On Friday, June 13, 2014 11:09:09 AM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
http://www.federalistblog.us/2008/11...tizen_defined/
Thanks, but I was expecting someone to cite chapter an verse from the original Federalist Papers circulated by the Founding Fathers before the adoption of the US Constitution (at least, that was the way I intertpreted Rock Rat's claimn about the Federalist Papers). Your link appears to be for a site espousing a particular current political agenda, even if it does have "Federalist" in its name.

On 6/13/2014 1:47 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 13, 2014 11:09:09 AM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
http://www.federalistblog.us/2008/11...tizen_defined/
Thanks, but I was expecting someone to cite chapter an verse from the original Federalist Papers circulated by the Founding Fathers before the adoption of the US Constitution (at least, that was the way I intertpreted Rock Rat's claimn about the Federalist Papers). Your link appears to be for a site espousing a particular current political agenda, even if it does have "Federalist" in its name.


It cites the Federalist papers.

Also:

http://www.redstate.com/diary/ironch...ynch-v-clarke/

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/the-constitution

On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:30:20 PM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
It cites the Federalist papers.
I must have skiimed over it too quickly, but I did not see any citation from the Fedeeralist Papers in any of your three links. The only one I spotted that might have been before 1789 was "Alexander Hamilton's draft of the Constitution", and it was not claimed to be part of the Federalist Papers. How about providing a direct citation like "Federalist Paper No. xx", page NN, chapter yy, paragraph qq, etc.?

On 6/13/2014 3:02 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:30:20 PM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
It cites the Federalist papers.
I must have skiimed over it too quickly, but I did not see any citation from the Fedeeralist Papers in any of your three links. The only one I spotted that might have been before 1789 was "Alexander Hamilton's draft of the Constitution", and it was not claimed to be part of the Federalist Papers. How about providing a direct citation like "Federalist Paper No. xx", page NN, chapter yy, paragraph qq, etc.?

Not a problem:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause

Alexander Hamilton, a Convention delegate from New York, wrote in
Federalist No. 68 about the care that must be taken in selecting the
president: "Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable
obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These
most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have
been expected to make their approaches from more than one quarter, but
chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant
in our councils."[5

http://www.redstate.com/diary/ironch...ynch-v-clarke/

A quote from James Madison, popularly acknowledged as the “author” of
the Constitution, provides a clue as to what our Founders meant. In one
of his papers, dated the 22 May, 1789, he wrote the following (emphasis
mine):

It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance.
Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from
parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is
what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to
investigate any other.

On Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:59:39 AM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause



Alexander Hamilton, a Convention delegate from New York, wrote in
Federalist No. 68 about the care that must be taken in selecting
the president: "Nothing was more to be desired than that every
practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and
corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government
might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from
more than one quarter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers
to gain an improper ascendant in our councils."[5

http://www.redstate.com/diary/ironch...ynch-v-clarke/

A quote from James Madison, popularly acknowledged as the
ï¿ 1/2 authorï¿ 1/2 of the Constitution, provides a clue as to what our
Founders meant. In one of his papers, dated the 22 May, 1789, he
wrote the following (emphasis mine):

It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance.
Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes
from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion;
it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be
unnecessary to investigate any other.

Maybe it is the 18th century Colonial English, but the quote from the Federalist Papers that you attribute to Alexander Hamilton seems like a justification for requiring natural-born citizenship. I do not see a definition of being a "natura- born citizen" in this quote.

The quote from James Madison is interesting, but he seems to be presenting it as his opinion, it covers some simple and uncontroversial situations, and he does not seem to be claiming the same authority to interpret the constitutions as John Marshall did in Marbury versus Madison. It does not appear to be a formal and legal definition that gives both the necessary requirements and describes any and all disqualifying conditions.

I still think the Rock Rat was wrong when he asserted that the definition could be found in the Constitution, and he was just bloviating when he claimed that it was in the Federalist Papers.

Google,,, batr.org TISA

On 6/26/2014 9:45 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:59:39 AM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause



Alexander Hamilton, a Convention delegate from New York, wrote in
Federalist No. 68 about the care that must be taken in selecting
the president: "Nothing was more to be desired than that every
practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and
corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government
might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from
more than one quarter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers
to gain an improper ascendant in our councils."[5

http://www.redstate.com/diary/ironch...ynch-v-clarke/

A quote from James Madison, popularly acknowledged as the
ï¿ 1/2 authorï¿ 1/2 of the Constitution, provides a clue as to what our
Founders meant. In one of his papers, dated the 22 May, 1789, he
wrote the following (emphasis mine):

It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance.
Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes
from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion;
it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be
unnecessary to investigate any other.

Maybe it is the 18th century Colonial English, but the quote from the Federalist Papers that you attribute to Alexander Hamilton seems like a justification for requiring natural-born citizenship. I do not see a definition of being a "natura- born citizen" in this quote.

The quote from James Madison is interesting, but he seems to be presenting it as his opinion, it covers some simple and uncontroversial situations, and he does not seem to be claiming the same authority to interpret the constitutions as John Marshall did in Marbury versus Madison. It does not appear to be a formal and legal definition that gives both the necessary requirements and describes any and all disqualifying conditions.

I still think the Rock Rat was wrong when he asserted that the definition could be found in the Constitution, and he was just bloviating when he claimed that it was in the Federalist Papers.


You find bits and pieces in the Federalist Papers, not a pure definition.

BREAKING! There may be enough...... www.libertypost.org

On 06/26/2014 02:49 PM, Bill Davis wrote:
On 6/26/2014 9:45 AM, wrote:


I still think the Rock Rat was wrong when he asserted that the
definition could be found in the Constitution, and he was just
bloviating when he claimed that it was in the Federalist Papers.


You find bits and pieces in the Federalist Papers, not a pure definition.

The Constitution is intentionally vague. This forces people to use their
own brains rather than pretending to know what words meant 220 years ago.

On Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:49:33 PM UTC-7, Bill Davis wrote:
You find bits and pieces in the Federalist Papers, not a pure
definition.
Show me. I did not see it at all in the quote you provided.