I can see why you may have a problem with CW, I too would abhor another
language that required me to spell...

"CW" wrote in message
news:Tjijb.777617$YN5.761156@sccrnsc01...
Code will be eeiminated. Garanteed. Deal with it.

We had to learn morse code to advance in Boy Scouts. I remember thinking we
were all pretty sharp signalling each other with flashlights at campouts.
Then, our scoutmaster (who was a HAM) let us hear some of the code on his
rig. Those guys were FAST.

-- Stinger

"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
Jeff Renkin wrote in message
...
Actually the lowering of the speed has NOTHING to do with it. If
you ARE going to
learn the code, it makes more sense to learn it at the fastest speed
right away. If
you learn it at 5 wpm, it makes it much harder later to go faster
with it.

Nope, it doesn't.

Do a search on Farnsworth Method.

Why would I need to do that. A friend of mine actually knew and talked
to the guy when he was alive. I don't need to search anything. What
makes you think that your comments about learning CW hold any weight
with me, if you can barely make out an SOS? Get a grip...I'm probably
in the upper 90-95% bracket as far as CW users. I think I have a
fairly good grip on the best methods of learning and using code. The
farnsworth method is bad news to anyone that plans to actually use the
code on the air. It promotes poor timing. MK

Code will be eliminated. All the arguments in the world will not change
that. Get over it.

"

Stinger wrote:

Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the requirement.

Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a de facto
"intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required some
committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium).

What I think worries everyone is that without this requirement, the bar will
be lowered to the extent of becoming glorified Citizens Band radio.

And that would be a shame.

-- Stinger

You're repeating the well worn 'badge of honor' justification for
requiring morse code, otherwise known as 'I had to do it, so everyone
should.' Contrary to what many pro-coders want to believe, the ability
to learn morse code has very little to do with higher intelligence. In
fact it can be argued that there may be a reverse relationship. It's not
unusual for very intelligent people to find it harder to learn certain
skills, which are easier for those of average intelligence. Learning
morse code may be an example of this. I've known people who were very
good at code but were lost when it came to understanding complex
subjects requiring a higher level of reasoning. IOW- the ability to
learn morse code is not a valid IQ test.


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Code will be eliminated. All the arguments in the world will not change
that. Get over it.


Morse code is a fact of life. There are THOUSANDS that LOVE it and many are
learning it right now.

Deal with it.

jw
wb9uai

Said another way, hams that are willing to learn how to send and
receive morse code should be recognized for their newly attained
skill. It is equally important to recognize that those skills can
only be put to use with a gradually shrinking group of other amateur
radio operators. Morse code is no longer used in any meaningful way
by the military, in commerce or in emergency operations. It is a
skill with only limited useful application, sort of like knowing how
to use a buggywhip.

If the gatekeepers are going to reverse the declining trends in the
amateur radio hobby they are going to have to find new ways to attract
younger members. One way would be to craft an entrance test that
corresponds to the way the world is now. To provide some level of
assurance for safety and courteous operations it is necessary to have
some sort of test to become a licensed radio operator. The applicant
should be able to demonstrate a good working knowlege of radio and
electronic principles. The applicant should also be able to
demonstrate the ability to set up and operate radio equipment and show
that they have the skills to communicate effectively using voice and
digital modes on several bands from HF on up. The semi-digital very
slow morse code should not be a part of that test.

I've heard the argument that knowlege of code is needed to support
domestic emergency operations. Well, I have yet to see a recent
example of hams providing a meaningful contribution to some emergency
project. I do remember a severe carribean hurricane that resulted in
much damage. Numerous hams were trying to contribute to an H&W net,
but the babble of simultaneous voice and morse code made it all but
impossible to understand anything. Emergency operations should be
left to the professionals with the requisite communications tools and
skills needed to communicate effectively in an emergency situation.

HFguy wrote in message ...
Stinger wrote:

Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the requirement.

Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a de facto
"intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required some
committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium).

What I think worries everyone is that without this requirement, the bar will
be lowered to the extent of becoming glorified Citizens Band radio.

And that would be a shame.

-- Stinger

You're repeating the well worn 'badge of honor' justification for
requiring morse code, otherwise known as 'I had to do it, so everyone
should.' Contrary to what many pro-coders want to believe, the ability
to learn morse code has very little to do with higher intelligence. In
fact it can be argued that there may be a reverse relationship. It's not
unusual for very intelligent people to find it harder to learn certain
skills, which are easier for those of average intelligence. Learning
morse code may be an example of this. I've known people who were very
good at code but were lost when it came to understanding complex
subjects requiring a higher level of reasoning. IOW- the ability to
learn morse code is not a valid IQ test.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Actually, John, I agree with what you're saying as far as some sort of
"entrance test" idea goes. Code has served in large part in the past, but
if it were replaced with something that required the same committment and
education, it could be a good thing.

HF mentioned that I was repeating the "badge of honor" argument in my
earlier post. Perhaps I did paraphrase it. But that's not a refutation of
my point -- it's what I believe. We just disagree. Let's try a test.....

I urge anyone leaning toward supporting a policy of "If you can afford it,
you can operate it" to listen to CB radio in any major US city. If you
haven't done this, you cannot imagine what those frequencies are like now.

Now, ask yourself which is better for amateur radio -- a smaller population
of dedicated hobbyists on the air, ready to assist in emergencies, or a much
larger population of vandalistic undisciplined, disrespectful radio
operators that could **** off ham operators around the world, frustrating
anyone that would want to take ham up as a hobby?

-- Stinger


"John S." wrote in message
om...
Said another way, hams that are willing to learn how to send and
receive morse code should be recognized for their newly attained
skill. It is equally important to recognize that those skills can
only be put to use with a gradually shrinking group of other amateur
radio operators. Morse code is no longer used in any meaningful way
by the military, in commerce or in emergency operations. It is a
skill with only limited useful application, sort of like knowing how
to use a buggywhip.

If the gatekeepers are going to reverse the declining trends in the
amateur radio hobby they are going to have to find new ways to attract
younger members. One way would be to craft an entrance test that
corresponds to the way the world is now. To provide some level of
assurance for safety and courteous operations it is necessary to have
some sort of test to become a licensed radio operator. The applicant
should be able to demonstrate a good working knowlege of radio and
electronic principles. The applicant should also be able to
demonstrate the ability to set up and operate radio equipment and show
that they have the skills to communicate effectively using voice and
digital modes on several bands from HF on up. The semi-digital very
slow morse code should not be a part of that test.

I've heard the argument that knowlege of code is needed to support
domestic emergency operations. Well, I have yet to see a recent
example of hams providing a meaningful contribution to some emergency
project. I do remember a severe carribean hurricane that resulted in
much damage. Numerous hams were trying to contribute to an H&W net,
but the babble of simultaneous voice and morse code made it all but
impossible to understand anything. Emergency operations should be
left to the professionals with the requisite communications tools and
skills needed to communicate effectively in an emergency situation.

HFguy wrote in message ...
Stinger wrote:

Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the
requirement.

Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a de
facto
"intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required some
committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium).

What I think worries everyone is that without this requirement, the
bar will
be lowered to the extent of becoming glorified Citizens Band radio.

And that would be a shame.

-- Stinger

You're repeating the well worn 'badge of honor' justification for
requiring morse code, otherwise known as 'I had to do it, so everyone
should.' Contrary to what many pro-coders want to believe, the ability
to learn morse code has very little to do with higher intelligence. In
fact it can be argued that there may be a reverse relationship. It's not
unusual for very intelligent people to find it harder to learn certain
skills, which are easier for those of average intelligence. Learning
morse code may be an example of this. I've known people who were very
good at code but were lost when it came to understanding complex
subjects requiring a higher level of reasoning. IOW- the ability to
learn morse code is not a valid IQ test.


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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

That's fine with me. I'll just continue to ignore them. Beginning here
shortly, everyone will have the same option as testing for code will no
longer happen. ****es you off, doesn't it?


"J999w" wrote in message
...
Code will be eliminated. All the arguments in the world will not change
that. Get over it.


Morse code is a fact of life. There are THOUSANDS that LOVE it and many
are
learning it right now.

Deal with it.

jw
wb9uai

Why waste your time trying to rationalize one side or the other. The morse
requirement will be dropped. Just the way it is.


"Stinger" wrote in message
...
Actually, John, I agree with what you're saying as far as some sort of
"entrance test" idea goes. Code has served in large part in the past, but
if it were replaced with something that required the same committment and
education, it could be a good thing.

HF mentioned that I was repeating the "badge of honor" argument in my
earlier post. Perhaps I did paraphrase it. But that's not a refutation
of
my point -- it's what I believe. We just disagree. Let's try a test.....

I urge anyone leaning toward supporting a policy of "If you can afford
it,
you can operate it" to listen to CB radio in any major US city. If you
haven't done this, you cannot imagine what those frequencies are like now.

Now, ask yourself which is better for amateur radio -- a smaller
population
of dedicated hobbyists on the air, ready to assist in emergencies, or a
much
larger population of vandalistic undisciplined, disrespectful radio
operators that could **** off ham operators around the world, frustrating
anyone that would want to take ham up as a hobby?

-- Stinger


"John S." wrote in message
om...
Said another way, hams that are willing to learn how to send and
receive morse code should be recognized for their newly attained
skill. It is equally important to recognize that those skills can
only be put to use with a gradually shrinking group of other amateur
radio operators. Morse code is no longer used in any meaningful way
by the military, in commerce or in emergency operations. It is a
skill with only limited useful application, sort of like knowing how
to use a buggywhip.

If the gatekeepers are going to reverse the declining trends in the
amateur radio hobby they are going to have to find new ways to attract
younger members. One way would be to craft an entrance test that
corresponds to the way the world is now. To provide some level of
assurance for safety and courteous operations it is necessary to have
some sort of test to become a licensed radio operator. The applicant
should be able to demonstrate a good working knowlege of radio and
electronic principles. The applicant should also be able to
demonstrate the ability to set up and operate radio equipment and show
that they have the skills to communicate effectively using voice and
digital modes on several bands from HF on up. The semi-digital very
slow morse code should not be a part of that test.

I've heard the argument that knowlege of code is needed to support
domestic emergency operations. Well, I have yet to see a recent
example of hams providing a meaningful contribution to some emergency
project. I do remember a severe carribean hurricane that resulted in
much damage. Numerous hams were trying to contribute to an H&W net,
but the babble of simultaneous voice and morse code made it all but
impossible to understand anything. Emergency operations should be
left to the professionals with the requisite communications tools and
skills needed to communicate effectively in an emergency situation.

HFguy wrote in message
...
Stinger wrote:

Bottom line, it's too bad the trend is toward dropping the
requirement.

Until now, the morse code requirement served the dual purpose as a
de
facto
"intelligence test" to get in to ham radio, and it also required
some
committment (which in turn gets hams to respect the medium).

What I think worries everyone is that without this requirement, the
bar will
be lowered to the extent of becoming glorified Citizens Band radio.

And that would be a shame.

-- Stinger

You're repeating the well worn 'badge of honor' justification for
requiring morse code, otherwise known as 'I had to do it, so everyone
should.' Contrary to what many pro-coders want to believe, the ability
to learn morse code has very little to do with higher intelligence. In
fact it can be argued that there may be a reverse relationship. It's
not
unusual for very intelligent people to find it harder to learn certain
skills, which are easier for those of average intelligence. Learning
morse code may be an example of this. I've known people who were very
good at code but were lost when it came to understanding complex
subjects requiring a higher level of reasoning. IOW- the ability to
learn morse code is not a valid IQ test.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

(John S.) wrote in message

If the gatekeepers are going to reverse the declining trends in the
amateur radio hobby they are going to have to find new ways to attract
younger members.

It will never happen, and has nothing to do with the code tests, or
anything else. Ham radio is getting to be old hat, and fairly boring.
It will NEVER see the glory days it once did. Dropping the code tests
will not have a bit of effect on that. They sure haven't so far. You
see a quick rush at first, but most get bored and slowly fade out.
Being mainly a highly technical hobby, it was never meant to be for
everyone. And I have no problems with that. When I can do a highly
accurate simulation of flying a B737, or Lear 31a, or about anything
else you want to fly, on my computer, talking to people on radio, that
was invented 100 years ago, starts to look fairly boring. Being I've
been a licensed ham 26 years, and a SWL since I was 7, I'm about
burned out on it anyway. I built my first 40m transmitter when I was
in the 8th grade. To me, it feels like I've been a ham nearly all my
life, and I'm not 50 yet. Just flight simulation alone has greatly
diminished the amount of time I spend on amateur radio. And it's been
that way since 1992. MK