Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

I totally agree with the comment below.

I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had terrible
grief as a result.
I never flamed anyone and was as diplomatic as possible if I had a different
view or disagreed with a poster.

95% of my posts were to help people. I answered several hundred over a 5
year period.
Being a ham for over 20 years and retired, it gave me a sense of
satisfaction as an Elmer.

Then came the spam, false signups, hate mail, false posts in my name, and
phone calls.
An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.

Another person here who is female was getting several obscene phone calls a
week when someone used QRZ to find her address, then the phone book for the
number. She had to bring in the authorities to get it stopped.

So that is why so many regular NG posters are anon.

Giving your callsign and true e-mail address DOES NOTHING TO ENHANCE
CREDIBILITY

BEWARE -- Caveat Poster

--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you
would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you
trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my
house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but
anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real
email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why
not read the
rest and learn....

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:07:03 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote
(in message Wihgb.54977$Ms2.1056@fed1read03):

An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.


During the late 80's and until I retired from the Army in '95, I ran a BBS in
the metro are of DC.

The only reason I ever checked passwords was that, invaribly, when the new
member was a "ham", she or he would use their callsign as the password.

So I would send them a polite message asking that the person change the
password to something not everyone in the world would know.

The general response I got was: "Thanks, I never thought of that".


Were you using your callsign as your password?



Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take
command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk

Gray Shockley asked "Were you using your callsign as your password?"

No but I used my old expired (for 20 years) callsign, dumb I know as some
sources have your old callsign.
Guess that is how they cracked the password.

But you made a very good point and to add to it -- a regular change of
passwords is a good idea also - which I now do.

My e-mail address is an alias from my provider and I change the alias every
2 months or so depending on spamming. I get very little spam these days. My
friends and relatives are very tolerant of frequent address changes.

Also I ask friends never to send me an e-mail with several others in it --
(i.e., mass sending of jokes as everyone seems to like to do), rather I tell
them to send by using blind copy ONLY --- Bcc. This hides the recipient
list.

Sad commentary on today's society -- BUT one must take steps to prevent
spam, etc.

Also if you put your e-mail address on a web page -- DO NOT PUT IT IN TEXT
FORM -- use a jpeg or gif.
Apparently the spiders can not read the @ sign when it is in picture form.

--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'
-------------------------------------------------
"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
.com...
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:07:03 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote
(in message Wihgb.54977$Ms2.1056@fed1read03):

An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.


During the late 80's and until I retired from the Army in '95, I ran a BBS
in
the metro are of DC.

The only reason I ever checked passwords was that, invaribly, when the new
member was a "ham", she or he would use their callsign as the password.

So I would send them a polite message asking that the person change the
password to something not everyone in the world would know.

The general response I got was: "Thanks, I never thought of that".


Were you using your callsign as your password?



Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take
command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:42:01 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote:

But you made a very good point and to add to it -- a regular change of
passwords is a good idea also - which I now do.


Even safer is to just use one password once (keep a text file on your desktop
or hot-keyed).


My e-mail address is an alias from my provider and I change the alias every
2 months or so depending on spamming. I get very little spam these days. My
friends and relatives are very tolerant of frequent address changes.

One of my current web site providers allows two hundred e-mail addresses so
I'm thinking about setting up so I know which passwords (if not all sigh)
have been compromised. (however, that's really just curiosity).

I'm pretty crippled up most of the time so I can sit here a lot and it's
sorta fun to watch my spam program do its thing ("Spamfire" for the Macintosh
is a *great* program).


Also I ask friends never to send me an e-mail with several others in it --
(i.e., mass sending of jokes as everyone seems to like to do), rather I tell
them to send by using blind copy ONLY --- Bcc. This hides the recipient
list.

Sad commentary on today's society -- BUT one must take steps to prevent
spam, etc.

Oh, I hack some pretty weird people off (like "nazi's - not under Godwin) but
wacko's quoting their mental dwarf him/itself).

And then they help beta test my despammer grin.


Also if you put your e-mail address on a web page -- DO NOT PUT IT IN TEXT
FORM -- use a jpeg or gif.
Apparently the spiders can not read the @ sign when it is in picture form.


The spiders can't "read" an image - not any of it.

Think of an optical character reader (ocr) and you'll get the "image" dux.
It can read the pages but a "straight" ocr can't do a thing with graphics.


Anyway, I have been on line since 1985 and have always used my name and
city/state.


--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'
-------------------------------------------------



Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Entropy Maintenance Technician
Tao Chemical Company
--------------------------

http://www.cybercoffee.org/
Vicksburg, Mississippi US

I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had terrible
grief as a result.
I never flamed anyone and was as diplomatic as possible if I had a different
view or disagreed with a poster.

95% of my posts were to help people. I answered several hundred over a 5
year period.
Being a ham for over 20 years and retired, it gave me a sense of
satisfaction as an Elmer.

Then came the spam, false signups, hate mail, false posts in my name, and
phone calls.
An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.

And then the bozos here expect us to give them our callsigns after they have
been trolling and arguing with us first.

Another person here who is female was getting several obscene phone calls a
week when someone used QRZ to find her address, then the phone book for the
number. She had to bring in the authorities to get it stopped.

So that is why so many regular NG posters are anon.

Giving your callsign and true e-mail address DOES NOTHING TO ENHANCE
CREDIBILITY

Besides, there is no way to know that those that are giving call signs are not
just assuming that identity and it is really someone else's call sign or name.

There is no way to verify that ANYONE here is using their real name or call, nor
does it matter. No one should be concerned with anything other than the
statements being made.

"Jeff Renkin" wrote in message
...
I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had
terrible
grief as a result.
snipped

I would NEVER give my call sign out over here. It proves nothing. Some could
hack it to make it look as their own, which adds no credibility to it - as
was already stated. OR, as I've seen - some see a call sign and assume
you're being a smart ass trying to prove a point. Nah, that is ok. I can
chat or give advice or viewpoints without divulging my personal info. IF
anyone wanted to find it bad enough I'm sure they could, so let them work
for it if it means that much.
Lou

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

Hey, Butthead, I looked you up because you claimed to be either a General or an Extra...
you are neither. So why don't you grow up? As someone else said, if you'd put *half* the
effort into learning the code that you do into whining about it you might actually get
somewhere.

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!



We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.