Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the
government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work,
they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.

I acknowledge your desire and attempt to change the subject.

I can only wonder why you don't wish to talk about the 'theory' aspect
of it.

Perhaps because it hits too close to home?


Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

What you call 'conspiracy' is in German 'Verschwörung'.
This term comes from 'Schwur', what is 'oath' in English.

The theory (actually the correct term would be 'hypothesis') is, that
there are groups - connected around the globe - through a system of oath
and hidden connections.

Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden.
Only the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the oath,
while e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would exist
as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove, since
the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.

TH

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

What you call 'conspiracy' is in German 'Verschwörung'.
This term comes from 'Schwur', what is 'oath' in English.

The theory (actually the correct term would be 'hypothesis') is, that
there are groups - connected around the globe - through a system of oath
and hidden connections.

Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden. Only
the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the oath, while
e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would exist
as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove, since
the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.


You forget the Muslims
They too have a precept in the Koran to kill those who would leave the
"faith"

Am 20.10.2011 15:41, schrieb SaPeIsMa:


Actually it is a known fact, that such systems do exist. These are
(predominantly) masons, jesuits and mobsters. Also the SS of the Nazis
used such means. But many other groups have oath, even if not hidden.
Only the SS had the habit to kill those, that would not follow the
oath, while e.g. the boy scouts don't.

Now Kennedy addresses in his speech, that these conspiracies would
exist as wast international system (shortly before he got killed).

So the idea itself has some merits. Only it is very hard to prove,
since the system is hidden and whistle-blowers get killed.

Actually I wouldn't think, that the jesuits would kill somebody, that
wants to leave, what leaves Nazis and mobsters as possible perpetrators.


You forget the Muslims
They too have a precept in the Koran to kill those who would leave the
"faith"

Where have got that from?

Do Muslims have an oath?

I think, 'faith' is something you have, hence could - maybe - give it up
or loose it, but cannot leave.

TH

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 06:56, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 20.10.2011 05:08, schrieb Scout:


"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 18.10.2011 18:27, schrieb RD Sandman:
Thomas wrote in news:9g42k9F672U1
@mid.individual.net:

What if these 'theories' are in fact true.

So far, none of them have proved to be.

Not every one of course, but
one of them. What would it tell you about the people in the
government?
No good things, I guess.

Most folks in government are just like you and me. They go to work,
they
try to do a good job and then come home.



I do not agree. Do you know, why 'conspiracy theories' bear this name?

Because that's all they ever amount to....a theory....lacking any
actual
support or evidence.


I usually do not use the term 'conspiracy'.

I acknowledge your desire and attempt to change the subject.

I can only wonder why you don't wish to talk about the 'theory' aspect
of it.

Perhaps because it hits too close to home?


Conspiracy is a crime in anglo-saxon law, where two or more people
conspire, to harm somebody by illegal means.

I acknowledge your ignorance of the English language as well, since a
conspiracy does NOT have to be a crime.

This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire under
the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

On Oct 20, 10:00*pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law *is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

Gee "TH" in your 40+ Posts to this one thread
you have dispelled my prior high regard for
Germany; and my misconceptions about the German
People being well educated, smart and intelligent.

who'da thunk ~ RHF

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Oct 20, 10:00 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires
more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
(Strafgesetzbuch ~ 'book about law of punishment') has no such rule,
because what is punished is what you do and not intentions.

A promise (much less an oath) given to do something illegal is void and
worthless according to BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch ~ civil law book).

So an oath given to conspirators is worthless, hence cannot be
prosecuted. It is just hearsay or 'thought-crime'. Non of such things
are subject to prosecution in German law.

But this does not mean, that conspiracies are not possible in Germany.
The thing itself is of course a criminal offence. If a group of people
does illegal things, where any part of the doings is not illegal, only
the outcome is harmful, than they commit a collective crime.

These crimes occur and are subject to prosecution, only the terms are
different. We would speak of building (or supporting) of a criminal
group (Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung) or assisting in a crime
(Begünstigung) - or various other paragraphs. Even planning could be a
crime, but that is also an activity.

My impression about 'strange American laws' is, they are useless
leftovers and nobody ever cared to sort them out. Some of these laws are
so extremely strange, that nobody could possibly mean them seriously.
But its bad to keep such things, because the clearness about whats
allowed and what not, gets lost.

Same in civil laws in America. Civil law is the set of regulations,
that formulate the rights of citizens against other citizens (what we
call BGB). That are things like how a contract should look like or what
could be demanded or not. These regulations are very important, but do
not really exist in the US. You have a different (strange) system of
using former decisions of courts as 'quasi-law'. That is a very
impractical form of legislation and produces immense costs and generates
a lot of uncertainty.

An even more severe fault of the American legal system is, in my eyes,
that criminal and civil laws should be the same across the nation, hence
the US federal government should provide usable laws for all of the
country and not every single state.

TH

Gee "TH" in your 40+ Posts to this one thread
you have dispelled my prior high regard for
Germany; and my misconceptions about the German
People being well educated, smart and intelligent.

who'da thunk ~ RHF
.

The term "pompous blowhard" comes to mind, every time I look at one of his
posts.

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law. The German StGB
snip


It's NOT the ONLY meaning of the word

Cherry-picking the meaning to be able to spew more bull**** is just boring
and stupid

GO get yourself a better dictionary and smarten up

"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 21.10.2011 03:08, schrieb Scout:



This does not require 'hidden means' or secrecy. It just requires more
than one person. 'Conspiracy' is among these extremely strange laws,
you have in America.

Then I take it you're not American, and that you think that a
conspiracy
can only occur under American law.

No, I don't say so and I don't mean it.

Apparently you do since you seems to fill that one can only conspire
under the "extremely strange laws" in America.

Again you simply show that you're bat **** crazy.

'Conspiracy' is a legal term in anglo-saxon law.

It also means a lot of other things.