grid.htm

I have an old needle gauge AC volts meter.I am going to plug it in a
wall outlet and keep an eye on it.
cuhulin


J R, you will never notice a bit of difference, even with a freq counter
which is accurate to a gnats arse.

It will still be your normal voltage, it will still be your 60 Hz.

However, it WILL NOT, or MAY NOT be in phase with other power stations
on the grid/systems.

You would need a phase meter and a connection to the other power
station/source you wished to make comparison to ... really not practical
for most ...

Regards,
JS

On Jul 15, 9:20*pm, (J R) wrote:
Anything and Everything they can Screw Up, they ARE HELL BOUND TO DO
IT!!!http://www.rense.com/general94/grid.htm

I have an old needle gauge AC volts meter.I am going to plug it in a
wall outlet and keep an eye on it.
cuhulin

But all it does is give a Voltage . Needs a freq. meter to measure the
AC alternations .

On 7/16/2011 6:56 PM, wrote:
On Jul 15, 9:20 pm, (J R) wrote:
Anything and Everything they can Screw Up, they ARE HELL BOUND TO DO
IT!!!http://www.rense.com/general94/grid.htm

I have an old needle gauge AC volts meter.I am going to plug it in a
wall outlet and keep an eye on it.
cuhulin

But all it does is give a Voltage . Needs a freq. meter to measure the
AC alternations .

Perhaps I am reading what was released incorrectly. I thought that what
"they" are saying is that each power station will be an accurate 60
cycle freq, but that individual plants may vary ... I will keep looking
for data to clarify this.

But, the simple matter of holding one plant at a rock solid 60 Hz looks
simple to me, to the point where it would never be anything but.

Now, the problem of holding the whole grid in sync, quite possibly from
coast to coast, is magnitudes more complex and demanding of equipment
and resources.

But, at this point, I am simply uncertain what is really being done.

Regards,
JS

On Jul 17, 10:08*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/17/2011 6:39 PM, J R wrote:

Power Grid Tampering Will End An Era.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com

I can see how messing with the Power Grid will Screw things up.
cuhulin

Well, it still is kinda confusing, and for the reason(s) that author
points out, the AP document is saying different freq on the say grid,
for example, one might be 59.5 Hz, one 60.0 Hz and one 60.5 Hz, which
would be impossible, as vast amount of power would be shorted at points
on the cycles where the freqs were not in sync, meaning huge heat
developed in various components of the grid and the powerlines
themselves ... and as he states "impossible", at least appears so to me ....

So, to run different freqs you would have to section up the grid so no
two plants/sources could power/sink the other and create these losses
and heat ... which were not in phase with each other.

And, actually, is more complicated than that, but is about the extent of
my knowledge in the grid system, I know they have some tricks and exotic
equipment though ...

I suspect the problem is that the news personnel is not accurately
regurgitating the experts comments correctly ...

Like I say, I strongly think this is another y2k fear spree which will
pass without a whimper.

Regards,
JS

Whatever they do with the 60Hz standard is NOT going to fly
unnoticed . Synchronized power grid has worked for many , many years
and many different machines (besides the alarm clocks) are dependent
upon a stable , reliable frequency source . If something works so well
-- then why would somebody want to mess it up ?

On 7/17/2011 8:23 PM, wrote:

...
Whatever they do with the 60Hz standard is NOT going to fly
unnoticed . Synchronized power grid has worked for many , many years
and many different machines (besides the alarm clocks) are dependent
upon a stable , reliable frequency source . If something works so well
-- then why would somebody want to mess it up ?

Actually, timing clocks by the freq of the nations power source seems
like an idea whose time has come and gone, to me.

You computer could not function if it used the time source from the
powerlines, at least it would produce erroneous results, at best.

Holding all power plants in sync just for the purpose of clocks seems a
no go, especially if you can just adjust the frequency for phasing
plants together on the fly.

There is always wwv, the time component in GPS, phone, web, etc. which
provide better or at least equal accuracy.

But hey, like I say, I am no expert.

Do they even manufacture a clock which is dependent on the syncing
signal from the power line, any more?

The clock in my car has not been adjusted in over a year, it is still
within 1 minute of the clock in my laptop (probably dead on, actually)
.... I suspect it stays in sync by using the GPS time component of the
equipment in the car ...

Regards,
JS

In article ,
wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:08*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/17/2011 6:39 PM, J R wrote:

Power Grid Tampering Will End An Era.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com
....
Whatever they do with the 60Hz standard is NOT going to fly
unnoticed . Synchronized power grid has worked for many , many years
and many different machines (besides the alarm clocks) are dependent
upon a stable , reliable frequency source . If something works so well
-- then why would somebody want to mess it up ?

Because the frequency shift comes from loading down the grid. And to keep
it stable, they fire up the peaking plants. These are gas turbines or
a big coal plant that they keep on standby. Either way, it's expensive.
This way they can skimp a little bit on that.

The World Radio TV Handbook had notes for each country that doesn't
have grid stable enough to run a clock. Welcome to the Third World.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

On 07/18/2011 11:35 AM, Mark Zenier wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:08 pm, John wrote:
On 7/17/2011 6:39 PM, J R wrote:

Power Grid Tampering Will End An Era.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com
...
Whatever they do with the 60Hz standard is NOT going to fly
unnoticed . Synchronized power grid has worked for many , many years
and many different machines (besides the alarm clocks) are dependent
upon a stable , reliable frequency source . If something works so well
-- then why would somebody want to mess it up ?

Because the frequency shift comes from loading down the grid. And to keep
it stable, they fire up the peaking plants. These are gas turbines or
a big coal plant that they keep on standby. Either way, it's expensive.
This way they can skimp a little bit on that.

The World Radio TV Handbook had notes for each country that doesn't
have grid stable enough to run a clock. Welcome to the Third World.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)


Can you point me to a reference? They've only had "peaker" plants since
the War. It seems if the turbines are slowed by a heavy load in the
daytime they could be sped up an equal amount during lower demand,
averaging 60 cycles per second over a period of a day

In article ,
dave wrote:
On 07/18/2011 11:35 AM, Mark Zenier wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:08 pm, John wrote:
On 7/17/2011 6:39 PM, J R wrote:

Power Grid Tampering Will End An Era.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com
...
Whatever they do with the 60Hz standard is NOT going to fly
unnoticed . Synchronized power grid has worked for many , many years
and many different machines (besides the alarm clocks) are dependent
upon a stable , reliable frequency source . If something works so well
-- then why would somebody want to mess it up ?

Because the frequency shift comes from loading down the grid. And to keep
it stable, they fire up the peaking plants. These are gas turbines or
a big coal plant that they keep on standby. Either way, it's expensive.
This way they can skimp a little bit on that.

The World Radio TV Handbook had notes for each country that doesn't
have grid stable enough to run a clock. Welcome to the Third World.
....
Can you point me to a reference? They've only had "peaker" plants since
the War. It seems if the turbines are slowed by a heavy load in the
daytime they could be sped up an equal amount during lower demand,
averaging 60 cycles per second over a period of a day

The keyword is "could". In a fuel based power system, like on the East
Coast, they could also not bother and save some carloads of coal a day.

Since I marinate my brain in four or more radio/podcast science shows
each week, and a half a dozen magazines a month, I'm having some trouble
remembering where I got it. Possibly "Science Friday" on NPR, at they've
had a couple of shows on the grid and renewable power in the past couple
of years. Or something in "New Scientist".

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)