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Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"The Biggest CES Flops of All Time"
"2003 -- HD Radio: Dubbed the "next great thing" in free broadcast radio, HD radio offered digital CD-quality sound but poor marketing and manufacturing costs meant this would always remain a pipe dream for the masses." http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/sci...=faces#slide=8 Hey, Struble - ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 6, 4:12*pm, HDRadioFarce wrote:
"The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" "2003 -- HD Radio: Dubbed the "next great thing" in free broadcast radio, HD radio offered digital CD-quality sound but poor marketing and manufacturing costs meant this would always remain a pipe dream for the masses." http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/sci...gest-ces-flops... Hey, Struble - ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a 'HD-Radio" New Year 'HDRadioFarce' ;;-}} may the 'farce' be with you throughout the year ~ RHF -may-you-lyfao-all-year-long- -lyfao- -lyfao- -lyfao- |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 6, 6:12*pm, HDRadioFarce wrote:
"The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" So when is the experiment finally going to OFFICIALLY be declared a failure and cease to exist? When are ALL station managers throughout the nation going to stop broadcasting in HD? We've been reading what a disaster it is for years but it still hasn't gone away. Why? I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the HASH is so intrusive. Even to the point of interfering with adjacent stations on the dial. Don't the decision makers realize they are driving away listeners in droves? As if the internet hasn't depleted their audiences enough they have to throw gas on the fire to hasten their demise. It appears to be a terminal case of falling in love with your toys coupled with an inability to acknowledge one's mistake. "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18 |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 07/01/2012 00:12, HDRadioFarce wrote:
"The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" "2003 -- HD Radio: Dubbed the "next great thing" in free broadcast radio, HD radio offered digital CD-quality sound but poor marketing and manufacturing costs meant this would always remain a pipe dream for the masses." CD-Quality sound. That sounds like the same nonsense we had with DAB advertising. Surely it is technically impossible for HD radio to provide CD quality sound. (DAB could technically provide near CD quality sound, but here in the UK, no DAB transmissions actually provide it, and most are way way below CD quality). Richard E. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
Loser technology for losers
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Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 07/01/2012 19:01, Scott wrote:
A new setup station round these parts is using 64 K mono and claims its digital quality .. so thats all right then;!... Indeed. My cordless phone is digital quality. And so was an old fashioned telegraph ;-) |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
HDRadioFarce (for it is he) wrote:
Hey, Struble - ROTFLMFAO! I wonder if having to cite Faux News actually helps you with your seemingly terminal obsession? -- http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) ) 19:49:17 up 7 days, 6:31, 3 users, load average: 0.05, 0.08, 0.08 "People believe any quote they read on the internet if it fits their preconceived notions." - Martin Luther King |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
HD (aka IBOC) radio in the USA:
For the general public has to compete along with traditional analog radio against satellite radio, portable mp3 players, and Internet radio. Automobile drivers have decided satellite wins hands down IF the subscription price is not an issue for the listener. MP3 players win for the rest. IBOC in New York City Metro survives on a handful of AM stations, many more on FM with multiple sub channels, the FM sub channels being used to simulcast their AM sister stations, ethnic or alternate programming. Bottom line IMHO, its the programming content, not the technology that is killing free radio. It they had something on free radio that people wanted to listen to then the technology would be embraced. Crap is crap no matter what you wrap it in. The rare BCB DXer or tech-know-geek is not in this horse race. Hardware price is no longer an issue with so many fire sales on IBOC enabled radios. Steve N2UBP |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/7/2012 1:00 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
Bottom line IMHO, its the programming content, not the technology that is killing free radio. I can't speak for NYC, but in the San Francisco Bay Area it's the digital technology that's making terrestrial radio palatable at all. There are several HD2 stations, including the only decent jazz station on HD2. Cost of the receivers is not an issue, there are so many different models available now and the cost adder is only around $10. A bigger issues is that on newer vehicles you can't easily replace the stock head unit. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 07/01/2012 21:00, Steve Stone wrote:
Bottom line IMHO, its the programming content, not the technology that is killing free radio. It they had something on free radio that people wanted to listen to then the technology would be embraced. Crap is crap no matter what you wrap it in. I agree to some extent. If the content is cr*p, then not many people will want to listen to it. However I don't agree that this is the only factor. In fact I think the most important factor is that people are content with what they can already get on FM, and although FM is not perfect, it does at least work well enough the vast majority of the time. Also, with digital radio, I do think that technical factors could affect whether people listen. If the audio keeps cutting out, then that will put a lot of people off. Also if the sound quality is very poor, then I do believe that will put a fair number of people off. The rare BCB DXer or tech-know-geek is not in this horse race. Hardware price is no longer an issue with so many fire sales on IBOC enabled radios. Except that vehicle manufacturers tend to want to fit the cheapest car stereo they can get away with, and an ordinary AM/FM receiver, is still cheaper than a digital radio. Richard E. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/8/2012 2:04 AM, Richard Evans wrote:
Except that vehicle manufacturers tend to want to fit the cheapest car stereo they can get away with, and an ordinary AM/FM receiver, is still cheaper than a digital radio. That may be the case in the UK, and for very low end vehicles in the U.S., but at least in the U.S., one way manufacturers distinguish similar vehicles is with components like the sound system. The price adder for the manufacturer for adding digital radio is very low, $5-10. Higher end manufacturers simply add it, BMW is not going to lose sales to Volvo, Cadillac is not going to lose sales to Lincoln, etc., over a feature that costs very little to include. It's like leaving out cup-holders. My 70 year old next door neighbor just got a new Ford Taurus and yesterday she spent an hour in the car while her daughter taught her how to use the optional navigation system and the optional Ford Sync system with HD Radio. I told her that now she needs a smart phone to link to Sync system. I was rather surprised that she got those options since she only drives about 8000 miles per year and doesn't drive on long trips. One thing that's changed is that people are keeping their vehicles longer and are willing to spend a little extra up front for something they are going to live with for ten years, and those with older vehicles that still have a DIN or double DIN opening for a head unit are willing to replace it with something with more capability, not just digital radio, but Bluetooth, iPod control, AUX-In, etc.. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
One thing that's changed is that people are keeping their vehicles
longer and are willing to spend a little extra up front for something they are going to live with for ten years, and those with older vehicles that still have a DIN or double DIN opening for a head unit are willing to replace it with something with more capability, not just digital radio, but Bluetooth, iPod control, AUX-In, etc.. A fairly recent issue I stumbled across on aftermarket upgrading auto radios is the CAN_BUS linkage of just about anything, including the radio, to the rest of the the electronics in the car. It creates a whole new headache above and beyond getting the replacement radio to fit in the opening and matching the wiring harness. Steve N2uBP |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/8/2012 7:20 AM, Steve Stone wrote: One thing that's changed is that people are keeping their vehicles longer and are willing to spend a little extra up front for something they are going to live with for ten years, and those with older vehicles that still have a DIN or double DIN opening for a head unit are willing to replace it with something with more capability, not just digital radio, but Bluetooth, iPod control, AUX-In, etc.. A fairly recent issue I stumbled across on aftermarket upgrading auto radios is the CAN_BUS linkage of just about anything, including the radio, to the rest of the the electronics in the car. It creates a whole new headache above and beyond getting the replacement radio to fit in the opening and matching the wiring harness. That's right, and the few high-end replacement units that have CAN capability are not cheap. When you buy a new car these days you'd better get the features you want at the time of purchase since you're not going to be able to add them on later. Manufacturers need to be careful to not lose sales to a competitor that includes capabilities that they try to charge extra for. It's sometimes amazing what consumers will focus on when choosing one vehicle over another. From the design of cup holders, to the audio system, when you're deciding between very similar vehicles at similar cost, these things make a difference. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 8, 5:04*am, Richard Evans
wrote: On 07/01/2012 21:00, Steve Stone wrote: Bottom line IMHO, its the programming content, not the technology that is killing free radio. It they had something on free radio that people wanted to listen to then the technology would be embraced. Crap is crap no matter what you wrap it in. I agree to some extent. If the content is cr*p, then not many people will want to listen to it. However I don't agree that this is the only factor. In fact I think the most important factor is that people are content with what they can already get on FM, and although FM is not perfect, it does at least work well enough the vast majority of the time. Also, with digital radio, I do think that technical factors could affect whether people listen. If the audio keeps cutting out, then that will put a lot of people off. Also if the sound quality is very poor, then I do believe that will put a fair number of people off. The rare BCB DXer or tech-know-geek is not in this horse race. Hardware price is no longer an issue with so many fire sales on IBOC enabled radios. Except that vehicle manufacturers tend to want to fit the cheapest car stereo they can get away with, and an ordinary AM/FM receiver, is still cheaper than a digital radio. Richard E. Fox News Follow the HD Radio dead thread on Broadcast Archives: http://lists.radiolists.net/pipermai...ry/127213.html LOL! |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
What and miss The Biggest Flops of All Time
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Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 8, 9:23*pm, MotoFox confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!
for!bangpath!follow!man!wise.UUCP wrote: And it came to pass that HDRadioFarce delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" I'm going to tell you this again and I expect you to remember it: QUIT CROSSPOSTING TO THE REC.RADIO.SHORTWAVE BOARD. The Ibiquity system has no presence on shortwave (and in all likelihood, never will.) DRM and Ibiquity are two entirely different, incompatible systems, both technically and politically, so your pointless bloviating is completely irrelevant on there. Think you can remember that? -- * *_ *_ *______________ *___________ *__ * / \/ \/ __ *_ *_ *__ \/ *__ *__ * \/ / * * * * *Originator of the word */ /\/\ */_/ // // /_/ / __// /_/ /\ *\ * * * * * * * * * * *"enubulous" /_/ * *\____//_/ \______/ * \____//_/\_\ *!i84w!exit210!304senye!motofox **** off! LMFAO!!!! |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 6, 7:51*pm, Truth Teller wrote:
On Jan 6, 6:12*pm, HDRadioFarce wrote: "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" * So when is the experiment finally going to OFFICIALLY be declared a failure and cease to exist? When are ALL station managers throughout the nation going to stop broadcasting in HD? We've been reading what a disaster it is for years but it still hasn't gone away. Why? * I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the HASH is so intrusive. Even to the point of interfering with adjacent stations on the dial. Don't the decision makers realize they are driving away listeners in droves? As if the internet hasn't depleted their audiences enough they have to throw gas on the fire to hasten their demise. It appears to be a terminal case of falling in love with your toys coupled with an inability to acknowledge one's mistake. "Pride goeth before destruction, *and a haughty spirit before a fall." * * * * * * * * * * * * * Proverbs 16:18 They really do need to kill AM IBOC. I could handle waiting a few years for FM IBOC to die, but AM IBOC is a crime against nature. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
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Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"Truth Teller" wrote in message ... On Jan 6, 6:12 pm, HDRadioFarce wrote: "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" So when is the experiment finally going to OFFICIALLY be declared a failure and cease to exist? When are ALL station managers throughout the nation going to stop broadcasting in HD? We've been reading what a disaster it is for years but it still hasn't gone away. Why? Because it's NOT going away. HD radio is here to stay on FM. AM is a different story...but AM is dying a slow death anyway. I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the HASH is so intrusive. Even to the point of interfering with adjacent stations on the dial. Don't the decision makers realize they are driving away listeners in droves? As if the internet hasn't depleted their audiences enough they have to throw gas on the fire to hasten their demise. It appears to be a terminal case of falling in love with your toys coupled with an inability to acknowledge one's mistake. "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18 |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"MotoFox" confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.UUCP wrote in message ... And it came to pass that HDRadioFarce delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ I'm going to tell you this again and I expect you to remember it: QUIT CROSSPOSTING TO THE REC.RADIO.SHORTWAVE BOARD. The Ibiquity system has no presence on shortwave (and in all likelihood, never will.) DRM and Ibiquity are two entirely different, incompatible systems, both technically and politically, so your pointless bloviating is completely irrelevant on there. Think you can remember that? I doubt it. He's Farce....he can't stop thinking about anything besides HD Radio! |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
HBGary Federal was contracted by the U.S. war loving government to develop
astroturfing software to manipulate and sway public opinion |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the
HASH is so intrusive. Where are you trying to listen to them? Someone living in Australia can't hear them either. Don't the decision makers realize they are driving away listeners in droves? There is no evidence to suggest that they are "drivi9ng listeners away in droves". Most (if not all) listeners do not notice any difference. |
It's 2012 -so- Let the HD-Radio 'Farce' Wars Begin !
On Jan 9, 11:23*am, "FarceWatch3" wrote:
"Truth Teller" wrote in message ... On Jan 6, 6:12 pm, HDRadioFarce wrote: "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" * *So when is the experiment finally going to OFFICIALLY be declared a failure and cease to exist? When are ALL station managers throughout the nation going to stop broadcasting in HD? We've been reading what a disaster it is for years but it still hasn't gone away. Why? Because it's NOT going away. *HD radio is here to stay on FM. AM is a different story...but AM is dying a slow death anyway. * I still can't listen to 1120 (KMOX), 840 (WHAS), et.al. because the HASH is so intrusive. Even to the point of interfering with adjacent stations on the dial. Don't the decision makers realize they are driving away listeners in droves? As if the internet hasn't depleted their audiences enough they have to throw gas on the fire to hasten their demise. It appears to be a terminal case of falling in love with your toys coupled with an inability to acknowledge one's mistake. "Pride goeth before destruction, *and a haughty spirit before a fall." * * * * * * * * * * * * * Proverbs 16:18 OMG - Let the HD-Radio 'Farce' Wars Begin ! As always this is RHF and... I'll leave the Radio 'On' ~ RHF www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jpxlEPHX8 -ps-:-turn-your-radio-'on'-and-just-listen-:o)- |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 9, 11:26*am, "FarceWatch3" wrote:
"MotoFox" confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.UUCP wrote in ... And it came to pass that HDRadioFarce delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ I'm going to tell you this again and I expect you to remember it: QUIT CROSSPOSTING TO THE REC.RADIO.SHORTWAVE BOARD. The Ibiquity system has no presence on shortwave (and in all likelihood, never will.) DRM and Ibiquity are two entirely different, incompatible systems, both technically and politically, so your pointless bloviating is completely irrelevant on there. Think you can remember that? - I doubt it. - *He's Farce....he can't stop thinking - about anything besides HD Radio! Hey -omg- ? Did they 'Farce' It [HD-Radio] Up His [HDRadioFarce] Ass ! -and-now-hd-radio-farce-has-hd-radio-on-his-mind- |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 09/01/2012 02:26, MotoFox wrote:
And it came to pass that Richard Evans delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ Pretty twisted in some ways, bearing in mind, that DAB can support bit rates of up to 320k, and so can provide near CD quality. I thought it was 384k, which is the upper standard limit of MPEG 1 layer 2 encoding. Does the EU147 spec limit it to 320k for some reason? Actually I'm not sure, but in the past there have been broadcasts in foreign countries, at up to 320k, and never at any bit rate higher than that. Also I thought the limit for mp2 was 320k, but I might be wrong about that. Richard E. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/10/2012 9:29 PM, MotoFox wrote:
And it came to pass that Richard Evans delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ Actually I'm not sure, but in the past there have been broadcasts in foreign countries, at up to 320k, and never at any bit rate higher than that. Also I thought the limit for mp2 was 320k, but I might be wrong about that. MP3 tops out at 320k. MP2 tops out at 384; sample rates, 32000-48000 Hz. I don't believe MP3 is used over the air, but it is widely used for Internet audio streams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_...specifications (Oh yeah, and MP3 can't claim to have won an Emmy....) LOL. In the real world of radio what matters in terms of audio quality is what radio listeners perceive. There have been extensive tests comparing perceived audio quality of the different digital sources. The iBiquity codec is based upon the AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec. "Scientific testing by the European Broadcasting Union has indicated that HE-AAC at 48 kbit/s was ranked as "Excellent" quality using the MUSHRA scale.[8] MP3 in the same testing received a score less than half that of HE-AAC and was ranked "Poor" using the MUSHRA scale. Data from this testing also indicated that some individuals confused 48 kbit/s encoded material with an uncompressed original." Look at figure 9 at http://www.ebu.ch/fr/technical/trev/trev_305-moser.pdf. Also read http://www.nrscstandards.org/Reports%20ref%20docs/iBiquity%20Gen%203%20report/FM%20IBOC%20subj%20eval.pdf. You can see where "near CD quality" came from in figure 3.2. As that report shows, the big problem with analog radio, is in impaired conditions. Unimpaired, some analog radio was only a bit below the quality of digital. Impaired, digital fared far better than analog because of the multipath on FM analog. Of course the big problem is that in impaired conditions, at 10% power, it would be difficult to even receive the HD signal. That's why it's so important for radio stations to increase their digital power. Where we need to move to is FM HD Radio in pure digital at higher power. It's the best transition to digital (at least the best one that anyone has come up with), that preserves the present FM band during the transition. It's time for the FCC to set some dates. The consumer electronics industry has made a huge commitment to digital radio, as evidenced by this years CES. Now it's the broadcasters turn to take advantage of the increased penetration of digital receivers, and increase power levels. The stations that have not yet added digital service need to get with the program as well. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, at 07:09:26h -0800, SmS 88 declared:
The iBiquity codec is based upon the AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec. "Scientific testing by the European Broadcasting Union has indicated that HE-AAC at 48 kbit/s was ranked as "Excellent" quality using the MUSHRA scale.[8] Since the iBiquity codec is *based upon* but not *is* the AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec, it is not valid to use tests on the original AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec as evidence that the iBiquity codec its-self delivers quality. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 8:03 AM, J G Miller wrote:
Since the iBiquity codec is *based upon* but not *is* the AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec, it is not valid to use tests on the original AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec as evidence that the iBiquity codec its-self delivers quality. iBiquity tweaked the AAC+ Codec to improve it for radio. So while the iBiquity Codec is going to sound better than the generic AAC+ Codec, it's not going to be orders of magnitude better. Hence the tests of AAC+ do apply to the iBiquity Codec, just realize that the iBquity Codec is a bit better. In any case, other tests, of the iBquity Codec confirm the results in terms of sound quality. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, at 08:28:21h -0800, SMS wrote:
In any case, other tests, of the iBquity Codec confirm the results in terms of sound quality. And who conducted these other tests? |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 8:36 AM, J G Miller wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, at 08:28:21h -0800, SMS wrote: In any case, other tests, of the iBquity Codec confirm the results in terms of sound quality. And who conducted these other tests? The most detailed test that compared a CD source versus digital radio at various bit rates was conducted by Sheffield Audio Consulting and prepared for NPR. http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/Non-NRSC%20reports/NPRmultiple_bit_rate_report.pdf. See Table 5.2.1 on page 11. The test methodology is in the appendix. There are valid reasons to be opposed to digital radio, and I have posted those in the past. Audio quality is not one of the reasons. Every test by every testing entity, whether a double-blind test or just the opinion of the reviewer, has shown that the "near CD quality" is not just marketing hype, but is actually true. I would caution you against falling in with the likes of Mr. Farce who has demonstrated his lack of knowledge about broadcasting in general and digital radio in particular. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:00:45 -0800, SMS
wrote: I would caution you against falling in with the likes of Mr. Farce who has demonstrated his lack of knowledge about broadcasting in general and digital radio in particular. Disclosu I'll classify myself along with Mr Farce, as my knowledge of broadcasting ended in about 1972. I know just enough to be dangerous. I was doing some Googling the codec and found this item for 2003. "Last-minute change casts doubt on U.S. digital radio spec" http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4045254/Last-minute-change-casts-doubt-on-U-S-digital-radio-spec The National Radio Standard Committee (NRSC) questioned the audio quality of iBiquity's original low-bit-rate PAC codec in May and then suspended its standards-setting process, with committee members bluntly saying they did not consider the audio quality of the proprietary 36-kbit/second codec fit for prime time. Oops. Well, that's been fixed, but the early history of the codec selection is rather interesting. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 9:26 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Oops. Well, that's been fixed, but the early history of the codec selection is rather interesting. You need to read a bit further in the article you quoted: "Their concerns center mainly on digital AM broadcasts, where critics point to questionable audio performance, sparse coverage and interference with adjacent analog channels." I don't think anyone here would argue that digital AM is a waste of time and that there are valid concerns about it. Interference is a real possibility on AM, though as we've seen even in ba.broadcast there's a tendency for some people that are philosophically opposed to digital radio to attribute _any_ AM interference to AM HD, even when the accused AM station isn't even broadcasting in HD! As I stated, there are valid reasons to be opposed to digital radio but the quality of the audio on FM digital radio is not one of those reasons. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:35:18 -0800, sms88
wrote: On 1/11/2012 9:26 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Oops. Well, that's been fixed, but the early history of the codec selection is rather interesting. You need to read a bit further in the article you quoted: "Their concerns center mainly on digital AM broadcasts, where critics point to questionable audio performance, sparse coverage and interference with adjacent analog channels." Note the word "mainly". There apparently were also concerns over FM quality. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"Their concerns center mainly on digital AM broadcasts, where critics
point to questionable audio performance, sparse coverage and interference with adjacent analog channels." Note the word "mainly". There apparently were also concerns over FM quality. Only by the diehard HD Haterz. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 10:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:35:18 -0800, wrote: On 1/11/2012 9:26 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Oops. Well, that's been fixed, but the early history of the codec selection is rather interesting. You need to read a bit further in the article you quoted: "Their concerns center mainly on digital AM broadcasts, where critics point to questionable audio performance, sparse coverage and interference with adjacent analog channels." Note the word "mainly". There apparently were also concerns over FM quality. Unlikely. It's just a weasel word inserted by the author. If there were concerns about FM quality then they would have raised them. You can see by the independent tests of audio quality that FM digital consistently ranks much higher in quality than FM analog. Perhaps the concern on FM was that they thought "near CD quality" wasn't enough and they wanted better than CD quality. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On Jan 11, 7:09*am, sms88 wrote:
On 1/10/2012 9:29 PM, MotoFox wrote: And it came to pass that Richard Evans delivered the following message unto the people, saying~ Actually I'm not sure, but in the past there have been broadcasts in foreign countries, at up to 320k, and never at any bit rate higher than that. Also I thought the limit for mp2 was 320k, but I might be wrong about that. MP3 tops out at 320k. MP2 tops out at 384; sample rates, 32000-48000 Hz.. I don't believe MP3 is used over the air, but it is widely used for Internet audio streams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_...nical_specific... (Oh yeah, and MP3 can't claim to have won an Emmy....) LOL. In the real world of radio what matters in terms of audio quality is what radio listeners perceive. There have been extensive tests comparing perceived audio quality of the different digital sources. The iBiquity codec is based upon the AAC+ (HE-AAC) codec. "Scientific testing by the European Broadcasting Union has indicated that HE-AAC at 48 kbit/s was ranked as "Excellent" quality using the *MUSHRA scale.[8] MP3 in the same testing received a score less than half that of HE-AAC and was ranked "Poor" using the MUSHRA scale. Data from this testing also indicated that some individuals confused 48 kbit/s encoded material with an uncompressed original." Look at figure 9 at http://www.ebu.ch/fr/technical/trev/trev_305-moser.pdf. Also read http://www.nrscstandards.org/Reports%20ref%20docs/iBiquity%20Gen%203%.... You can see where "near CD quality" came from in figure 3.2. As that report shows, the big problem with analog radio, is in impaired conditions. Unimpaired, some analog radio was only a bit below the quality of digital. Impaired, digital fared far better than analog because of the multipath on FM analog. Of course the big problem is that in impaired conditions, at 10% power, it would be difficult to even receive the HD signal. That's why it's so important for radio stations to increase their digital power. Where we need to move to is FM HD Radio in pure digital at higher power. It's the best transition to digital (at least the best one that anyone has come up with), that preserves the present FM band during the transition. It's time for the FCC to set some dates. The consumer electronics industry has made a huge commitment to digital radio, as evidenced by this years CES. Now it's the broadcasters turn to take advantage of the increased penetration of digital receivers, and increase power levels. The stations that have not yet added digital service need to get with the program as well. A Noisy Car/Trunk driving on a Road is not exactly the best environment to judge Audio 'quality' in. IBOC will become accepted {Standard} when the FCC Mandates that all new AM/FM Radios built for the US Market are IBOC Compliant and have Plug-N-Pay SAT Radio built-in. ~ RHF |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"sms88" wrote in message ... AM interference to AM HD, even when the accused AM station isn't even broadcasting in HD! How many times are you going to spew that crap? It was the OTHER adjacent channel polluting my A's game. Mark |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 12:35 PM, sms88 wrote:
[...] As I stated, there are valid reasons to be opposed to digital radio but the quality of the audio on FM digital radio is not one of those reasons. You write in an Orwellian Newspeak in which IBOC becomes "digital radio." The truth is that IBOC is a pathetically poor excuse for digital radio in the same sense that a plastic ring from a Crackerjack box is a poor excuse for a precious gem. And that is the real issue here. If we had real digital radio, and we don't, there would be no such thing as "AM digital" or "FM digital." There would only be digital radio -- in a dedicated band with all licensees having full-quieting, and full-time, and full-fidelity signals with bandwidth to spare. That, of course, is exactly what the money men did _not_ want. So they did everything in their power to prevent it. They were selfish and criminal, to be sure. But worse, they were stupid. Their IBOC system, designed to preserve the "superiority" of the big stations owned by the money men by continuing and accentuating the inferiority of the small stations' signals, is pretty much a retarded turkey that few have heard of and that no one wants. It rings a pathetic and hokey death knell for radio broadcasting. With every good wish, Kevin Alfred Strom. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of AllTime" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
On 1/11/2012 6:12 PM, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote:
The truth is that IBOC is a pathetically poor excuse for digital radio in the same sense that a plastic ring from a Crackerjack box is a poor excuse for a precious gem. And that is the real issue here. IBOC is a temporary compromise. Eventually analog will be turned off and HD Radio will be all digital. You have to look at the big picture and recognize the practical considerations in moving from analog to digital, including the business considerations. We've seen how well creating a new digital band worked--it didn't. We'll have to live with analog and digital co-existing, and the problems that causes, for at least another decade. |
Fox News 2012: HD Radio one of "The Biggest CES Flops of All Time" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
"SMS" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2012 6:12 PM, Kevin Alfred Strom wrote: The truth is that IBOC is a pathetically poor excuse for digital radio in the same sense that a plastic ring from a Crackerjack box is a poor excuse for a precious gem. And that is the real issue here. IBOC is a temporary compromise. Eventually analog will be turned off and HD Radio will be all digital. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, yes... yet another denial of service to rural users of the media, just like HD(?*)TV has been. I guess if you don't live in a core city area, you just don't count (sort of like if you're over 50). * Quite a bit of supposed HDTV, isn't. Stations that have multiple channels cannot use full bandwidth for their main channel. Most don't use 1080p, opting for 720p with an additional channel or two. The ones with 5 side channels can't even use 720p, and run mostly 480p, which is only marginally "better" than good old NTSC analog (and you could still receive the analog signal at a distance, which you cannot do with ATSC.) |
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