"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...
JEP wrote:

Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST.

That'll show 'em...

Dave K8MN

I bet it will Dave....maybe they should cut off their noses also, eh?

Dan/W4NTI

Good points....now allow me to add some from the other side.

No, lets make it just one.

Know many new guys that DONT KNOW IT ALL?

Dan/W4NTI

"JEP" wrote in message
om...
Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes
you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data,
I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See
all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing
nothing? is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Are new
folks welcomed? Is help provided?
If so then consider yourself lucky.



"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"JEP" wrote in message
om...
Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to
belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc.

Can you "just buy" the magazines of AARP, NRA, AAA, etc.
without joining? I am always amazed at people that want the "benefits"
of an organization's efforts, in this case the publication, but don't
want
to support the organization by joining. I see the same thing at times
in the antique car hobby. People that bitch about the club rules
at a car show, or otherwise want technical help from club officials
but won't part with the few bucks it takes to join.

I just want to read their
magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it
every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some
clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have
a short time left as the active Ham population lessens.

Is it lessening? News to me.

If they took a
real survey as to how many real active ham there are they would find
the number far less than they think. I'm not talking about members,
I'm talking about HAMS that really use a radio to transmit a signal.
Doesnt matter what band. How many transmit a signal at least once a
week? Most don't.

Please provide your survey data.

Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them
up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in
general. New folks are never there. Ya I know about your Skywarn in
Flint, MI. Great service! Could be run on CB, NEXTEL, GMRS.

Could be but isn't...there in lies the difference.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"JEP" wrote in message
om...
Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...
"JEP" wrote in message
om...
Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to
belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. I just want to read their
magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it
every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some
clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have
a short time left as the active Ham population lessens.

Well then you can't expect the magazine to be sold at outlets when you
only
buy it once in a while. They've got to recoup the costs of printing and
distributing and the "once in a while" buyer just doesn't provide that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Gee ...

I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me
membership
solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit)

The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a
biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of
marital
harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on,
I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...)

The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much
less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with
roadside assistance.

Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess.

However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences
with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio,
and their member services and publications are also valuable.

All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining
membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years
ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of
my
policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.)

However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and
the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I
finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences
from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span
from
now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent
them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat.

I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the
current
dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested
in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the
good things
that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or
every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more
right than
wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I
disagree with.

--
Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c
Grid Square FN20fm
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c
------------------------------------------------------
NCI-1052
Executive Director, No Code International
Fellow, The Radio Club of America
Senior Member, IEEE
Member, IEEE Standards Association
Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group
Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee
Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee
Member, QCWA (31424)
Life Member, ARRL
Member, TAPR
------------------------------------------------------
Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century.
Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio.
http://www.nocode.org

I can't understand how

JEP wrote:

Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them
up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in
general. New folks are never there.

From reading your posts, I think you would fit right in with a club
like that, JEP.

- Mike KB3EIA -

JEP wrote:

Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes
you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data,
I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See
all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing
nothing?

Nope.

is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's?

Better. I just posted some pix on our website, from FD in 1968. My
guess is we have about three times the number as we did then.

Are new folks welcomed?

Yup. During the day, I do no operating at all, just control op the GOTA
station and talk to new people when any show up. And we have new people
show up.

Is help provided?

Of course
If so then consider yourself lucky.

Yeah, lucky enough. If you want, you can bitch about the ARS. Or you
could do something about it.

Or are you one of those hams you bitch about in a previous message?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dave Heil wrote:


I don't know about lucky. Fortunate, maybe, that my experience over
forty years in amateur radio hasn't been the unpleasant one you've
obviously been forced to endure.

Do you think this guy would by any chance be Vipul, Dave? Has that same
sort of pro-ham attitude, eh?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

"JEP" wrote in message
om...

Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message

igy.com...

"JEP" wrote in message
e.com...

Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to
belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. I just want to read their
magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it
every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some
clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have
a short time left as the active Ham population lessens.

Well then you can't expect the magazine to be sold at outlets when you

only

buy it once in a while. They've got to recoup the costs of printing and
distributing and the "once in a while" buyer just doesn't provide that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Gee ...

I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me
membership
solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit)

The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a
biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of
marital
harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on,
I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...)

The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much
less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with
roadside assistance.

Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess.

However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences
with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio,
and their member services and publications are also valuable.

All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining
membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years
ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of
my
policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.)

However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and
the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I
finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences
from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span
from
now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent
them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat.

I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the
current
dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested
in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the
good things
that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or
every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more
right than
wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I
disagree with.


Just like you should! I'm amazed by the number of hams that seem to
thing that the ARRL has to agree with all their personal opinions. I
wonder how many of those type are married! 8^)

I wonder how many of the priveliges we enjoy - and many take for
granted - in the ARS, would be around if not for the ARRL.

- Mike KB3EIA -

I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me
membership
solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit)

The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a
biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of
marital
harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on,
I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...)

The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much
less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with
roadside assistance.

Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess.

However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences
with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio,
and their member services and publications are also valuable.

All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining
membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years
ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of
my
policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.)

However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and
the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I
finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences
from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span
from
now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent
them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat.

I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the
current
dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested
in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the
good things
that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or
every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more
right than
wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I
disagree with.

--
Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c
Grid Square FN20fm
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c
------------------------------------------------------
NCI-1052
Executive Director, No Code International
Fellow, The Radio Club of America
Senior Member, IEEE
Member, IEEE Standards Association
Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group
Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee
Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee
Member, QCWA (31424)
Life Member, ARRL
Member, TAPR
------------------------------------------------------
Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century.
Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio.
http://www.nocode.org

I can't understand how

Your SIG says it all. An EXTRA in NO CODE INTERNATIONAL? I see you
are a joiner. The more you belong to the better it is.

Help insure the survival and prosperity of ham radio? I think not.
Insure the life of the ARRL and manufacturers? YES! No code is killing
ham radio. See you on channel 22 good buddy.

"JEP" wrote in message
om...


"JEP" snipped the headers - I said the stuff below that's prefaced with "
"

I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me
membership
solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit)

The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL
is a
biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of
marital
harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going
on,
I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...)

The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much
less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with
roadside assistance.

Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess.

However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences
with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio,
and their member services and publications are also valuable.

All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by
maintaining
membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member
years
ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted
because of
my
policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.)

However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams),
and
the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I
finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy
differences
from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life
span
from
now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also
sent
them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat.

I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the
current
dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY
interested
in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the
good things
that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or
every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more
right than
wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I
disagree with.

--
Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c
Grid Square FN20fm
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c
------------------------------------------------------
NCI-1052
Executive Director, No Code International
Fellow, The Radio Club of America
Senior Member, IEEE
Member, IEEE Standards Association
Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group
Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee
Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee
Member, QCWA (31424)
Life Member, ARRL
Member, TAPR
------------------------------------------------------
Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century.
Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio.
http://www.nocode.org


Your SIG says it all. An EXTRA in NO CODE INTERNATIONAL?

Most of the NCI Directors are extras, of their national equivalent thereof.
One has DXCC CW only. What's your point?

I see you are a joiner. The more you belong to the better it is.

I am ACTIVE in the things I've listed, except for TAPR. I am into
digital communications but have not been active in TAPR projects
for a number of reasons. However, I am VERY active in all of the
others. (I didn't list my local club/RACES/ARES ...) So, it's not a
"the more you belong to the better it is" thing. What's your point?

Help insure the survival and prosperity of ham radio? I think not.
Insure the life of the ARRL and manufacturers? YES! No code is killing
ham radio.

Were it not for the no-code tech license since 1990, I'd bet we'd have
about 1/2 the number of licensed hams in the US that we have now.
(and commercial interests would be better positioned to take some of
our prime spectrum for lack of use)
So, how is no code "killing ham radio" ???

See you on channel 22 good buddy.

Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to talk to on your favorite
frequency.
I don't have any equipment that will transmit there. (But I do have 3 rigs
that cover all of the amateur bands (except the 5 channels at 5 MHz) from
160m-70cm, all modes, and can be run without AC mains power - main station
rig, mobile (I'm in the process of installing that rig in a new vehicle),
and a QRP
station I use for backpack/travel use.)

How many (ham band) rigs do you have? Can you run for extended periods
(weeks or more, if need be) without commercial power? How active and
well-prepared are you?

Oh, you're just trolling? That's become abundantly clear ... why not try
another stream? I think the bites are about to dry up here.

Carl - wk3c

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"JEP" wrote in message
om...
Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST.
[snip] However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences
with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio,
and their member services and publications are also valuable.

All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining
membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member
years
ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because
of
my
policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.)

However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and
the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I
finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences
from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life
span
from
now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also
sent
them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat.

I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the
current
dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY
interested
in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the
good things
that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or
every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more
right than
wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I
disagree with.

--
Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c
Grid Square FN20fm
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c

Exactly. Working from within is generally the most effective way to bring
about real, long-term change. However too many other people just want to be
back seat drivers or focus on a single policy they don't like and "throw out
the baby with the bathwater" so to speak.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE