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(OT) Steve Jobs.
An article (MAC OS X LION VS. WINDOWS 7: WHICH OS IS BEST?) in my snail
mail September 2011 Laptop Magazine.The article has a URL/website, so I am typing it now. http://www.laptopmag.com/lion-vs-win7 They both have their places in the computer World.You can have both.Or, WebTV and PC and Apple/Mac. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Oct 11, 1:04*am, John Smith wrote:
On 10/10/2011 7:57 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:07:36 -0700, John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:31 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? It is an example of not owning/having a home ... I don't know that needs any more explaining ... There's a lot you don't know. * *Hardly anybody *owns* a home. * And when the bank owns more than the house is worth, or when a job comes up and they can't sell their home to move, they wish they had rented. I am holding off downsizing until housing values go up. I am also subsidizing other homeowners because they have tax breaks renters don't get. * (and they are subsidizing me for the same thing).. They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? There are owners, and there are those who are slaves and work/pay for their right to squat on land ... I really don't know what you are looking for here ... the obvious differences and benefits are simply that, obvious, to those with the grey matter to know that/those differences ... Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? The indians sold manhattan for some beads and trinkets ... the russians sold alaska for less than one days worth of oil which comes out of there ... Again, those capable already know the importance of these facts ... and conduct their life accordingly ... the implications, importance and consequences surrounding what you ask make me think something is wrong if you must ask the question which you are ... Regards, JS It is always good to examine closely held beliefs. * *You don't seem to be willing to do so. The guy under the bridge, he doesn't own a home ... I know that ... if he wants one, if he thinks he needs one ... I just don't know ... but, I could guess ... The rest of what you had to say, bad decisions, paying too much for a home, etc. ... well ya', that is covered in "Life 101." *If you missed that class, problems will keep arising until you do take that class! ... don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for over valued property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc. Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the house, don't buy it... yet ... If you are having problems, you will have to examine how you have been doing things, and change them -- doing what you have just done, and failing, but expecting a different result THIS TIME is just plain insanity! If in a dead end job, get out of it. *If in a low paying field, leave it. *If you suffer a lack of skills, get them ... the crooks in government can be blamed for a LOT of stuff -- letting valuable jobs go overseas, stealing wealth from citizens, graft, corruption, printing worthless money, etc. *But, you are to blame if you haven't placed yourself in a secure position, not made the right decisions, have over spent your income, didn't secure rock solid income(s), did not have mortgage insurance, didn't have backup plans, etc. I can't believe the number of people who are living from paycheck-to-paycheck, in bliss, in ignorance, not realizing they are a hairs breath from total disaster -- and then cry foul and are surprised when the house-of-cards comes crashing down! *The time to have done something about this is long before it happens to you! I hate to spring the bad news on you, but if you don't have the price of the home you are purchasing in the bank, or in assets you can quickly make liquid, then you probably should not be buying the house. *You are just "ripe for the picking." *And, next time the criminals want to create a "situation" and take their property back, to resell to the next victim -- they will come for you ... and you will get what you are asking for. Good solid citizens just don't start families without first having a home, a good income, stability and resources to support children into the same ... and have them in a state of rock solid stability! If you are talking about a single person ... then maybe a home is not needed ... depends on what they want, and expect, I suppose. Regards, JS- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good comments. TMT |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Oct 11, 6:58*am, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:07:36 -0700, John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:31 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? It is an example of not owning/having a home ... I don't know that needs any more explaining ... There's a lot you don't know. * *Hardly anybody *owns* a home. * And when the bank owns more than the house is worth, or when a job comes up and they can't sell their home to move, they wish they had rented. I am holding off downsizing until housing values go up. Legally I own the home, the mortgage company has a lien on the title. Just like when you buy a car, you own the car but the finance company has a lien on the title. I am also subsidizing other homeowners because they have tax breaks renters don't get. * (and they are subsidizing me for the same thing).. Why is your life on hold waiting for something that may never happen? I have heard that the housing market will not recover until 2020. I will be moving in 3 years, selling my house, and moving to a more tax friendly state. I will not wait for housing values to recover I will sell to whomever comes to me with a pile of money and I will move on with my life. They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? There are owners, and there are those who are slaves and work/pay for their right to squat on land ... I really don't know what you are looking for here ... the obvious differences and benefits are simply that, obvious, to those with the grey matter to know that/those differences ... Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? The indians sold manhattan for some beads and trinkets ... the russians sold alaska for less than one days worth of oil which comes out of there ... Again, those capable already know the importance of these facts ... and conduct their life accordingly ... the implications, importance and consequences surrounding what you ask make me think something is wrong if you must ask the question which you are ... Regards, JS It is always good to examine closely held beliefs. * *You don't seem to be willing to do so.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - In CA, the last big housing hit in the 90's took over 15 years to recover from. Don't expect this one to be any different. TMT |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/11 01:15 , John Smith wrote:
On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! You apparently aren't into reading, either. I said nothing about social standards. I responded to the comment about the arrogance of dismissal of values not one's own. THAT is a cultural standard, today. I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Which exactly explains why there are so many Windows PC's at JPL. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/2011 8:16 AM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/11/11 01:15 , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! You apparently aren't into reading, either. I said nothing about social standards. I responded to the comment about the arrogance of dismissal of values not one's own. THAT is a cultural standard, today. I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Which exactly explains why there are so many Windows PC's at JPL. You may not have said the exact words, but if the point that this/these argument(s)/discussion(s), for many, is centering around computers as status symbols and the ownership being regarded, by some, as some kind of social status standard, then I am at a loss for words ... as it seems quite apparent to me. Indeed, since the argument/statement(s) of MAC supporters has totally ignored the ease of upgrading, the diversity of hardware offered, the abundance of freeware supplied, the ease of codecs to play any possibly imagined media, multiple and numerous apps offered for every possible task/job/use, etc., ON THE PC PLATFORM -- while there is a noticeable lack of these, and only at a notable expense -- obtainable on the apple platform ... all we are left with is the MAC as a status symbol and ego trip ... no one really has to "say anything", one only needs to examine past text in this thread for proof of that statement. Or, simply, anyone can say anything, in the end, you can just look at it and see what it really is ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/2011 6:47 AM, Tankfixer wrote:
In , - D Peter Maus spouted ! On 10/11/11 07:04 , BAR wrote: In , says... In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Keep trying. The world runs on Windows. That was not his point. Consensus is not necessarily truth, nor fact. And popularity is certainly not dispositive proof of quality. If it were, the Model T would have been the highest quality vehicle of all time. The post was about which is the better tool. Not about where the largest sale figures post. Mac's and the Apple operating system were so technologically superior that Apple adopted the i86 processor and borrowed Linux as the core for OS10 Hey, everything was just going great, then you show up with quick wit, logic and fact and shoot everything to hell ... GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM chuckle Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/2011 4:58 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:07:36 -0700, John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:31 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? It is an example of not owning/having a home ... I don't know that needs any more explaining ... There's a lot you don't know. Hardly anybody *owns* a home. And when the bank owns more than the house is worth, or when a job comes up and they can't sell their home to move, they wish they had rented. I am holding off downsizing until housing values go up. Legally I own the home, the mortgage company has a lien on the title. Just like when you buy a car, you own the car but the finance company has a lien on the title. I am also subsidizing other homeowners because they have tax breaks renters don't get. (and they are subsidizing me for the same thing). Why is your life on hold waiting for something that may never happen? I have heard that the housing market will not recover until 2020. I will be moving in 3 years, selling my house, and moving to a more tax friendly state. I will not wait for housing values to recover I will sell to whomever comes to me with a pile of money and I will move on with my life. They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? There are owners, and there are those who are slaves and work/pay for their right to squat on land ... I really don't know what you are looking for here ... the obvious differences and benefits are simply that, obvious, to those with the grey matter to know that/those differences ... Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? The indians sold manhattan for some beads and trinkets ... the russians sold alaska for less than one days worth of oil which comes out of there ... Again, those capable already know the importance of these facts ... and conduct their life accordingly ... the implications, importance and consequences surrounding what you ask make me think something is wrong if you must ask the question which you are ... Regards, JS It is always good to examine closely held beliefs. You don't seem to be willing to do so. I reread my post, while basically saying what I meant to, I did make some "mistakes in the wording." I have made some horrible mistakes in life, and paid dearly for them, I lost my first home, and the money invested in it, and had to begin again ... I am not attempting to "sit a high horse," I had to re-take the class "Life 101" a few times, before getting it close to right ... Basically, you just keep on keeping on ... and, the group of criminals in the public servant offices are a REAL determent to goals of many citizens and families ... this needs worked on, along the way, with the other problems ... I am sure, although I get older by the day, there are still mistakes awaiting me, in my future, short time, here on the planet ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/2011 4:52 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:20 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... I could care less about keeping to "honest Linux" I have applications that a world wide engineering organizations rely upon 24/7/365. I want up time. I used to be a command-line die-hard like you but, I have people who write code and do all of the nitty-gritty technical stuff and I really don't care if you use ed or vi to edit your files. Then, why bother, windows is perfect for you ... You identify the problem and provide the best solution to solve the problem within the constraints you have to solve the problem. Linux is not the solution to all problems and neither is Windows the solution to all problems. A couple of years ago we did deploy a system on Linux because Linux was the best platform to solve the problem. Over the course of past employment, I have developed apps/utilities/drivers/codecs/etc. for most platforms ... I have done most on a PC, regardless of the platform they were intended for ... If the plant had nothing but UNIX machines, I used them -- ... except for my employment in colleges, I have never used a MAC/Apple ... indeed, back in the early 90s I was engaged in a battle to set up a PC lab and allow instructors a choice of Apple or PC in their offices ... at one "Apple biased" college -- thankfully, we "won." Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/11/11 11:52 , John Smith wrote:
On 10/11/2011 8:16 AM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/11/11 01:15 , John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! You apparently aren't into reading, either. I said nothing about social standards. I responded to the comment about the arrogance of dismissal of values not one's own. THAT is a cultural standard, today. I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Which exactly explains why there are so many Windows PC's at JPL. You may not have said the exact words, but if the point that this/these argument(s)/discussion(s), for many, is centering around computers as status symbols and the ownership being regarded, by some, as some kind of social status standard, then I am at a loss for words ... as it seems quite apparent to me. I didn't even address the issue of social status. ReRead carefully. I addressed the issue of the technique of dismissing someone's position as foolish because it doesn't agree with one's own. THAT is a cultural standard, today. Who owns which computer? Who gives a ****. I have computers running Macintosh, Linux and Windows. Status doesn't enter into it. Please be more diligent in discerning what someone is saying before you actually attempt to rebut it. It would be nice to engage in a discussion in which you are actually on the same topic. Indeed, since the argument/statement(s) of MAC supporters has totally ignored the ease of upgrading, the diversity of hardware offered, the abundance of freeware supplied, the ease of codecs to play any possibly imagined media, multiple and numerous apps offered for every possible task/job/use, etc., ON THE PC PLATFORM -- while there is a noticeable lack of these, and only at a notable expense -- obtainable on the apple platform You need to spend some time with the Macintosh platform. I have applications of every size, purpose, and variation on my business machines. Only a handful of these applications did I have to pay retail for. The rest are all open source share- or free-ware. And all of the installed with a simple drag-and-drop. And all work without difficulty. Any software application I require is available in many forms, from multiple developers, on the Macintosh platform. .... all we are left with is the MAC as a status symbol and ego trip ... no one really has to "say anything", one only needs to examine past text in this thread for proof of that statement. Or, simply, anyone can say anything, in the end, you can just look at it and see what it really is ... That's a good point. But you should really, again, investigate before you comment. Your information, is incorrect. |
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