Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On 1/13/2012 7:16 AM, hwh wrote:
On 1/13/12 3:25 PM, SMS wrote:
It's absolutely vital to the future of terrestrial radio to move to
digital broadcasting. It's the only way to remain a relevant choice.
We're not talking about radio enthusiasts, we're talking about the mass
market which matters to broadcasters.

Listeners are perfectly happy with the technical side of things. When FM
radio started, stations knew... it is content that the people are going for.

Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.
It's a mistake to not look at the big picture though. Audio quality
matters, and _every_ study has shown that digital radio's audio quality
is perceived as much higher than analog radio. Cost matters too.

If content were all that mattered then everyone would be on satellite
radio, which has relatively poor audio quality but an enormous selection
of content at a relatively high price. Yet satellite radio can barely
add enough new subscribers to make up for churn.

If cost didn't matter then everyone would have an unlimited data plan on
a smart phone and would buy all all the music they wanted.

Coverage also matters. Streaming is fine if you have an unlimited data
plan, but not on long trips outside wireless coverage areas.

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:47:24 -0800, SMS
wrote:

Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.
It's a mistake to not look at the big picture though. Audio quality
matters, and _every_ study has shown that digital radio's audio quality
is perceived as much higher than analog radio. Cost matters too.

If content were all that mattered then everyone would be on satellite
radio, which has relatively poor audio quality but an enormous selection
of content at a relatively high price. Yet satellite radio can barely
add enough new subscribers to make up for churn.

If cost didn't matter then everyone would have an unlimited data plan on
a smart phone and would buy all all the music they wanted.

Coverage also matters. Streaming is fine if you have an unlimited data
plan, but not on long trips outside wireless coverage areas.

Methinks content is everything with one big catch. Polluted content
is a big problem. Having the correct content will attract listeners.
Interleaving the content with advertising, irritating announcers, and
worthless PSA's, will drive them away. I've noticed that I tend to
always change stations in the middle of commercials and announcements
and rarely in the middle of a song or tune. I'm sure there's a study
somewhere on WHEN listeners change stations, but I can't find it.

Another problem is convenience. I've only played with HD Radio in the
stores and in a friends vehicle. I forgot the exact ordeal process
required but one thing stood out. It was not possible to tune or scan
across the band, catching all the regular FM and HD stations in
sequence. You had to tune to the regular FM channel, and then switch
to HD1 or HD2. As long as HD1 and HD2 are the poor step child of the
regular FM station on the dial, people are not going to listen.

Incidentally, it was really irritating to listen to HD1 while moving.
Every time the error rate climbed to an unacceptable level, it would
switch to the regular FM audio. No provisions for locking it on HD1
or switching to dead air. I forgot the maker and model, but I can ask
the owner if necessary. I will admit that when the signal was strong
enough, HD1 sounded quite good.

Convenience is also a problem with the lack of genre selection. On
many computerized (PC based) radios, you don't just have a few
presets. You have the stations programmed into memory by the type of
music or talk they offer. I vaguely recall it can be rather fine
grain to include genre changes by the hour. For example, I've been
listening to KUFX lately. Repetitive "Classic rock" during the day,
with sports in the evenings. Ideally, you should be able to punch a
"60's rock" button and limit the selections to only those stations
doing classical. The radio and the station support RBDS, the PTY
(program type) data that allegedly accompanies the music or talk
should contain the necessary genre info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

As for streaming, that's what I'm doing after my Subaru stock CD
player died (low output in the laser head) and my favorite classical
FM station changed format. I preload about 8 hours of music, audio
books, and TED talks onto a cheap MP3 player, which is hot-wired into
the car radio. The only reason I bother to listen to FM is when I
forget to preload the MP3 player or charge the player battery. I
could also rip streaming content from the internet, but haven't
bothered as it ties up my computers for too long a time.

HD Radio has been around long enough to make a determination if it's
going to live or die. I suspect it will die because there's no
compelling reason for Joe Sixpack to buy or install one. That's
because the content of HD1 and HD2 often is quite similar to the
regular FM channel. To the buyer, it's more of the same thing. Were
HD1 and HD2 to offer commercial free or subscription based commercial
free service, there might be an incentive, but those have been
proscribed by economic necessity and FCC rules.

Installing an HD Radio is also not a trivial exercise. There are few
plug in converters and those tend to be tied to specific high end
radios. At this time, installing and HD Radio consists of ripping out
the existing radio, and installing an upgraded radio. That's neither
cheap nor easy. Lacking a compelling reason to do this, Joe Sixpack
will probably install whatever the dealer has in stock. I checked
Best Buy in Capitola. One radio on the shelf has HD and nobody in the
store seemed to know anything about it. I asked a few questions and
got some bad guesses. As long as that situation persists, the
retrofit market is a lost cause.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On 1/13/12 4:47 PM, SMS wrote:
Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.

Most markets are already fully loaded with stations. It's not more
content, it is content people want that matters.

Non-stop music in any flavor might as well be played from a personal
audio system, so I'm not surprised people won't pay a substantial
monthly fee to get them.

gr, hwh

HD Radio one of ways to get more content/choice
 

"hwh" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/12 4:47 PM, SMS wrote:
Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.

Most markets are already fully loaded with stations.

The dial is fully loaded. That's doesn't mean the "menu" of choices is
fully loaded.

HD Radio one of ways to get more content/choice
 

On 1/13/12 7:50 PM, FarsWatch4 wrote:
"hwh" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/12 4:47 PM, SMS wrote:
Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.

Most markets are already fully loaded with stations.

The dial is fully loaded. That's doesn't mean the "menu" of choices is
fully loaded.

How about the economic viability to get more stations in? Or does more
stations mean less money per station and therefore less interesting content?

gr, hwh

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On 1/13/12 09:47 , SMS wrote:
On 1/13/2012 7:16 AM, hwh wrote:
On 1/13/12 3:25 PM, SMS wrote:
It's absolutely vital to the future of terrestrial radio to move to
digital broadcasting. It's the only way to remain a relevant choice.
We're not talking about radio enthusiasts, we're talking about the mass
market which matters to broadcasters.

Listeners are perfectly happy with the technical side of things. When FM
radio started, stations knew... it is content that the people are
going for.

Content is one component. With HD Radio you can deliver more content.
It's a mistake to not look at the big picture though. Audio quality
matters, and _every_ study has shown that digital radio's audio quality
is perceived as much higher than analog radio. Cost matters too.

If content were all that mattered then everyone would be on satellite
radio, which has relatively poor audio quality but an enormous selection
of content at a relatively high price. Yet satellite radio can barely
add enough new subscribers to make up for churn.

If cost didn't matter then everyone would have an unlimited data plan on
a smart phone and would buy all all the music they wanted.

Coverage also matters. Streaming is fine if you have an unlimited data
plan, but not on long trips outside wireless coverage areas.

If what you say were true, HD radios would be flying off the shelves.

They're not.

If what you say were true, HD stations would not be turning off the
digital transmitters.

They are.

Technology does NOT drive listening. Content and convenience of
availability do.

IBOC is a technological travesty. It does not live up to its claims.

HD radio programming suffers from the same ills as the baseband.
Because it's being developed by the same people through the same
research. Look at Chicago. The so called alternative offerings in HD are
in fact, repackaged playlists of what's elsewhere on the dial. Check the
actual songs. Same songs, different order.

HD radio programming has not lived up to its claims either.

If HD radio is to gain the traction it needs to drive listening, it
has to 1) Be vastly better in audio quality. Perceptuals show marginal
perceived improvements. And the numbers are not dramatic.

2) offer content that excites the listeners. So far, it doesn't.

3) offer that content in quickly, easily and reliably accessible
form. It's not doing that, either.

HD radio is not living up to its hype. The claims made for it are not
true.

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

IBOC is a technological travesty. It does not live up to its claims.

IBOC, HD...it will eventually end up with some form of digital broadcasting.

Analog is not long for this world.

HD radio is not living up to its hype. The claims made for it are not
true.

I don't know what "hype" you are referring to.

It's just some extra functionality added to the radio.

It's there....want to use it...go ahead.

No...just ignore it.

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On 1/13/12 13:48 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
IBOC is a technological travesty. It does not live up to its claims.

IBOC, HD...it will eventually end up with some form of digital broadcasting.

Analog is not long for this world.


That may be true. But what we have, today, isn't the working
solution. It's the equivalent of hanging chrome on an AVEO and
calling it a Cadillac.

Conditional access, which is currently under test, won't be an
improvement, either. And when pay radio hits the marketplace, the
value of Sirius/XM will skyrocket with the public.


If you're going to have to pay for radio, why pay for just one
market contour? For similar money, you can have radio in the whole
country.

But this whole matter of broadcasting OTA may becoming moot,
anyway. Digital alternatives, condition access or not, are becoming
commonplace. More and more people are no longer using radios to
access the content of their choice. iPods are becoming as
upbiquitous in cars as vanity mirrors. PC listening is has replaced
OTA radio in many of the homes in my neighborhood, and I've met a
great number of teenagers (church group) who've never owned a radio.
Most of them have never used one.

In my brother-in-law's household, there are no radios. None. They
get they're music from Pandora, they listen to XM, or the iPod in
the car, and couldn't tell you the last time they've listened to
terrestrial radio.

One of my side businesses is building sound systems. Theatre
systems. Public address. And lots of variations on music
distribution in businesses and homes. In the last 5 years, I've not
installed one broadcast tuner. Satellite radio receivers, yes.
AM/FM, no. And when I ask my customers about HD, most have no idea
what it is, the rest have no interest. Why? Because they get all the
content they want off the net, off Satellite, or off...yes, it's
true...they're cell phones. A number of years ago, I built a sound
system for an airport. Distributed over a campus of a half dozen
buildings at the ramp, and though all the hangars. I installed AM,
FM and XM, with an airband radio in the administration building, and
two of the FBO's. Unicom for ordering fuel, and the like. One one of
my semi-annual routine maintenance calls, I noticed the AM/FM tuner
was not only turned off, but disconnected, and sitting off in a
corner. The administrator told me I could take it with me. They've
never used it. All content piped throughout the campus was either
XM, or it was a PC, plugged into the ports previously occupied by
the tuner.

Of the home systems I've installed over the years, only 5 still
use an FM Tuner. A fanfare, to be precise. The rest...entirely
internet connected. They listen to their favorite stations over the
internet. No radio reception involved. Or they listen to XM. Or
Pandora. Only 5 still listen OTA. And they're beginning to complain
about the increased noise floors and interferences from the
sidebands of "IBOC" digital transmissions.

HD radio, may be a technological solution in search of a problem.
It doesn't offer the improvement in audio promised. And programming
alternatives are merely repackages of the same content on other
stations. WLS-FM, for instance, broadcast it's baseband on HD-1, and
its AM on HD-2. With wildly apathetic results.

In the meantime, HD radio, IBOC is not the solution.

And the public has shown its disinterest in creating a market for
a product that does not live up to the claims made for it.















HD radio is not living up to its hype. The claims made for it are not
true.

I don't know what "hype" you are referring to.

I explained that in the previous post. It's a shame you ignored it.



It's just some extra functionality added to the radio.

Which, again, hasn't lived up to the claims made for it.

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/12 13:48 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
IBOC is a technological travesty. It does not live up to its claims.

IBOC, HD...it will eventually end up with some form of digital
broadcasting.

Analog is not long for this world.


That may be true. But what we have, today, isn't the working solution.
It's the equivalent of hanging chrome on an AVEO and calling it a
Cadillac.

If you are saying we need more development and improvment for digital radio
to be a primary platform...I would agree. Let's hope it only gets better.

Right now...this is what we got.


HD radio, may be a technological solution in search of a problem.

Gee, was this is a "sound bite" that is oft repeated from HD WHiners.

The problem is...not enough choices on the (free) broadcast band to keep up
with what the populace is expecting these days.

HD IBOC is one solution.

It doesn't offer the improvement in audio promised.

It does. However, people are not buying it for "audio improvment".

And programming alternatives are merely repackages of the same content on
other stations.

This is not true. There has been great efforts not to simply duplicate
programming available on analog.

In the meantime, HD radio, IBOC is not the solution.

Ity's not THE solution...it's A solution.

Don't like it...don't use it.

Want to take advantage of it? Go ahead.

Just another choice.

And the public has shown its disinterest in creating a market for a
product that does not live up to the claims made for it.

The public has shown disinterest in ALL radio.....hard to get anyone
interested in antyhing to do with radio these days.

It's just some extra functionality added to the radio.

Which, again, hasn't lived up to the claims made for it.

Works fine for me. I have it on all day in my office.

Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
 

On 1/13/12 14:52 , FarsWatch4 wrote:

It doesn't offer the improvement in audio promised.

It does.


Actually, it doesn't. Perceptuals are not reality. A number of
studies which have been conducted have specifically excluded trained
ears, musicians, and audiophiles, in favor of largely uninvolved,
uninterested, and unhearing individuals, who detect a contrast
between two sources and declare improvement, by the way the question
is worded. Easy to do with passersby who have no interest in the
product, or who have neither experience nor expectation.


9 out of 10 doctors also recommended cigarette smoking to aid and
improve digestion.

The only meaningful studies that will determine HD Radio's
technological solutions to improving audio quality will be studies
that measure noise, distortion, and precision of reproduction,
comparing one technology to another, against a control--source
material.

Here, HD falls quite flat.




However, people are not buying it for "audio improvment".

"People" aren't buy it at all. Comparatively speaking. If HD
Radio offered the vastly sought after programming you claim, and the
audio quality is so superior, radios would be flying off the
shelves. They're not.

Hard reality. Sales tells the story that marketing wants not to
have told. And sales demonstrate that the pubic isn't buying what
iBiquity is selling.




The public has shown disinterest in ALL radio.....hard to get anyone
interested in antyhing to do with radio these days.

Hence my comment: HD is a technological solution in search of a
problem. The public has shown little interest in the solutions IBOC
presents, just as they're showing little interest in broadcasting as
a whole. As I explained in the previous post.

It's just some extra functionality added to the radio.

Which, again, hasn't lived up to the claims made for it.

Works fine for me. I have it on all day in my office.


As I have FM on in my office, all day. My objection is that IBOC
not only doesn't produce the audio quality I'm getting now, but it's
also responsible for increased noise and distortion on my FM's,
reducing my available audio quality as a whole.

All based on the perceptuals of those who could care less about
audio quality.

Thanks, for nothing.