"RHF" wrote in message
om...
= = = "Dave"
= = = wrote in message ...

Hmm. Okay. Only I don't have much outside space available.
I *might* be able to manage 20-30 feet of random wire, but
that is about it.


=R= Assuming that his is NOT a Metal Fence.


It is a metal fence. Chain-link. I didn't think that was a very likely
answer to my problems.


Another: [Hidden] "On-the-Fence" Random Wire Antenna

HOW TO: Use a short section of Fence for a
Low Level "Folded" Random Wire Antenna.

* Run a Coax Cable out to the Bottom of the Fence.
(Can be TV type 75 Ohm Coax Cable)

* Install a Ground Rod / Ground Wire HERE.
(If you have a Metal Fence Post Anchors ?
Use One as the Ground Point.)

* Use a Matching Transformer to connect the Antenna Element
to the Coax Cable.
(This can be a TV type 30075 Ohm Matching Transformer.

* Route the "WIRE" (Antenna Element) from the Starting-End of
the Fence; about one foot above and paralell to the ground to
the Far-End of the Fence.
* * Then go "UP" Vertically for about a foot.
* * Next route the Wire parallel to the ground; back to the
Starting-End of the Fence.
* * Then go "UP" Vertically for about a foot.
* * Next route the Wire parallel to the ground; back to the
Far-End of the Fence.
* * Then go "UP" Vertically for about a foot.
* * Next route the Wire parallel to the ground; back to the
Starting-End of the Fence.
* * Then go "UP" Vertically for about a foot.
* * Next route the Wire parallel to the ground; back to the
Far-End of the Fence.
= = = 100Ft - 150Ft Random Wire Antenna
(5 X 20Ft = 100Ft -&- 5 X 30Ft = 150Ft)

Sorta - Looka - Lika - Diz:
_____________________________x
|____________________________
_____________________________|
|____________________________
===MT________________________|
...G.........................

.
.
And I have more than a mile of small-guage wire on these two
spools. I was planning on wrapping it around a five-foot long
piece of 4 inch PVC and standing it behind a closet door.

=R= Better to wrap the wire Length-Wise 'inside & out'
(over and through) the PVC Pipe with about 1" spacing.
This would be about 120 Ft of wire in a vertical format.

.

I'm not sure how I could do that, at least with my 5-foot piece of PVC. Any
ideas?


.
Since my last last message I tried a very crude "hook-up" with
one of the spools of wire and got absolutely no improvement
in reception. Now I understand why, thanks to you good people.

Back to the 20-30' piece of random wi my only option is to
run it out the window and along the top rail of the fence in
the back yard. Would this really outdo a massive broomstick
antenna ?


=R= ? QUESTION ? "Top Rail" Is this a Metal Fence ?

.
.
Thanks for the input. You've all got me thinking.

Dave




iane ~ RHF

.

.

Dave

"Joe Strain" wrote in message
om...
The currrent in the wire produces an electromagnetic field which has a
defined radius.


The field coil of a motor is used to turn it into a magnet so the motor
will
work...stretch out the windings, no emf imposed upon the core..no
magnet-action-no work


Stretch it out, you exceed the radius of the electromagnetic field, no
interaction, no function.

The whole purpose of the antenna in coil-structure is to use the induced
emf
to create a load on the antenna so it "thinks" it is longer

Yodar


Read this a couple days ago, and am still trying to wrap my brain around it.
Will try to reply in more depth 12/25 or 12/26

Dave




"Dave" wrote in message
...
I just got through picking up a ton of discontinued wire from my local
Home
Depot, and was planning on building a "broomstick" antenna like some I
found
described on the net. Got a question though: doesn't "stretching out"
the
coil to a meter or more reduce the inductance of the resulting coil?
Why
wouldn't it work better to just leave it on the spool? I was under the
impression that the formula for calculating the inductance for a given
coil
involved multiplying the square of the number of coils by the ratio of
the
coil width to length. Wouldn't this mean that a "longer" coil would
have
a
lower inductance than a "shorter" coil, given the same length of wire
and
approximate diameter of coils?

Forgive me if I'm being stupid here, it has been twenty years since I
have
attempted anything like this, but that was what I thought.

The main account I am thinking of was related by someone in Saudi Arabia
who
wrapped 1.2 kM of wire around a piece of PVC and vastly improved their
reception of WWV in the states. I was going to do something similar,
and
then looked at the two spools of wire that I was about to unwrap. They
are
already coils, so shouldn't I be able to just hook them up to an
aligator
clip and stick this to my whip antenna? (I am now thinking about taking
the
wire off of the smaller spool and adding it to the larger. Shouldn't
that
work?) And if I leave the wire on the spools (which are plastic)
couldn't
I
turn them toward or away from the station of interest to further improve
reception? (I could even put this in my attic, gaining a few feet of
elevation and hiding it from my unappreciative wife.)

Any input on any part of this idea is more than welcome. I would greaty
value the opinions of those who have actually done something like one of
these two options.

Thanks,

Dave

Thanks for the links. The website for the first four was where I got my
original information, but I couldn't remember where it was. I appreciate
it.

Thanks also for hte Yahoo link. I'm going to check that out.

Dave


"RHF" wrote in message
om...
DAVE,

Concerning the BroomStick Antenna:
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../bromstik.html
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx...al/broom2.html
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../tunestik.html
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../tunstik2.html

IIRC: The 1.2kM of wire was wrapped on a piece of PVC Pipe
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx...al/broom3.html
- - - "improved model is 6 m (18Ft) of 4 Inch OD PVC"
(Section of Well Lining that was over 18 Foot Long.)
= = = Effectively a 18 Foot Vertical Antenna.
"I mounted the 6 m (18Ft) portion vertically, and the 2.5 m (7.5 Ft)
section horizontally (a "reverted "L"" system). I added in my 250 m
(750 Ft) Random Long Wire (it was there, so why not use it?), grounded
the thing and in great anticipation, plugged it into the radio.
- - - The results were more than amazing." - by Marty Leipzig

HELLO! Forget the BroomStick [.]
TBL: This Guy had a 750 Ft Random Wire Antenna !

When your 'think' of a Broom Stick Antenna that has a size small
wire tightly wrapped along a length of PVC Pipe. Just consider
the piece of PVC Pipe an equal section of Aluminum Tubing; and
not much more.

Better to try a Eight Foot Section of 2"-3" PVC Pipe with a
single wire wrapped in three coils on it.
* Use a 500 Foot Spool of #14 AWG Insulated 19 Stranded Wire.
* Each "Coil" set to resonate at a different band of your choice.
* Each "Coil" spaced 1'-2' apart on the PVC Pipe.

IMHO: The BrommStick Antenna is a 'good idea' for Apartment
Residents stuck with a single outside facing window.
- - - Been There, Done That !

REMEMBER: The ANTENNA + GROUND SYSTEM is . . .
55.5% of the Radio/Receiver and Antenna+Ground Reception Equation.
GoTo= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM...na/message/288

All are WELCOME at this "Antenna Ashram"
+ Who Seek Better Reception
+ + And a Clear Understanding
+ + + From That Which Transcends the Ether and Beyond.

WHE "SWL Antennas and AM & FM Antennas" eGroup on YAHOO !
- When You NEED to Contemplate the
- - "Aerial High" and the
- - - "True Meaning of Ground".


iane ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Dave"
= = = wrote in message ...
I just got through picking up a ton of discontinued wire from my local
Home
Depot, and was planning on building a "broomstick" antenna like some I
found
described on the net. Got a question though: doesn't "stretching out"
the
coil to a meter or more reduce the inductance of the resulting coil?
Why
wouldn't it work better to just leave it on the spool? I was under the
impression that the formula for calculating the inductance for a given
coil
involved multiplying the square of the number of coils by the ratio of
the
coil width to length. Wouldn't this mean that a "longer" coil would
have a
lower inductance than a "shorter" coil, given the same length of wire
and
approximate diameter of coils?

Forgive me if I'm being stupid here, it has been twenty years since I
have
attempted anything like this, but that was what I thought.

The main account I am thinking of was related by someone in Saudi Arabia
who
wrapped 1.2 kM of wire around a piece of PVC and vastly improved their
reception of WWV in the states. I was going to do something similar,
and
then looked at the two spools of wire that I was about to unwrap. They
are
already coils, so shouldn't I be able to just hook them up to an
aligator
clip and stick this to my whip antenna? (I am now thinking about taking
the
wire off of the smaller spool and adding it to the larger. Shouldn't
that
work?) And if I leave the wire on the spools (which are plastic)
couldn't I
turn them toward or away from the station of interest to further improve
reception? (I could even put this in my attic, gaining a few feet of
elevation and hiding it from my unappreciative wife.)

Any input on any part of this idea is more than welcome. I would greaty
value the opinions of those who have actually done something like one of
these two options.

Thanks,

Dave


.

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dale Parfitt" wrote:

"donutbandit" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote in
:

I just got through picking up a ton of discontinued wire from my
local Home Depot, and was planning on building a "broomstick"
antenna like some I found described on the net.

I built one. I was quite disappointed after reading all the hype.

I get better reception from a wire run around the corners of my
bedroom ceiling.

I would not anticipate the broomstick antenna to be any different than
a metal tube or rod of similar dimensions.

Good comparison. A tightly wound broomstick would resemble a rod for
receiving purposes.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Still true, even if each turn of wire is insulated from those adjacent to
it? How could that be?

Thanks,

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...

The roof is wood with asphalt shingles. But the attic is only about three
feet tall (see my reply to diverd4777). With extreme difficulty one can
get
from one side of the house to the other through the attic, but trying to
do
this while carrying something is next to impossible. Is that what you are
asking about, about the crown? Height, in the attic? If not please let
me
know.


The crown of the roof is the pointed top (outside).

^ === crown
/ \
| |

Dave wrote:

It is a metal fence. Chain-link. I didn't think that was a very likely
answer to my problems.

I'd be curious as to why running a wire along a metal fence would be
such a problem. I just ran about 200 feet of wire along the top of a
wire fence (2 inch square openings), albeit the type that is covered
with some green vinyl. And I have noticed CONSIDERABLE improvement in
reception. Wouldn't attaching to so much metal just help to expand the
range of the antenna?

Also, related to the metal fence thing: what would happen were I to
attach a wire to my metal roof?

And as long as we're on the subject of random wire, what's the deal with
needing "stranded" wire. I had about 100 feet of that first, and then
when I went to buy some more all they had was single strand, so I bought
that and just added that to the end of the stranded. what's the
importance/need of using stranded?

av

AV wrote:

Dave wrote:

It is a metal fence. Chain-link. I didn't think that was a very likely
answer to my problems.

I'd be curious as to why running a wire along a metal fence would be
such a problem. I just ran about 200 feet of wire along the top of a
wire fence (2 inch square openings), albeit the type that is covered
with some green vinyl. And I have noticed CONSIDERABLE improvement in
reception. Wouldn't attaching to so much metal just help to expand the
range of the antenna?

Also, related to the metal fence thing: what would happen were I to
attach a wire to my metal roof?

And as long as we're on the subject of random wire, what's the deal with
needing "stranded" wire. I had about 100 feet of that first, and then
when I went to buy some more all they had was single strand, so I bought
that and just added that to the end of the stranded. what's the
importance/need of using stranded?

av


As far as ability to pick up RF signal, I'm not aware that there *is*
a bit of difference. Stranded is a bit stronger, perhaps, but if anyone
ever told you you "had" to use stranded for antenna wire, I'd be
intersted in hearing their justification for that.

Tony


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

TM,

Antennas - WHY - Stranded Wire is a 'little' Better.

1. More Flexible and Less Breakage.

2. If you use a Single Strand (1) type Wire.
When the One Strand Breaks the Wire Has Failed.

3. If you use a Multi-Stranded (19) type Wire.
When the One to Three Strands Breaks the Wire Has NOT Failed;
and you still have a Wire that would be rated at about 85%.
NOTE: Nineteen Stranded Wire has a Single Strand;
that is Surounded by Six Strands (Optimum Re-inforcement);
that is Surounded by Twelve Strands (Optimum Re-inforcement);
{Like A Bridge Support Cable}
Then Covered by Insulation.

4. IIRC: For the same AWG Size Wire the Stranded Wire is
Rated as Stronger and Lighter then the Single Strand Wire.

5. RF Wise - Multi-Strand Wire has more Surface Area for RF to
Travel On. So specialty Antenna Wires like
* "QuietFlex" (41 Strand @ #14 AWG)
* "Flex-Weave" (168 Strands @ #14 AWG)
Can Actually (In-Fact) make a' difference' in your Reception.

? NOW ? IS ? ANY ? OF ? THIS ? TRUE ?

REMEMBER: The Antenna & Ground System is 55.5% of the
Radio/Receiver and Antenna/Ground Reception Equation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM...na/message/288

WHE "SWL Antennas and AM & FM Antennas" eGroup on YAHOO !
- When You NEED to Contemplate the
- - "Aerial High" and the
- - - "True Meaning of Ground".

iane ~ RHF
All are WELCOME at this "Antenna Ashram"
+ Who Seek Better Reception
+ + And a Clear Understanding
+ + + From That Which Transcends the Ether and Beyond.
..
..
= = = Tony Meloche
= = = wrote in message ...
AV wrote:

Dave wrote:

It is a metal fence. Chain-link. I didn't think that
was a very likely answer to my problems.

I'd be curious as to why running a wire along a metal
fence would be such a problem. I just ran about 200
feet of wire along the top of a wire fence (2 inch
square openings), albeit the type that is covered
with some green vinyl. And I have noticed CONSIDERABLE
improvement in reception. Wouldn't attaching to so
much metal just help to expand the range of the antenna?

Also, related to the metal fence thing: what would
happen were I to attach a wire to my metal roof?

And as long as we're on the subject of random wire,
what's the deal with needing "stranded" wire. I had
about 100 feet of that first, and then when I went
to buy some more all they had was single strand, so
I bought that and just added that to the end of the
stranded. what's the importance/need of using stranded?

av


As far as ability to pick up RF signal, I'm not aware
that there *is* a bit of difference. Stranded is a
bit stronger, perhaps, but if anyone ever told you you
"had" to use stranded for antenna wire, I'd be
intersted in hearing their justification for that.

Tony


..

RHF wrote:

? NOW ? IS ? ANY ? OF ? THIS ? TRUE ?

.

sounds pretty plausible to me, but then i'm the one who asked the
question, and i'm a fairly gullible person.

as for the strength question, multi-strand didn't withstand an avalanche
of snow coming off the roof and breaking it, nor did it withstand my
puppy biting it into a few pieces. i kinda doubt there is really too
much difference in strength. the fact that stranded allows for the
breakage of one strand while leaving the others intact, but just the
same, those single threads are thinner and more likely to break in the
first place!

as for surface area, that sounds plausible, but then that brings it back
to the metal fence question. if it's surface area you want, then why the
warning not to lay a random wire along a metal fence. wouldn't the fence
be helpful in reception and pass things along into the wire?

av

DAVE,

Understanding the "BroomStick" Antenna and its Coil.
= WHY = Three Shorter Coils may Work Better then One Long Coil.

First: Lets take a Eight Foot (8Ft) piece of One Inch (1") Outside
Diameter (OD) PVC Pipe. (This is our BroomStick Antenna "FORM".)

Second: Take a Single piece of #14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
and stretch it out along the length of the PVC Pipe.
What Do We Have? A Vertical Antenna Element - That happens to
be 1/4 of a Wave Length (WL) in the range of 31 MHz.

Third: Take a Single piece of #14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
and stretch it out along the length of the PVC Pipe and form a
Coil of 11 Turns (about 1") at the Bottom. What Do We Have?
A "LOADED" Vertical Antenna Element - That happens to act like
1/4 of a Wave Length (WL) in the range of 10 MHz.

Fourth: Take a Single piece of #14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
and stretch it out along the length of the PVC Pipe and form a
Coil of 66 Turns (about 6") at the Bottom. What Do We Have?
A "LOADED" Vertical Antenna Element - That happens to act like
1/4 of a Wave Length (WL) in the range of 1 MHz.

Fifth: Take a Single piece of #14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
and stretch it out along the length of the PVC Pipe and form a
Coil of 460 Turns (about 2Ft) at the Bottom. What Do We Have?
A "LOADED" Vertical Antenna Element - That happens to act like
1/4 of a Wave Length (WL) for about 100 kHz.

CONCLUSION: The Conclusion That We Must Draw From The Above Is:
That the common BroomStick Antenna that has wire closely wound
on a piece of PVC Pipe to FORM a Coil of 3Ft, 5Ft, or all of
the 8Ft; must be resonant well below 100 kHz.

THEREFO Therefore for 31 MHz, 10 MHz, 1MHz and anything
in-between: The BroomStick Antenna simply looks effectively like
a 1/4 WL Antenna Element that works so-so in the range of 31 MHz.
= = = Effectively like a 1" Copper Pipe.

BETTER: The Better Alternative is to Start over by taking a
Eight Foot (8Ft) piece of One Inch (1") Outside Diameter (OD)
PVC Pipe. (This is our BroomStick Antenna "FORM".)
Next, take a single piece of #14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
and wrap three coils on the PVC Pipe.

* "Concerning the BroomStick Antenna" Read Message #410
GoTo= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM...na/message/410

* "Image of Tri-Band 'BroomStick' Antenna"
GoTo= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM...na/message/412

PHOTOS Section: Image "BroomStick Antenna Tri-Band"
GoTo= http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...FM-Antenna/lst


iane ~ RHF
..
..
= = = "Dave"
= = = wrote in message ...
"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dale Parfitt" wrote:

"donutbandit" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote in
:

I just got through picking up a ton of discontinued wire from my
local Home Depot, and was planning on building a "broomstick"
antenna like some I found described on the net.

I built one. I was quite disappointed after reading all the hype.

I get better reception from a wire run around the corners of my
bedroom ceiling.

I would not anticipate the broomstick antenna to be any different
than a metal tube or rod of similar dimensions.

Good comparison. A tightly wound broomstick would resemble a
rod for receiving purposes.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Still true, even if each turn of wire is insulated from those
adjacent to it? How could that be?

Thanks,

Dave



..